Long term effects of g force, any research?

[PilotsDaughter]

My dad suffered a major brain bleed several years ago when he was in his mid -60s. I've often wondered if repeated exposure to high g-forces during his years as a test and aerobatic pilot could have been the cause. As he ages and his health deterioriates, the quality of his and my mom's live has greatly diminished. He may be elegible for some extra funding from Veteran's Affairs to make their lives a little easier if we can show that the stroke was related to his work. There seems to be lots of research into the short-term effects of g-force on the bodies of pilots, but I haven't found anything about long term effect, especially cardiovascular or just vascular. Has anyone here come across work done in this area? Thanks, PilotsDaughter

[Pace]

PilotsDaughter

As no one in the know has responded just an opinion.

We live in a liability society where we like to lay the blame where we can get the best return.

That may sound harsh but its understandable and I can well understand your motivation.

There are many illnesses where there is no proof that an occupation has caused it but enough publicity and a new fangled name has got a result.
That maybe your best route.

Pace

[Guest 112233]

Please disregard this if its a complete waste of time

A possable area of research to look at, may be medical studies done on the effects high G forces on the pilots of dive bombers during the second world war. I 'm of course a complete amateur in this area - but researching through the Scientific Work/Research papers -If any might lead to further, more modern research - Also look at the Centrifuge Tests performed on prospective astronauts for evidence - Its one of those subjects that requires a sideways look at potential areas of materials.

Only just a thought from an outsider


CAT III

[kenparry]

You mention that your father worked as a test and aerobatic pilot: the military aviation medics in the UK became very concerned, as long ago as the 1950s, about the effects of negative "g" on the brain, and around that time imposed limits (I don't have details) on exposure to negative "g" for RAF (and probably RN) aircrew.

The RAF Institute of Aviation Medicine, which did the work, is long gone. Its successor is the RAF Centre of Aviation Medicine (a much smaller outfit), located at RAF Henlow, in Bedfordshire.

I have not tried to track down any papers, but something may be available through The National Archives at Kew - possibly worth trying to follow up if negative "g" featured prominently in your father's flying. (My background is pilot, not medic, so definitely not an expert in this field)

[PilotsDaughter]

Thanks everyone. I'll follow up on your suggestions.

Pace, we're actually Canadian and NOT generally known as a litigous society, or however you described it. My father served his country doing a risky job for many years, and if doing so made him sick, then maybe he's entitled to a little assistance. I've got no plans to launch a class action suit; I just want him and my mom to get the help they need to stay in their home a little longer.

[Bob the Doc]

PD

I can understand your concern and would support your claiming through VA (or the Canadian equivalent) if there were evidence of harm from what your father did for his country. I am aware of no evidence in favour of your claim but I am an enthusiast in the subject (as a doctor more than a pilot) and so my opinion is far from definitive.

There have been many aircrew doing considerable amounts of aerobatic flying for quite a while now. The community is quite close and haemorrhagic strokes (bleeds as opposed the embolic (clot) strokes) are less common. I would expect that if there were a higher than expected number of haemorrhagic strokes in this population, someone would have noticed and published it.

That said, no evidence does not mean there is no link!

I hope you find out what you want from a definitive source. I have a contact at the RAF CAM (and I am sure he is on PPRUNE but I don't know his screen name) that I could ask if you like

Bob

[PilotsDaughter]

Thanks Bob! Probably true that an increase in hemorrhagic stroke in jet drivers would have been noted by now. I wonder also if my dad could actually have a congential connective tissue disorder that can also affect blood vessels: Ehlers Danlos. My searching keeps leading me there: the guy has suffered every kind of hernia imaginable, and was extraordinarily flexible as a younger man,so we've heard.

[gingernut]

Hi Pilot's daughter.

I think you may have to look at your dad's case on two levels: medical and legal.

I 'aint no lawyer, nor doctor, but maybe I can give a few pointers.

It's doubtful that you will find high grade evidence linking g-forces to your dads problems. For the research to be robust, large studies (or experiments) would have to be performed, and I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have happened.

Further down the hierarchy of evidence, would be some sort of "cohort" study, which may demonstrate that chaps who flew high g's, suffered more strokes. Again, probably difficult to make the link (the insurance industry may have more info).

Further down the scale would be demonstrating some sort of proxy outcome- some effect demonstrable in patients who had experienced excessive g's.

Bottom of the pile is "expert opinion" - in academic terms, it's the equivalent of tabloid journalism, but having said that, the courts do seem to give it some credence (in the UK at least.)

You can do some research yourself PubMed home before spending money on a lawyer.

good luck, post your findings on here and we'll try and do some sort of appraisal.

[dudeone1]

G force test subject

As a Centrifuge test subject back at Brooks AFB, TX I subjected my body to extreme G forces for several months during 1980 - 1981. The test was to observe the effects of G forces at 3G's and 7G's back and forth until I released the button or passed out. Though I never passed out, I was not a participant in the exercise regimen, as I was told, my handling of the G forces were extraordinary (please, I am not bragging).
I was a 20 y/o male at the time and now am 56 y/o and I often wonder if blurred vision is a side effect from G forces or merely old age. I do admit I rode hard, and they called me "cowboy". Guess this is why I received "Hazardous Duty Pay". I was on flying status as an A1C. Maybe I should have thought twice .
I have not been able to find much on long term side effects of G forces. Perhaps I should be focusing more on a CVA, Have not had a TIA, yet.

[onetrack]

PilotsDaughter - I would expect that your Dad's job as a test and aerobatic pilot would almost certainly have had a very negative (no pun intended) effect on his health, and particularly his retinal and arterial health (in the head area, in particular).

It is generally accepted medically, that high negative G forces are considerably more dangerous than positive G forces. In most cases, however, the initial adverse indications are in the eyes, and the blood vessels around, and leading to the eyes.

As an Australian Veteran in receipt of a service pension that compensates me for war-related injuries (unrelated to flying), I can only give you some basic advice, as the Canadian Dept of Veterans Affairs may operate in a slightly different manner to the Australian DVA.

However, here are some general guidelines that may assist you in the pursuit of compensation under your Veterans Affairs laws.

1. Get hold of a copy of the relevant Veterans Affairs legislation that covers the position your Dad held, and the legislation or Act, that he could be compensated under.
In Australia, there have been multiple Acts and Laws covering various periods and Wars and periods of employment, so it is important to understand what Act or Law was covering him when he was employed in his job as test/aerobatic pilot.
In my own case, the relevant legislation for me, is the Australian Veterans Entitlements Act, 1986. This is a 2-Volume "Bible" of legal definitions and legal precision, that if the precise conditions and definitions are met, one becomes entitled to compensation for military-service-induced injuries or long-term health damage.
Every single definition and precise condition/s in the VEA 1986 has been determined by courts or lawyers.

It is important to know what precise conditions need to be met, under the relevant law, to be successful in the pursuit of a compensation claim.

2. Find out if there are Advocates who will assist in your quest for help from VA. In Australia, we have the Returned Services League which employs ex-service personnel (usually retired commissioned officers) as Advocates who will assist with claims, general advice, advice on correct forms to be filled in, and advice as to the relevant Act or Law to claim under.
You may find similar help in Canada from ex-service organisations.

3. Get a good doctor with Veterans treatment experience, who is interested in providing a medical report on the likelihood of brain artery damage from your Dads job.
That doctor should carry out a medical examination to VA requirements on your Dad, of course, and supply a qualified opinion on whether or not his vascular problems are job-induced.

4. Get hold of all your Dad's medical records during his time of employment. The military usually keep very good personnel records, and keep them for a long time. They are normally readily available under FOI laws.
Peruse them, and ask him about any medical treatment he had, or medical issues he reported during his employment.
There may be a record of him reporting some medical issues after high negative G flights. This will be important, if they exist.
You need to build up a picture, using all these small items of information, like parts of a jigsaw puzzle.
Often, in isolation, those small indicators provide no information - but when placed in context with other information, the jigsaw puzzle falls into place.

There is some useful information in the links below, but it appears that studies on the long-term physiological health effects of negative G forces are minimal.
There are quite a number of references quoted in these articles, that may assist in your research.

http://medind.nic.in/iab/t01/i1/i1/iabt01i1p8o.pdf

http://www.ijcrar.com/vol-2-8/Mohamm...%20et%20al.pdf

http://www.avstop.com/AC/AC91-61.html

Good luck with your quest for VA help - I trust the Canadian DVA is a helpful and assistive organisation, as most VA Depts are. In general, taking a well-documented and well-researched approach works well with them.