Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Ground & Other Ops Forums > Medical & Health
Reload this Page >

Lightning strikes produce X-Rays..

Wikiposts
Search
Medical & Health News and debate about medical and health issues as they relate to aircrews and aviation. Any information gleaned from this forum MUST be backed up by consulting your state-registered health professional or AME. Due to advertising legislation in various jurisdictions, endorsements of individual practitioners is not permitted.

Lightning strikes produce X-Rays..

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 4th Jan 2011, 07:31
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lightning strikes produce X-Rays..

Estimation of the fluence of high-energy electron bursts produced by thunderclouds and the resulting radiation doses received in aircraft

JOURNAL OF GEOPHYSICAL RESEARCH, VOL. 115, D09206, 10 PP., 2010
doi:10.1029/2009JD012039

Estimation of the fluence of high-energy electron bursts produced by thunderclouds and the resulting radiation doses received in aircraft

Using recent X-ray and gamma-ray observations of terrestrial gamma-ray flashes (TGFs) from spacecraft and of natural and rocket-triggered lightning from the ground, along with detailed models of energetic particle transport, we calculate the fluence (integrated flux) of high-energy (million electronvolt) electrons, X rays, and gamma rays likely to be produced inside or near thunderclouds in high electric field regions. We find that the X-ray/gamma-ray fluence predicted for lightning leaders propagating inside thunderclouds agrees well with the fluence calculated for TGFs, suggesting a possible link between these two phenomena. Furthermore, based on reasonable meteorological assumptions about the magnitude and extent of the electric fields, we estimate that the fluence of high-energy runaway electrons can reach biologically significant levels at aircraft altitudes. If an aircraft happened to be in or near the high-field region when either a lightning discharge or a TGF event is occurring, then the radiation dose received by passengers and crew members inside that aircraft could potentially approach 0.1 Sv (10 rem) in less than 1 ms. Considering that commercial aircraft are struck by lightning, on average, one to two times per year, the risk of such large radiation doses should be investigated further.
cwatters is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2011, 12:26
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: India
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thank you cwatters for sharing this vital report.
This has ominous implications for the radiation exposure to the aircrew as well as frequently flying passengers.
AvMed.IN is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2011, 14:46
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Surrey Hills
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And Golfers? Surely this is a thinly disguised attempt at getting some grant money?
aviate1138 is offline  
Old 4th Jan 2011, 18:25
  #4 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 84
Posts: 3,271
Received 37 Likes on 18 Posts
The single most frightening hour of my life was spent in a line of shoulder to shoulder storms. The really big bang came when we'd been out of the last one for a few moments - it blew a 4" hole right through the wing, having gone around the fuel!
I later read a physics book about lightning. I then wished I hadn't. I gave myself a good talking to and got on with the next 30 years.

I feel for the crew of the 447.


When Sprites were in the news, I wondered immediately whether the whole core of a bolt was 'lasing'. There was more than sufficient energy, and the 'lens' of water droplets might have made a crude optical rod. However, recent research still does not give this idea any credence.

Lightning may have played a part in our creation, but what is certain is that we should have a comfortable distance between us an the nearest discharge - say, 1,000 miles . . . or be issued with Neutronium suits.
Loose rivets is online now  
Old 5th Jan 2011, 02:56
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New York & California
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, do people who live in areas that have severe thunderstorms have a higher incidence of cancer?
Jane-DoH is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2011, 06:29
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Surrey Hills
Posts: 1,478
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Between 1978 and 1985 I spent a number of hours in a Learjet 24 and a B25J Mitchell fitted with 8 perf movie cameras and thousands of feet of 35 m/m Kodak colour film. Most of the flying was around large cu-nim clouds spitting many bolts of lightning. If undeveloped sensitive colour film is exposed to even the mildest of X-rays [ie airport security devices] the film is ruined. So film is Never put through such devices and if it has to be examined then it is done in a light tight room with the camera assistant and security person groping in the dark!
On every flight and using probably 200,000 feet of Kodak stock carried/exposed, not one frame was ever affected by any spurious radiation.

In this increasingly technical world, technology itself seems to whip up a frenzy of Health and Safety overkill.

Jane-DoH asks about the possibility of severe thunderstorms causing cancer in active areas.

Many years ago leukemia seemed to affect more people near a UK Nuclear Power Plant. Then a massive study found similar clusters in non Nuclear Plant areas. Technology, the Media scare stories and panic mongers had a field day until reality won through.

Like the madness of so called Anthropogenic Global Warming Climate Control someone will probably suggest we can subdue lightning strikes to thereby reduce cancer stats.
aviate1138 is offline  
Old 5th Jan 2011, 13:20
  #7 (permalink)  
Psychophysiological entity
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Tweet Rob_Benham Famous author. Well, slightly famous.
Age: 84
Posts: 3,271
Received 37 Likes on 18 Posts
...or with the spurious logic of man, we might deduce film has no fear of lightning.

Since we have mind / body interaction running all the time, perhaps everything from clusters to lightning-induced cancer can have the figures actually slewed by suggestion.
Loose rivets is online now  
Old 6th Jan 2011, 12:47
  #8 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nevertheless some interesting new sources of x-rays have been discovered in recent years... For example peeling sticky tape produced enough to make images in dental film..

Original paper..
Correlation between nanosecond X-ray flashes and stick-slip friction in peeling tape : Abstract : Nature

Video showing how it works..
Humble sticky tape emits powerful X-rays - tech - 23 October 2008 - New Scientist
cwatters is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2011, 12:58
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Seems they have photographed the x-rays...

X-rays from lightning photographed

and from 2009..

Mysterious Radiation May Strike Airline Passengers | LiveScience

passengers and crew members could be exposed to harmful levels of radiation, a dose equal to that of 400 chest X-rays.

However, the likelihood of encountering these lightning events is very small, the researchers say.
and from 2003..

X-Rays Abound When Lightning Strikes: Scientific American

They succeeded in harnessing 37 individual lightning strokes, and found intense bursts of x-ray radiation--each typically depositing tens of megaelectron volts into the detector--associated with 84 percent of them.
cwatters is offline  
Old 6th Jan 2011, 13:29
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Since no increase in radiation-caused health problems has been correlated with proximity to lightning strikes, there obviously is no problem. Why is the middle road of moderation so unattractive to your species? Why must everything be extreme and off the deep end?

So lightning produces x rays. So what? It's not a big surprise.

And even if it were a tremendous health hazard—which it manifestly is not—what could be done about it? Should the TSA prohibit lightning?
AnthonyGA is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.