ECG
Good question.
It'll point out the glaringly obvious, but as a tool to predict whether or not a pilot will collapse at the stick, probably pretty useless.
It does make doctors and nurses look important though. Like pilots with whizz wheels.
It'll point out the glaringly obvious, but as a tool to predict whether or not a pilot will collapse at the stick, probably pretty useless.
It does make doctors and nurses look important though. Like pilots with whizz wheels.
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Predictive value is not particularly good but it can diagnose certain problems and an indication of processes which may cause sudden incapacitation in the future.
Until such times that virtual angiography is commonplace it is here to stay, and even after that it will remain a valuable tool as pictures are good but do not give away what the physiological activity is.
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Until such times that virtual angiography is commonplace it is here to stay, and even after that it will remain a valuable tool as pictures are good but do not give away what the physiological activity is.
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What the ECG Shows
Having undergone an initial medical just over a month ago now, I think I can help you understand what the ECG is there for: it basically measures the electrical impulses that pass through your heart. In other words it will confirm to the AME that your heart is beating in the correct rhythmn (sinus rhythm) and it can show abnormalities like an arrhythmia etc. There will be a section on the print out where the "Interpretation" of the trace is written down, and there will be a pre-printed heart rate as well (mine was 73 bpm). I think even now, there are ECG machines which can identify if the ECG is normal/abnormal and can print the interpretation itself!!!
I have to say I did feel a bit uncomfortable having it at first, as I'd never had one before, but it lasts literally seconds and you don't feel anything. Hope that helps you out.
dunelmitepilot
I have to say I did feel a bit uncomfortable having it at first, as I'd never had one before, but it lasts literally seconds and you don't feel anything. Hope that helps you out.
dunelmitepilot
Last edited by dunelmitepilot; 17th Feb 2009 at 09:16.
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<< I think even now, there are ECG machines which can identify if the ECG is normal/abnormal and can print the interpretation itself!!!
>>
A colleague of mine went for his ECG at Heathrow and after a minute or so the nurse said "Well, Mr X, according to this you are dead"!!
During one of my medicals the Doc told me that the distance between the vertical lines can indicate how clogged your arteries are. This is backed up by another medic who asked another colleague if his wife did all the cooking.. "yes, she does".... "well, telling her she's killing you!"
>>
A colleague of mine went for his ECG at Heathrow and after a minute or so the nurse said "Well, Mr X, according to this you are dead"!!
During one of my medicals the Doc told me that the distance between the vertical lines can indicate how clogged your arteries are. This is backed up by another medic who asked another colleague if his wife did all the cooking.. "yes, she does".... "well, telling her she's killing you!"
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Heathrow Director, I suspect that gentleman is now doing his own cooking as a result of that!! 
Interesting to hear what you said about the distance between the vertical lines indicating how blocked the arteries are; I suppose it means that things like coronary heart disease can be identified by looking at an ECG trace as well then. I just hope nothing like that doesn't happen to me at my future medicals!!
dunelmitepilot
Interesting to hear what you said about the distance between the vertical lines indicating how blocked the arteries are; I suppose it means that things like coronary heart disease can be identified by looking at an ECG trace as well then. I just hope nothing like that doesn't happen to me at my future medicals!!
dunelmitepilot
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It shows lots of heart problems to a trained person. I have been grounded for 4 years due to a regular ECG(yearly). I didn't feel anything wrong but if it had not been found I may not have been typing this now.
Psychophysiological entity
It shows lots of heart problems to a trained person. I have been grounded for 4 years due to a regular ECG
I have no knowledge of the poster's case of course, but in the past, pilots have been grounded - indeed to the point of loss of license - only to find out that something they were taking affected their ECGs.
In the 60s, at least one British Eagle pilot, and I think 3 others, lost their licenses due to a failed ECG. These particular cases turned out to be caused by excessive coffee drinking. The anomaly in the readout became well known, and presumably in the worst cases, the subjects can now be re-tested after cutting back. I recall the start of their protests to get their licenses back, but heard no more.
So, no pills for colds or the like, especially 'Night remedies'. No booze, and not too much caffeine, would all be a good start to passing the medical.
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The ECG shows the electrical activity of the heart. It says nothing about the structure. It certainly can NOT identify murmurs as these are due to turbulent flow through valves or other structural abnormalities. It can suggest that the heart is abnormally enlarged and can suggest some structural abnormalities but it cannot diagnose these.
Its primary benefit in routine medicals for people who have no symptoms of coronary heart disease is in confirming that the patient has a normally conducted, regular heart rhythm (sinus rhythm) and that there is no evidence of old damage to the heart (from a 'silent' heart attack - yes, they do happen!). Damage from a heart attack shows as unusual routes and directions of electrical activity as the damaged bit doesn't conduct electricity normally.
Irregularities of heart rhythm (arrhythmias) are often asymptomatic and some only show up when the patient collapses for the first time. ECGs can identify some of these abnormalities before they cause problems and restrict flying in those who have them (some aren't allowed to fly solo for instance, rather than being grounded altogether).
Angina does not show up on an ECG except during an attack or when the patient is exercise stressed (like doing the fitness test!). Some types of angina don't even show this change. ECGs are therefore not a good test for coronary heart disease on their own.
Essentially ECGs are good for identifying abnormalities (if the ECG is abnormal then there is a good chance that there is something abnormal with the heart) but poor at ruling abnormalities out (the ECG can be normal with a very abnormal heart). The machine is not very good at identifying abnormalities and tends to the side of caution. If the machine says the ECG is normal then it probably is. If it says the ECG is abnormal, that doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem!
Hope that makes some sense. Apologies for the long post
Bob
Its primary benefit in routine medicals for people who have no symptoms of coronary heart disease is in confirming that the patient has a normally conducted, regular heart rhythm (sinus rhythm) and that there is no evidence of old damage to the heart (from a 'silent' heart attack - yes, they do happen!). Damage from a heart attack shows as unusual routes and directions of electrical activity as the damaged bit doesn't conduct electricity normally.
Irregularities of heart rhythm (arrhythmias) are often asymptomatic and some only show up when the patient collapses for the first time. ECGs can identify some of these abnormalities before they cause problems and restrict flying in those who have them (some aren't allowed to fly solo for instance, rather than being grounded altogether).
Angina does not show up on an ECG except during an attack or when the patient is exercise stressed (like doing the fitness test!). Some types of angina don't even show this change. ECGs are therefore not a good test for coronary heart disease on their own.
Essentially ECGs are good for identifying abnormalities (if the ECG is abnormal then there is a good chance that there is something abnormal with the heart) but poor at ruling abnormalities out (the ECG can be normal with a very abnormal heart). The machine is not very good at identifying abnormalities and tends to the side of caution. If the machine says the ECG is normal then it probably is. If it says the ECG is abnormal, that doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem!
Hope that makes some sense. Apologies for the long post
Bob
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Witnessed an elderly person having an ECG in a hospital. Full diagnosis and suggested treatment printed on the trace.
However - and this is the bugbear - this person had a bypass operation some years ago and the machine got the diagnosis completely wrong.
However - and this is the bugbear - this person had a bypass operation some years ago and the machine got the diagnosis completely wrong.
Psychophysiological entity
Bob wrote:
Despite having personally conveyed one of the first briefings on an A-V sequential pace-makers to UK heart specialists, I realized that although I knew about the unit's electronic logic, I knew little about the way in which the power found its way to each cell. Although I now know a little more about the way in which a cell 'communicates' through its membrane, I really would like to know more about the spread of voltages across specific parts of the muscle, and how this is shown in an ECG.
Don't worry about long posts...you'd have to exceed a tad less than 6,000 words to beat some recent offerings.
Damage from a heart attack shows as unusual routes and directions of electrical activity as the damaged bit doesn't conduct electricity normally.
Despite having personally conveyed one of the first briefings on an A-V sequential pace-makers to UK heart specialists, I realized that although I knew about the unit's electronic logic, I knew little about the way in which the power found its way to each cell. Although I now know a little more about the way in which a cell 'communicates' through its membrane, I really would like to know more about the spread of voltages across specific parts of the muscle, and how this is shown in an ECG.
Don't worry about long posts...you'd have to exceed a tad less than 6,000 words to beat some recent offerings.
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Loose rivet how right you are.
I cut out Caffeine due to an echtopic heart beat. I even went as far as to have a full Echo and 24 hour holster tape, because I thought I was about to die! The results from the Echo and holster were completely normal and and I was advised that I should cut caffeine out completely! Since doing so I no longer suffer from the odd echtopic beat!
I didn't appreciate just how sensitive my body was to caffeine and strongly recommend anyone worried about the ecg or BP to cut out caffeine and alcohol ect for at least a week before the medical to allow the body to flush the substances out.
Tug
I cut out Caffeine due to an echtopic heart beat. I even went as far as to have a full Echo and 24 hour holster tape, because I thought I was about to die! The results from the Echo and holster were completely normal and and I was advised that I should cut caffeine out completely! Since doing so I no longer suffer from the odd echtopic beat!
I didn't appreciate just how sensitive my body was to caffeine and strongly recommend anyone worried about the ecg or BP to cut out caffeine and alcohol ect for at least a week before the medical to allow the body to flush the substances out.
Tug
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A colleague of mine went for his ECG at Heathrow and after a minute or so the nurse said "Well, Mr X, according to this you are dead"!!
My AME hooked me up the rig, asked who I worked with, spent the following 10 minutes ranting about what a bastard he was, and told me to keep quiet, as me speaking, could disturb the trace.
