Ears and pressure
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Ears and pressure
I'm curious. Do the frequent changes in pressure harm pilots' ears at all?
I suppose all pilots have to do the yawning..sweet sucking...fingers over nose and blowing to get their ears used to the pressure. Is it something they have to get used to?
Do they get frequent ear aches when they start out?
Now I'm asking this because a few years ago, whilst diving off a 5m diving board, my left eardrum burst....nothing tragic..it healed and i can hear just as well as i could before..(i think)(I have a class 1 med so that's good) but the one thing i can do is that i can change the pressure in my ears at will i.e. just by doing something involving my tongue, the back of my throat and breathing in or out. Sounds weird and potentially advantageous but i can feel the changes in pressure when going up and down some hills in my car. Also from a couple of thousand feet up in my little cessna.
They were fine when I went in an airliner last time and I don't think they've changed since, well i hope not. I didn't get earache or anything like that..but what about doing it repeatedly numerous times a day?
This ability wasn't triggered off by the diving board incident but it may have weakened my left eardrum slightly...(I don't know)
Does anyone know whether this is bad for me or not?
I suppose I'm after knowing whether eardrums can stretch to a point where they are less effective or worse still, burst under the constant strain.
ps sorry about the long explanation..i hope you undertand what i'm trying to get at.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by Ceppo (edited 10 August 2000).]
I suppose all pilots have to do the yawning..sweet sucking...fingers over nose and blowing to get their ears used to the pressure. Is it something they have to get used to?
Do they get frequent ear aches when they start out?
Now I'm asking this because a few years ago, whilst diving off a 5m diving board, my left eardrum burst....nothing tragic..it healed and i can hear just as well as i could before..(i think)(I have a class 1 med so that's good) but the one thing i can do is that i can change the pressure in my ears at will i.e. just by doing something involving my tongue, the back of my throat and breathing in or out. Sounds weird and potentially advantageous but i can feel the changes in pressure when going up and down some hills in my car. Also from a couple of thousand feet up in my little cessna.
They were fine when I went in an airliner last time and I don't think they've changed since, well i hope not. I didn't get earache or anything like that..but what about doing it repeatedly numerous times a day?
This ability wasn't triggered off by the diving board incident but it may have weakened my left eardrum slightly...(I don't know)
Does anyone know whether this is bad for me or not?
I suppose I'm after knowing whether eardrums can stretch to a point where they are less effective or worse still, burst under the constant strain.
ps sorry about the long explanation..i hope you undertand what i'm trying to get at.
Thanks
[This message has been edited by Ceppo (edited 10 August 2000).]
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Wow Ceppo, for a while there I thought I was the only person on the planet that could do that! Ever feel like a freak....? I notice that I have to keep putting my fingers over my nose and blowing hard to unblock them because my hearing is inferior unless I do this. My GP says it is fluid in the inner ear canal and prescribed de-congestants to clear me of this problem. Well this never worked and I've grown tired of going back to the docs surgery to be told the same thing everytime.
I've noticed I have to un-block them mainly after food and drink as well as in the Cessna at a thousand feet feet or less.
It annoys me more than anything, but if there is a serious risk of permanent injury to my ears then I would like to know.
Sorry I couldn't shed any light on this problem but I passed the Class 1 with it, all the CAA said was that there was some scaring but this was acceptable. The scaring is most likely from the grommits I had put in as a child-at least that is what they and my GP think.
Hope someone can shed some more light on this.
Good luck, VFE.
I've noticed I have to un-block them mainly after food and drink as well as in the Cessna at a thousand feet feet or less.
It annoys me more than anything, but if there is a serious risk of permanent injury to my ears then I would like to know.
Sorry I couldn't shed any light on this problem but I passed the Class 1 with it, all the CAA said was that there was some scaring but this was acceptable. The scaring is most likely from the grommits I had put in as a child-at least that is what they and my GP think.
Hope someone can shed some more light on this.
Good luck, VFE.
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Thanks for the reply VFE. So are you in training for your ATPL? Do you have to unblock your ears every 600-800 feet?
I am seriously considering going to the doctor and asking him whether it is damaging.
If you find anything....please feel free to mail me.
We have similar problems but ou say you have to put your fingers over your nose to unblock them, I don't need to do that, it's more like opening my mouth and wiggling my tongue at the back somehow. I think it's similar to yawning.
Do you get or have you ever had earaches after you went flying?
I am seriously considering going to the doctor and asking him whether it is damaging.
If you find anything....please feel free to mail me.
We have similar problems but ou say you have to put your fingers over your nose to unblock them, I don't need to do that, it's more like opening my mouth and wiggling my tongue at the back somehow. I think it's similar to yawning.
Do you get or have you ever had earaches after you went flying?
Guest
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Ceppo,
I am currently doing the PPL at the moment, the class 1 was just to see if the pilot carrer thing was a possibility-it is so that is what I'm planning.
By all means go to your doctor but if he/she is anything like mine expect a frustrating experience!
Sounds pretty weird-your wiggling of the tongue thing!
Any more questions, don't hesitate.
Take care, VFE.
I am currently doing the PPL at the moment, the class 1 was just to see if the pilot carrer thing was a possibility-it is so that is what I'm planning.
By all means go to your doctor but if he/she is anything like mine expect a frustrating experience!
Sounds pretty weird-your wiggling of the tongue thing!
Any more questions, don't hesitate.
Take care, VFE.
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There's a truth if ever I heard one. Doctors...GP's anyway often don't really care enough to suggest or do anything. I'm sure there are exeptions but i guess 20 years of seeing people with a spot on their nose who think it's cancer could probably take the flavour of the job away.
I'd ask to see a specialist but you know how it is...after arguing for 2 hours as to why you want to, the appointment made is dated the year after.
The wiggling of the tongue thing
is pretty hard to explain but it's to create similar conditions to a yawn.
So do your ears ever ache when you've been flying? or did they once before you got used to it?
I'd ask to see a specialist but you know how it is...after arguing for 2 hours as to why you want to, the appointment made is dated the year after.
The wiggling of the tongue thing
is pretty hard to explain but it's to create similar conditions to a yawn.So do your ears ever ache when you've been flying? or did they once before you got used to it?
Guest
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Ceppo,
My ears have never ached from this condition even when flying or after. I tend to get the change even at low altitude say, 800' during circuits.
I'm with you on the GPs , go in there and put your case firmly, ask to see the specialist at the ENT clinic and if he/she doesn't listen then lose your temper and throttle him/her!! Only kiddin', just give it a try though-you never know.
Cheers and best of luck, VFE.
------------------
And up we go!
My ears have never ached from this condition even when flying or after. I tend to get the change even at low altitude say, 800' during circuits.
I'm with you on the GPs , go in there and put your case firmly, ask to see the specialist at the ENT clinic and if he/she doesn't listen then lose your temper and throttle him/her!! Only kiddin', just give it a try though-you never know.
Cheers and best of luck, VFE.
------------------
And up we go!
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Ceppo,
Grommits are small cylinder shape devices that some chidren (maybe adults, I don't know) have inserted in their inner ear to drain away excess fluid. The process requires an operation under anesthetic at the hospital (well it did when I was a kid-I bet it's done under a local now and you get let out after half an hour!! Ah, NHS cutbacks-you can't beat 'em!).
Grommits are about half a millimeter in length and usually drop out after a year or so and evidently leave some scaring.
Hope that helps.
Take care, VFE.
[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 13 August 2000).]
Grommits are small cylinder shape devices that some chidren (maybe adults, I don't know) have inserted in their inner ear to drain away excess fluid. The process requires an operation under anesthetic at the hospital (well it did when I was a kid-I bet it's done under a local now and you get let out after half an hour!! Ah, NHS cutbacks-you can't beat 'em!).
Grommits are about half a millimeter in length and usually drop out after a year or so and evidently leave some scaring.
Hope that helps.
Take care, VFE.
[This message has been edited by VFE (edited 13 August 2000).]
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Ceppo
With regards the swallowing and clearing your ears thing - I think most people can equalise the pressure that way. It's all to do with opening the eustacian tube that links the back of the throat to the inner ear. I can certainly do it, and have no previous ear complaints.
If the pressure is too great for the swallowing bit, you have to use the 'Valsalva Manoeuvre' - which is holding you nose, closing yoiu mouth and blowing. It works for both +ve and -ve pressure.
We all know how to do it, and now we know what it's called!
With regards the swallowing and clearing your ears thing - I think most people can equalise the pressure that way. It's all to do with opening the eustacian tube that links the back of the throat to the inner ear. I can certainly do it, and have no previous ear complaints.
If the pressure is too great for the swallowing bit, you have to use the 'Valsalva Manoeuvre' - which is holding you nose, closing yoiu mouth and blowing. It works for both +ve and -ve pressure.
We all know how to do it, and now we know what it's called!
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Sorry to change the subject a bit here
AVCP - to my knowledge the Valsalva manoeuvre is used to check for hernial defects by rectal exam - have never heard the term for ear pressure equalisation. Which of us is wrong or is the term used for any type of pressure manoeuvre??
Please hold with the obvious jokes about nether region pressure - thanks.
AVCP - to my knowledge the Valsalva manoeuvre is used to check for hernial defects by rectal exam - have never heard the term for ear pressure equalisation. Which of us is wrong or is the term used for any type of pressure manoeuvre??
Please hold with the obvious jokes about nether region pressure - thanks.
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TikkiRo
I'm pretty certain that I'm right, but then of course someone could have been taking the **** .
Just checked out the EB Cd rom, and this is what it says:
"The eustachian tube helps to ventilate the middle ear and to maintain equal air pressure on both sides of the tympanic membrane. The tube is closed at rest and opens during swallowing so that minor pressure differences are adjusted without conscious effort. During a dive or a rapid descent in an airplane the tube may remain tightly closed. The discomfort that is felt as the external pressure increases can usually be overcome by attempting a forced expiration with the mouth and nostrils held tightly shut. This maneuver, which raises the air pressure in the pharynx and causes the tube to open, is called Valsalva's maneuver and is named for the Italian physician-anatomist Antonio Maria Valsalva (1666-1723), who recommended it for clearing pus from an infected middle ear."
I dread to think what embarrassing situations you've let yourself in for with you method.
[This message has been edited by A Very Civil Pilot (edited 19 August 2000).]
I'm pretty certain that I'm right, but then of course someone could have been taking the **** .
Just checked out the EB Cd rom, and this is what it says:
"The eustachian tube helps to ventilate the middle ear and to maintain equal air pressure on both sides of the tympanic membrane. The tube is closed at rest and opens during swallowing so that minor pressure differences are adjusted without conscious effort. During a dive or a rapid descent in an airplane the tube may remain tightly closed. The discomfort that is felt as the external pressure increases can usually be overcome by attempting a forced expiration with the mouth and nostrils held tightly shut. This maneuver, which raises the air pressure in the pharynx and causes the tube to open, is called Valsalva's maneuver and is named for the Italian physician-anatomist Antonio Maria Valsalva (1666-1723), who recommended it for clearing pus from an infected middle ear."
I dread to think what embarrassing situations you've let yourself in for with you method.
[This message has been edited by A Very Civil Pilot (edited 19 August 2000).]
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Some people like I, the pilot with every thing damn thing wrong with him, have probs with clearing the ears during decents. In some people the eustatian tube does not work as well as it should do. ( as with me ) We have to start swallowing very early in the decent or we will experience very sever pain. It's also a pain in the As* too as swallowing all the time from 35,000 ft rather drys the mouth out.
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Always had problems with my ears as well, but it seems much worse with rapid altitude changes below about 5000. Thats where the greatest change in pressure is. At altitude it seems fine. Slightly changing the subject, but staying with altitude, one of my worries is having an expl.decomm and the effects on teeth. Heard some horror stories about cracked and even disintegrating teeth due to air trapped under the filling. Anyone know if this is true, or just another old war story? I always make a point of telling my 'jaw breaker' I fly whenever I need treatment, just in case.
Cheers
Cheers
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Does anyone have a clicking noise in their ears when they talk? I know I have usually all the time, its a real basta**. Is it caused by some kind of fluid retention problem? Its often worse also when I have just eaten or druck something. BO basher also makes it worse!
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All very interesting!
Perhaps I may be of some help to you guys.
The ear is divided into 3 parts:
Outer ear = ear canal and ear drum.
Middle ear = air filled cavity behind the ear drum.
Inner ear = even deeper behind the middle ear where all the nerves are and nerve impulses leave to go to the brain.
The middle ear is as I said an air filled cavity. Air in this cavity is supposed to be at an equal pressure to the air outside the ear. This is maintained by a small tube which leaves the bottom of the middle ear and opens at the top of your nasal/throat area. This auditory tube has a small muscle at its base which opens the tube and allows the pressure in the middle ear to equalise with the pressure outside. This can be induced by yawning, swollowing etc.
Equalising pressure in this way is normal whether you find it hard or easy to do.
Some times the tube gets blocked and leads to a build up of fluid from the walls of the middle ear. This can take time to drain once the cause of the blockage has gone and may be heard as a popping sound. In children this is more common due to their anatomical proportions but less common in adults.
Grommets are small plastic circles with a hole through the middle, like a Polo mint. Inserted into you ear drum they are useful if your ear is finding it very difficult to drain on its own.
A small hole in your ear drum (Tympanic Membrain) caused by diving should heal on its own in about 3 months. If you have a hole like this you will not hear so well and if it doesn't heal the you may need a small Op to cover the area.
On the subject of damage due to pressure changes I think the jury is still out. I see plenty of divers and pilots with hearing impairments, however, it's impossible to say whether in a pilots case the cause is more noise related pressure related or both.
Hope this is of some use to you even if a little long winded.
Aiki.
[This message has been edited by Aikipilot (edited 22 August 2000).]
Perhaps I may be of some help to you guys.
The ear is divided into 3 parts:
Outer ear = ear canal and ear drum.
Middle ear = air filled cavity behind the ear drum.
Inner ear = even deeper behind the middle ear where all the nerves are and nerve impulses leave to go to the brain.
The middle ear is as I said an air filled cavity. Air in this cavity is supposed to be at an equal pressure to the air outside the ear. This is maintained by a small tube which leaves the bottom of the middle ear and opens at the top of your nasal/throat area. This auditory tube has a small muscle at its base which opens the tube and allows the pressure in the middle ear to equalise with the pressure outside. This can be induced by yawning, swollowing etc.
Equalising pressure in this way is normal whether you find it hard or easy to do.
Some times the tube gets blocked and leads to a build up of fluid from the walls of the middle ear. This can take time to drain once the cause of the blockage has gone and may be heard as a popping sound. In children this is more common due to their anatomical proportions but less common in adults.
Grommets are small plastic circles with a hole through the middle, like a Polo mint. Inserted into you ear drum they are useful if your ear is finding it very difficult to drain on its own.
A small hole in your ear drum (Tympanic Membrain) caused by diving should heal on its own in about 3 months. If you have a hole like this you will not hear so well and if it doesn't heal the you may need a small Op to cover the area.
On the subject of damage due to pressure changes I think the jury is still out. I see plenty of divers and pilots with hearing impairments, however, it's impossible to say whether in a pilots case the cause is more noise related pressure related or both.
Hope this is of some use to you even if a little long winded.
Aiki.
[This message has been edited by Aikipilot (edited 22 August 2000).]
Guest
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May I add my bit. If you were to pilot a tornado fighter and perform a sudden dive or climb, say - something crazy such as 18000ft/min the pilot who has had the gromets may be in trouble. Naturally having the gromets removed will cause scaring to occur on the ear drum, this is most likely to cause the eardrum to weaken slightly (in most cases). This weakening effect may cause the ear drums to suddenly perforate with the pressure differential. However, this is an extreme case and of course depends on the individual- everybody is different!
Maybe another far reaching question on health would be to ask what long term effect G-forces have on the body and hearing??
Maybe another far reaching question on health would be to ask what long term effect G-forces have on the body and hearing??
Guest
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Absolutely correct.
Perforations will leave a scar on your ear drum. This is usaully seen as a white line/mark and is due to the middle of the three layers of tissue that make up the drum not healing.
Medical advice on syringing or taking impressions of ears warns that extra care should be taken when treating patients with any scaring.
Perforations will leave a scar on your ear drum. This is usaully seen as a white line/mark and is due to the middle of the three layers of tissue that make up the drum not healing.
Medical advice on syringing or taking impressions of ears warns that extra care should be taken when treating patients with any scaring.