Failed class 1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northamptonshire
Age: 43
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Failed class 1
Hello all,
I have just returned from Gatwick without the issue of my class 1 medical certificate. Everything was fine in all the tests carried out and would have been signed off if it wasn't for the final calculation of my BMI done by the doctor. She told me that if it was down to her she would pass me with no issues as I am athletic in build and fit as a flea, but her hands are tied as the CAA say automatic fail to any BMI over 35.
Just for clarification I am 5'7", 16st 10lb and have played rugby most of my life, recent body composition tests showed 24% body fat which is within what is considered to be normal range so I'm not a whingeing crisp and pie addict feeling hard done by
I have a letter from the chief instructor at one of the schools I have visited stating that he has flown with me and my size is no issue.
So the big questions are:
Who can I turn to to try and get some sense out of the CAA?
Is there an appeal process worth pusuing?
Has anyone else experienced this and what hoops need jumping through?
Many thanks in advance.
I have just returned from Gatwick without the issue of my class 1 medical certificate. Everything was fine in all the tests carried out and would have been signed off if it wasn't for the final calculation of my BMI done by the doctor. She told me that if it was down to her she would pass me with no issues as I am athletic in build and fit as a flea, but her hands are tied as the CAA say automatic fail to any BMI over 35.
Just for clarification I am 5'7", 16st 10lb and have played rugby most of my life, recent body composition tests showed 24% body fat which is within what is considered to be normal range so I'm not a whingeing crisp and pie addict feeling hard done by
I have a letter from the chief instructor at one of the schools I have visited stating that he has flown with me and my size is no issue.
So the big questions are:
Who can I turn to to try and get some sense out of the CAA?
Is there an appeal process worth pusuing?
Has anyone else experienced this and what hoops need jumping through?
Many thanks in advance.
Last edited by JoshG; 9th Oct 2013 at 13:31.
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: In a hole somewhere
Age: 46
Posts: 378
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Failed class 1
Probably not worth it.
Their rules are as stupid as the police government etc etc
Im the same as you, i have been told im "technically obese" yeah but how much fat?
Muscle weighs more than fat but docs are still going on charts from the bloody 50's when men weighed as much as women do now. ( No offence to anyone in that age group)
Their rules are as stupid as the police government etc etc
Im the same as you, i have been told im "technically obese" yeah but how much fat?
Muscle weighs more than fat but docs are still going on charts from the bloody 50's when men weighed as much as women do now. ( No offence to anyone in that age group)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: quintesential little englander lost in a vacuum of post aviation bewilderment
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JOSHG;
So the big questions are:
Who can I turn to to try and get some sense out of the CAA?
A THANKLESS TASK I FEAR.
So the big questions are:
Who can I turn to to try and get some sense out of the CAA?
A THANKLESS TASK I FEAR.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northamptonshire
Age: 43
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please refer to my original post, my body fat mass is within normal limits and being "fat" is not the issue, my build and the subsequent inaccuracy of the BMI scale is the issue. Even if I was to be at zero body fat I would still be classed as obese and the same problem would exist.
Está servira para distraerle.
Make sure you get a letter or some such piece of paperwork from the CAA stating that you've lost your medical purely on the grounds of weight/obesity.
This will enable you to qualify any box you might have to tick in the future which answers the question as to whether you've ever failed a medical.
Then go and lose some weight, perhaps 10 Kgs or three month's dieting?
You could of course just go and sit on a couch for ten weeks or so and let the muscle turn to fat?
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/bmi_tbl.pdf
This will enable you to qualify any box you might have to tick in the future which answers the question as to whether you've ever failed a medical.
Then go and lose some weight, perhaps 10 Kgs or three month's dieting?
You could of course just go and sit on a couch for ten weeks or so and let the muscle turn to fat?
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/guidelines/obesity/bmi_tbl.pdf
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did the doctor in Gatwick calculate your body composition percentage or did she just directly calculated your BMI without taking into consideration your body composition percentage?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
Age: 77
Posts: 1,191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe, with your appeal, a suggestion,that if your appeal is not considered properly, a plaint to the European Court of human Rights, will be your next move
This would tie up a lot of their resources, trying to defend the indefensible
The big chiefs would be very upset at being enrolled , unknowingly, in the uphill -5h1t-kicker's club. the organisation would lose face among their international Peers.....all in all, they have made a mistake, their rule is outmoded and needs changing.
the button needs a good push in order to get someone in the ivory towers to kick some asses and do their job properly.
fight them, they don't like a 5h1t -storm, especially when it highlights their own failings.
This would tie up a lot of their resources, trying to defend the indefensible
The big chiefs would be very upset at being enrolled , unknowingly, in the uphill -5h1t-kicker's club. the organisation would lose face among their international Peers.....all in all, they have made a mistake, their rule is outmoded and needs changing.
the button needs a good push in order to get someone in the ivory towers to kick some asses and do their job properly.
fight them, they don't like a 5h1t -storm, especially when it highlights their own failings.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: yes
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sad outcome but predicable.
The trend is to have these, shall we say, "thin model types" in aircraft these days. Seems this cancer has hit FD personal now.
The ironic thing about this is, if you take up smoking, which has appetite suppression properties (apart from the obvious dangers), you would loose weight and pass your class one. I am sure any person with half a brain would realise the folly in this.
The trend is to have these, shall we say, "thin model types" in aircraft these days. Seems this cancer has hit FD personal now.
The ironic thing about this is, if you take up smoking, which has appetite suppression properties (apart from the obvious dangers), you would loose weight and pass your class one. I am sure any person with half a brain would realise the folly in this.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Offshore
Age: 73
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Josh..
Since you went to Gatwick, I take it that was for initial Class 1 medical.. Hopefully this disappointment has occurred before you've spent/wasted/invested a lot of money on training towards a professional licence.
Anyway, here are my thoughts ( please note that I spent many years on the aircrew selection and recruitment side and encountered many Class 1 issues similar to your own.)
1 Yes, there are grounds for appeal but you may well not be successful and it won't be resolved overnight.
2 Let's be brutal here... just take it on the chin..OK? Right, at 5'7" you're clearly built like the original brick s***house.. you're a very big guy and in a competitive interview/recruitment situation you are going to be remembered.. but for all the wrong reasons.
I'm sorry Josh, you'll be much better off by working to meet the CAA's BMI criteria than appealing their decision... and your career prospects will improve too.
Good luck and best wishes,
Anyway, here are my thoughts ( please note that I spent many years on the aircrew selection and recruitment side and encountered many Class 1 issues similar to your own.)
1 Yes, there are grounds for appeal but you may well not be successful and it won't be resolved overnight.
2 Let's be brutal here... just take it on the chin..OK? Right, at 5'7" you're clearly built like the original brick s***house.. you're a very big guy and in a competitive interview/recruitment situation you are going to be remembered.. but for all the wrong reasons.
I'm sorry Josh, you'll be much better off by working to meet the CAA's BMI criteria than appealing their decision... and your career prospects will improve too.
Good luck and best wishes,
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: yes
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
H. Norman Schwarzkopf, Gulf war one. He was big, beefy and had a presence. He had the look of a leader. He was a leader, with a brilliant mind.
Now, in a company your new recruits are one day, hopefully going to be Captains. Captains who will become leaders, not some skinny weasels who have no backbone and be yes men.
I look up to a leader and maybe look down on a weasel. I look up to a leader who can stand up to bulling management.
Maybe I'm old fashioned and a dinosaur.
Now, in a company your new recruits are one day, hopefully going to be Captains. Captains who will become leaders, not some skinny weasels who have no backbone and be yes men.
I look up to a leader and maybe look down on a weasel. I look up to a leader who can stand up to bulling management.
Maybe I'm old fashioned and a dinosaur.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Offshore
Age: 73
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes Don but..
H. Norman Schwarzkopf, Gulf war one. He was big, beefy and had a presence. He had the look of a leader. He was a leader, with a brilliant mind.
No-one ever offered Schwartzkopf a right-hand seat in an Aztec, Navajo or Citation etc... and for good reason.
Josh needs to look way beyond the issue of his Class 1 .. he needs to make himself suitable and attractive for every flying oportunity which may come his way... it's fiercely competitive out there.
On some aircraft, if you stick a 240 pound guy in the RHS you may have to leave a pax or some bags behind.. fact.
I still wish Josh the best of luck but at his age it's not going to be easy.
No-one ever offered Schwartzkopf a right-hand seat in an Aztec, Navajo or Citation etc... and for good reason.
Josh needs to look way beyond the issue of his Class 1 .. he needs to make himself suitable and attractive for every flying oportunity which may come his way... it's fiercely competitive out there.
On some aircraft, if you stick a 240 pound guy in the RHS you may have to leave a pax or some bags behind.. fact.
I still wish Josh the best of luck but at his age it's not going to be easy.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Middle England
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apparently, the quickest way to reduce your BMI is to chop a leg off! Only one though. If you do both, you are back to square one.
Not something the CAA would recommend though.
Not something the CAA would recommend though.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Northamptonshire
Age: 43
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the feedback guys, I attended an exercise test today as requested by the cardiologist so he can prepare a report for the CAA. All went off without a hitch and should be enough to satisfy them that my class one should be issued with no further problems.(hopefully)
Last edited by JoshG; 18th Oct 2013 at 22:31.
JoshG .... best of luck.
I got my Class 2 revoked becuase I was dim, daft and dopey enough to issue the CAA with a copy of my echocardiogram which revealed an LVEF of about 48% .... which despite considerable sympathy from Rob Hunter was just insurmountable because it has to be over 50%.
Never mind that the FAA would accept down to 45% but I don't have a directly issued FAA license and that I passed Gatwick's cardiac exercise stress test without problems, it was still a No NO.
Silly part is that it may have been at that level for years and as it isn't a required test could have remained undiscovered forever.
I got my Class 2 revoked becuase I was dim, daft and dopey enough to issue the CAA with a copy of my echocardiogram which revealed an LVEF of about 48% .... which despite considerable sympathy from Rob Hunter was just insurmountable because it has to be over 50%.
Never mind that the FAA would accept down to 45% but I don't have a directly issued FAA license and that I passed Gatwick's cardiac exercise stress test without problems, it was still a No NO.
Silly part is that it may have been at that level for years and as it isn't a required test could have remained undiscovered forever.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Offshore
Age: 73
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just trying to help you here Josh..
Josh.. it's surprising and disappointing that you think that a cardiologist's report will ensure the issue of your Class 1. For my part I genuinely hope that you get your Class 1 and are able to follow your dream. Please do keep us posted.
Realistically however (IMHO) the CAA Aeromedical folks will still have to apply the EASA BMI criteria... regardless of such a report...BMI issues embrace wider issues than simple cardiology.
This ol boy has spent enough time in a scrum to feel for your predicament but securing a Class 1 via the route suggested does not address your other predicament ... making yourself a viable candidate for future employent... and it is a worry that you're only now addressing this issue at age 32.
Before I get flamed, please note that there is no criticism..implied or stated.. in this reply. Cheers, TP
Realistically however (IMHO) the CAA Aeromedical folks will still have to apply the EASA BMI criteria... regardless of such a report...BMI issues embrace wider issues than simple cardiology.
This ol boy has spent enough time in a scrum to feel for your predicament but securing a Class 1 via the route suggested does not address your other predicament ... making yourself a viable candidate for future employent... and it is a worry that you're only now addressing this issue at age 32.
Before I get flamed, please note that there is no criticism..implied or stated.. in this reply. Cheers, TP