unrelated-to-aviation post traumatic stress

[track&field]

Will my medical history affect a class1 medical pass?

It is about the time when I need to consider wether to take the plunge and use my savings for pilot licences or not, so before this comes the important issue of passing the class one medical or not.

I am fit as a fiddle these days but this has not always been the case. from my teenage years I have suffered from depression and anxiety and have taken the appropriate medications and recovered. I am concerned about what the doctor performing the medical may make of my condition when he reads 'anti-depressants' in my past history (assuming of course he has access to my history?), could it possibly be thought that I shouldn't be piloting and will fail the medical, even though this issue is firmly in the past?

More recently I was the victim of a particularly violent assault through no fault of my own, and came away from this suffering post traumatic stress. If this does not affect my abilities and professional life, is it a cause for concern regarding passing the medical? Should I wait until I am over this set-back, or is it a case of I can get on with life now, and the medical won't be a concern?

Thank you for your opinions on my important career decisions.

[gingernut]

The subject of anxiety & depression has been discussed on here at length previously so it may be worth a search.

Here's what I've learnt from wading through this forum.

1) Current medical treatment seems to stop people flying.

2) Past treatment doesn't always stop people flying- it looks like the CAA treat each case on its merits- searching will reveal some success stories, but it seems the journey to gaining the certificate can be a little convoluted.

3) It's not a good idea to withold the truth re: your past medical history. You'd possibly get away with it to some extent, but it'll probably come back to trip you up hard.


Would it be worth you making some enquiries with the CAA (and maybe getting your medical certificate), prior parting with any cash?

good luck.

[track&field]

Thank you for the advice GN.

I agree, withholding possibly important information is a terrible idea from health professionals and I believe in doing things right or not at all.
I have read the thread a few lines below this one on the 'medical and health' section of the forum and I will do some looking around Pprune for posts of a similar nature when I arrive home later this evening. : )

[track&field]

I have begun this thread as there doesnt seem to be much information on post traumatic stress on this forum and hopefully when people now search, they will find relevant information here to that which they are concerned with, all in one thread.
After searching the medical section of PPRuNe I have been unable to determine if any pilots have suffered from post traumatic stress, recovered and have then had a successful career -there just isnt the information there to be read on it. I am interested in this matter because I have suffered from PTSD due to a particularly violent assault I suffered a few years ago and I have a strong interest in aviation. A little about me; My condition only affects me when I am in similar conditions to that in which I was assaulted in -I am overly careful at night to avoid any potential places where I could suffer the same fate again which is perfectly normal I should say, but will take a little time for me to relax back to everyone else's level if they were in the same situation. However I am concerned with my ability to pass a medical only as this is noted in my medical history, otherwise I function as any other 'normal' human being. Could someone enlighten me as to whether this is a cause for concern, should I even forget my career aspirations now this is 'on paper'?

[gingernut]

Although you're obviously suffering, in medical terms, PTSD is usually seen as being at the mild end of the mental illness spectre-usually it responds to time.

I should imagine the authorities would take an interest in the fact that you are still having symptoms (and ? treatment).

I guess if you presented for a medical stating that this was something in the past, that doesn't affect you now, the outcome would be more favourable.

[Hawk]

The diagnosis of PTSD is not the mild end of at all. It does not cure over time. You may be confusing a PTSD diagnosis with reported symptoms of acute stress reaction that occur in response to a traumatic event. Those symptoms are a normal reaction to an abnormal event and of course improve over time. The diagnosis of PTSD must meet very rigorous symptom criteria and is altogether a different issue. Although some of the symptoms may require medical and psychological interventions from time to time generally it is not considered a psychotic/mental illness.

As a general reminder forum threads must have an aviation focus. To start a thread on the basis of "it might be useful" is not sufficient however, given your concern about passing an aviation medical we will leave it here.

[gingernut]

Well I s'pose it depends on where you're coming from, and I'm not belittling people who suffer from these terrible symptoms.

But it's not the same as a voice in your head telling you to kill your kids and hang yourself.

It's pointless arguing against the mods, but just because they're in a position of authority, doesn't mean to say they are right, so explore the facts yourself.

And I don't think I've mentioned the word "cure." In fact, don't think I've ever cured anything, aart from when I syringed someones ears-and to be honest, the wax did eventually come back.

More guidance here... http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf...ckrefguide.pdf

make your own judgement.

[AMEandPPL]

totally agree . . . . . . . . . .

It's pointless arguing against the mods, but just because they're in a position of authority, doesn't mean to say they are right

I am completely in agreement with Gingernut on this one. The thread starter is an aspiring aviator, just asking for opinions on how, if at all, something which has touched his life, AND been given a MEDICAL label, might impinge on his future career prospects.

PTSD is not something which can be easily defined, or diagnosed with a blood test or x-ray. Most non-medical people, and even some medics too, would struggle to understand the distinction the moderatrix seems to be trying to make.

Let the debate continue !

[AMEandPPL]

back to the question . . . . . . .

However I am concerned with my ability to pass a medical only as this is noted in my medical history

A very fair concern. Depends on (1) what the exact original circumstances were (and therefore, by extrapolation, what the apparent risk of "recurrence by association" is, and (2) most importantly, whether any medical treatment is considered necessary.

As has been alluded to in these pages only fairly recently, rightly or wrongly the powers that be at "The Belgrano" take a pretty dim view of any pilot or potential pilot taking any kind of psychotropic medication.
The antipodean authorities allow these types of treatment, apparently, in spite of the fact that they clearly affect alertness and decision making.

I don't know of any standard textbook treatment for PTSD, but if there were any which involved eating pills then they'd be likely to be either tranquillizers (benzodiazepines, or even worse ! ) or else one of the numerous anti-depressants on the market. The UK CAA medical department will not at present allow pilots to fly while taking any such preparations.

If that were not the case, then Gingernut's suggestion that :

I guess if you presented for a medical stating that this was something in the past, that doesn't affect you now, the outcome would be more favourable

would more than likely be quite true.

Best of luck ! Let us know how you get on !

[Hawk]

My reason for posting on this topic was that Track&Field stated he had a diagnosis of PTSD I felt that gingernut was been a tiny bit dismissive and I felt that Track&Field might be getting a overly optimistic view. A diagnosis of PTSD would normally require a specialist psychiatrist report before granting a medical.

PTSD does have other tests other than reporting symptoms. People with this condition have killed themselves and their children and its not unusual for individuals to report psychotic symptoms.

AME PPL your specific mention of medication requirements with reference to Australia was covered in a previous thread. You were sent a reference to read. Your comments regarding other nationalities medical requirements are valuable but perhaps better placed in context.

[Brian Abraham]

in spite of the fact that they clearly affect alertness and decision making.

I have to take issue with such a broad sweeping statement. It may be that that is the case with some people, but having had a PTSD event myself, and knowing other practicing aviators who have suffered likewise, I can tell you there is absolutely nothing wrong with our alertness and decision making skills. Speaking of my own case, in the very early days tiredness and concentration was an issue, but soon overcome.
track&field - you might read of my experience here http://www.pprune.org/forums/medical...5-bipolar.html
I wish you the very best in your endevours. Unfortunately other countries are not as well disposed as our Australian aviation medical folk in coming to grips with these issues.

[track&field]

I would like to thank you all for your input on this, I have had some very useful responses here. From what I have read I feel more confident in persuing a flying career without being held back by past experiences.

Hawk, I would like to put your concerns to rest here. I really do not want to act-out, I simply suffered an assault which makes me more careful than I should be, in fact, I shall cut and paste something for clarity.

Originally Posted by track&field

My condition only affects me when I am in similar conditions to that in which I was assaulted in -I am overly careful at night to avoid any potential places where I could suffer the same fate again which is perfectly normal I should say, but will take a little time for me to relax back to everyone else's level if they were in the same situation.

Obviously this in no way makes me want to kill kids or myself or anything/anyone. I don't have any other condition which I have not mentioned and I believe being psychotic, which you mentioned, is a different illness entirely. I have some PTSD. I simply may drive past a fuel station instead of stopping late at night if there are groups of people on the forecourt, nothing more sinister. That is the way which it manifests for me. Thankfully I am getting my head around the situation and can see that another assault is unlikely to happen and I'm progressively becoming more relaxed about things. I know I will make a total recovery in time.

I was concerned about the letters PTSD being on my record which could reflect upon me with some stigma, or preconcieved ideas about its nature at my medical however I now believe things will be taken on their own merit and I should have nothing to fear there.

[outofwhack]

I wouldnt give any information I wasnt asked for if I were you.
You will just be shooting yourself in the foot. Believe me - CAA are the regulators and they if you give them enough cause for concern they will regulate on the side of safety and that will be it. There will be no comeback for you.

Besides, there are some aspects of aviation that can drive us to depression anyway. e.g. just try owning an aircraft and all it entails

[AMEandPPL]

Hmmm - mixed messages, methinks . . . . . . .

We were told this :

Australia is very enlightened in this regard. Taking anti-depressants in itself is not a disqualifier to any licence holder, including ATPL. Whether the Department gives an applicant the thumbs up though would depend on the clinical assessment I guess, but they certainly do all they can to keep you in the front seat.

only about a month ago, in a different thread on this forum.

But today, the advice which appears to be emanating from the same continent is :

I wouldnt give any information I wasn't asked for if I were you.
You will just be shooting yourself in the foot. Believe me - CAA are the regulators and they if you give them enough cause for concern they will regulate on the side of safety and that will be it.

Maybe I have misunderstood something here ? I have no experience of how things work there at all. Can anyone enlighten me ?

[Hawk]

Duplicate post from same member.