Bully AME
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Isle of Man
Bully AME
A friend is starting his aviation journey. He was told to get a medical, but where we live we have no AME's, we have to travel to UK to get them . I took said friend on a flight to Guernsey so he could see flying without the constant instructing, and could ask questions. I told him to find an AME anywhere on the west side of UK so we could drop in o the way home and he could get his medical. We dropped into Hawarden. No names , no pack drill but that AME is a bully. First thing he said when friend went into his office " If you have lied on your form, you can get a £10,000 fine or jail . Friend mentioned something that there was nowhere on the form to put anything, well that was a "lie" so the threats started. He also mentioned that he had a small ( 1 inch diameter) bruise on his arm from an accident. He was told he had to get a full eye test from an optician (??) and also he had to have a flight test with a flight instructor , not his own instructor , one chosen by this AME, to check that he could egress the aircraft . This was because of a small bruise on his arm. There is only one instructor where we live, so Friend had to travel to UK to this "designated" instructor to prove he could get in and out of an aircraft.
This AME is absolutely diabolical, a bully and should lose his AME privileges.
Anyone else come across this person?
This AME is absolutely diabolical, a bully and should lose his AME privileges.
Anyone else come across this person?
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: All Over
A friend is starting his aviation journey. He was told to get a medical, but where we live we have no AME's, we have to travel to UK to get them . I took said friend on a flight to Guernsey so he could see flying without the constant instructing, and could ask questions. I told him to find an AME anywhere on the west side of UK so we could drop in o the way home and he could get his medical. We dropped into Hawarden. No names , no pack drill but that AME is a bully. First thing he said when friend went into his office " If you have lied on your form, you can get a £10,000 fine or jail . Friend mentioned something that there was nowhere on the form to put anything, well that was a "lie" so the threats started. He also mentioned that he had a small ( 1 inch diameter) bruise on his arm from an accident. He was told he had to get a full eye test from an optician (??) and also he had to have a flight test with a flight instructor , not his own instructor , one chosen by this AME, to check that he could egress the aircraft . This was because of a small bruise on his arm. There is only one instructor where we live, so Friend had to travel to UK to this "designated" instructor to prove he could get in and out of an aircraft.
This AME is absolutely diabolical, a bully and should lose his AME privileges.
Anyone else come across this person?
This AME is absolutely diabolical, a bully and should lose his AME privileges.
Anyone else come across this person?
Joined: Nov 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,139
Likes: 740
From: UK
I hope you are both going to report this AME in writing to the CAA.
You both need to do this, because there is no place for such bullying arseholes in aviation. Not any more.
You both need to do this, because there is no place for such bullying arseholes in aviation. Not any more.
Joined: Feb 2015
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 1,758
Likes: 358
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
This individual has no place in either Aviation or Medicine. You would be doing those worlds a tremendous service by reporting this aberrant behavior, ManxLadybird.
- Ed
- Ed
Joined: Aug 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 816
Likes: 230
From: Cyprus
Quite a few around and,yes, envy is the bottom line.
Went head to head with one, many years back. Wondered why he was so offensive. Later, in some article, somewhere, he was all over the place in his rayband aviators, Boss headset, LHS of something minor, telling the world what he did when off the AME chair..
Another one, took one look at me in my leopard-skin speedos, proud to have starved myself down from 12 stone to 10.5 (fighting weight for NASA Space Cadet programme for my height was 11st-3ilbs) and he smirked ;"Ooooh, bangin on the beef !".
Oh. Can't stop. Another, close relative, actually, was very proud of having been approved for his AME. Told me it was going to be fun checking out female Cabin Crew Applicants once attached to an airline.
Yes, Report them. Get them out of the system. Spoiling it for the really excellent majority who keep us airborne.
Went head to head with one, many years back. Wondered why he was so offensive. Later, in some article, somewhere, he was all over the place in his rayband aviators, Boss headset, LHS of something minor, telling the world what he did when off the AME chair..
Another one, took one look at me in my leopard-skin speedos, proud to have starved myself down from 12 stone to 10.5 (fighting weight for NASA Space Cadet programme for my height was 11st-3ilbs) and he smirked ;"Ooooh, bangin on the beef !".
Oh. Can't stop. Another, close relative, actually, was very proud of having been approved for his AME. Told me it was going to be fun checking out female Cabin Crew Applicants once attached to an airline.
Yes, Report them. Get them out of the system. Spoiling it for the really excellent majority who keep us airborne.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 468
Likes: 6
From: UK
All UK AME's are also required to be registered I believe, as a professional with the UK GMC - with that in mind and if unable to resolve at a personal or clinic level - then a complaint can be considered/registered using the link below.
https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-...ng-on-concerns
Although very rare, there seem to be still one or two AME's that have personality traits not conducive to the role they are undertaking. Be aware (IMHO) of ones that like to "refer you to my good friend Dr. XYZABC" for further medical investigative matters that they deem as required - a 'red flag' moment personally if that comes up! referrals are of course required and necessary at times but it is a case of 'buyer beware!', and you have the freedom to ask for a second opinion etc. Luckily I have a brilliant AME now and an excellent AME is worth their weight in gold.
Of consideration (and admittedly I've not done this myself) a friend in the past suggested - when considering a new AME it's always worth asking to book an appointment to essentially 'interview' them for the role as your chosen service provider (and it is a 'service' remember, regardless of medical requirements!). There are plenty of UK AME's to choose from and you are the paying customer, whether approved AME, or even the (UK) CAA.
https://www.gmc-uk.org/professional-...ng-on-concerns
Although very rare, there seem to be still one or two AME's that have personality traits not conducive to the role they are undertaking. Be aware (IMHO) of ones that like to "refer you to my good friend Dr. XYZABC" for further medical investigative matters that they deem as required - a 'red flag' moment personally if that comes up! referrals are of course required and necessary at times but it is a case of 'buyer beware!', and you have the freedom to ask for a second opinion etc. Luckily I have a brilliant AME now and an excellent AME is worth their weight in gold.
Of consideration (and admittedly I've not done this myself) a friend in the past suggested - when considering a new AME it's always worth asking to book an appointment to essentially 'interview' them for the role as your chosen service provider (and it is a 'service' remember, regardless of medical requirements!). There are plenty of UK AME's to choose from and you are the paying customer, whether approved AME, or even the (UK) CAA.
Joined: Nov 2012
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 14
Likes: 4
From: Orkney
I don't think the GMC would get involved in these cases mentioned here. The CAA would be a better bet for any complaints.
https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/supp...h-your-concern
"We can usually only investigate concerns about:
serious or repeated mistakes in patient care
abuse of professional position, for example, an improper sexual relationship with a patient
violence, indecency or sexual assault
a serious criminal offence
discrimination against patients, colleagues or others
fraud or dishonesty
if a doctor, PA or AA’s health affects their practice or conduct
serious concerns about a doctor, PA or AA’s ability to communicate in English."
"Some of the things we don’t investigate include:
minor clinical errors
rudeness
disagreements over a diagnosis and medical reports
concerns about other healthcare professionals
waiting lists and access to appointments
upkeep and condition of hospitals and practices."
https://www.gmc-uk.org/concerns/supp...h-your-concern
"We can usually only investigate concerns about:
serious or repeated mistakes in patient care
abuse of professional position, for example, an improper sexual relationship with a patient
violence, indecency or sexual assault
a serious criminal offence
discrimination against patients, colleagues or others
fraud or dishonesty
if a doctor, PA or AA’s health affects their practice or conduct
serious concerns about a doctor, PA or AA’s ability to communicate in English."
"Some of the things we don’t investigate include:
minor clinical errors
rudeness
disagreements over a diagnosis and medical reports
concerns about other healthcare professionals
waiting lists and access to appointments
upkeep and condition of hospitals and practices."
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 842
Likes: 104
From: Kiwiland
Getting reported to the GMC is a bodyblow and the issue will hang over the AME for years. IMHO he seems to lack insight and is aggressive. I would suggest everyone who feels aggrieved should simply write to the CAA, including any concerns of over officious medical decisions. The CAA does care and will feed back to their employee. Hopefully he can step back and recognise he needs a change of attitude and move on.
Joined: Nov 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 512
Likes: 829
From: UK
During my Class 1 recently the AME also mentioned that lying on the form is a severe infraction which could lead to loss of licence and privileges.
It was quite a scary thought.
The AME is a straight down the line chap and although the message was stern, it is likely from the CAA. Probably a campaign, perhaps after a spate of dishonest medical submissions that they want to crack down on.
Although I was able to read the bottom line of the eye test, he said I should also get my eyes tested, because if I failed the test next year, I could again be grounded until the issue is resolved and I would have to pay for a re-test.
So perhaps your AME lacks interpersonal skills, but there may be a CAA reason behind this.
It was quite a scary thought.
The AME is a straight down the line chap and although the message was stern, it is likely from the CAA. Probably a campaign, perhaps after a spate of dishonest medical submissions that they want to crack down on.
Although I was able to read the bottom line of the eye test, he said I should also get my eyes tested, because if I failed the test next year, I could again be grounded until the issue is resolved and I would have to pay for a re-test.
So perhaps your AME lacks interpersonal skills, but there may be a CAA reason behind this.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 350
Likes: 147
From: FL390
The lying on the form thing is an edict from the CAA. My own AME mentioned it to me, but told me that he'd been told to tell everyone he examines. I get the impression that the CAA is quite happy to assume that a moment of forgetfulness when filling in the form is a deliberate criminal action.
