Excessive Drinking
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: At Home
Excessive Drinking
I am actually a long-time pPruner, but this is my first post with my new username. The reason for re-registering (WHAT a performance!) is that my usual name wasn't anonymous.
This is a question for doctors and healthcare professionals which there is never time to discuss in the allocated NHS ten minutes, nor do I like to burden medical people with it on social occasions. Simply, it is "Why shouldn't I drink too much?"
The usual answers are unsatisfactory. I don't fly any more these days, and I don't drink until driving is done for the day. I'm not an embarrassment to society, or my friends - it is just that my "nightcap" is considerably more than the recommended dose. I may shorten my life a bit (I am 61), but I am watching my abstemious father suffer the misery and indignity of multiple TIAs and progressive incapacitation. If alcohol doesn't kill me then something else (probably worse) will. I'm an atheist so "God says its naughty" won't do, either. I have no other vices. I am going to cost the NHS most in the last year of my life, whether it is next year or in 20 years. Oh, and I consider myself happy and content with my life, both my past flying career and my present semi-retired life.
You will have to take the above at face value. There is no point my asking for an answer if I don't give you the honest facts. But doctors always seem to say "Because its bad for you", without reference to the bigger picture. So I thought I'd ask...
This is a question for doctors and healthcare professionals which there is never time to discuss in the allocated NHS ten minutes, nor do I like to burden medical people with it on social occasions. Simply, it is "Why shouldn't I drink too much?"
The usual answers are unsatisfactory. I don't fly any more these days, and I don't drink until driving is done for the day. I'm not an embarrassment to society, or my friends - it is just that my "nightcap" is considerably more than the recommended dose. I may shorten my life a bit (I am 61), but I am watching my abstemious father suffer the misery and indignity of multiple TIAs and progressive incapacitation. If alcohol doesn't kill me then something else (probably worse) will. I'm an atheist so "God says its naughty" won't do, either. I have no other vices. I am going to cost the NHS most in the last year of my life, whether it is next year or in 20 years. Oh, and I consider myself happy and content with my life, both my past flying career and my present semi-retired life.
You will have to take the above at face value. There is no point my asking for an answer if I don't give you the honest facts. But doctors always seem to say "Because its bad for you", without reference to the bigger picture. So I thought I'd ask...
Life's too short for ironing
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Scotland, & Maryland, USA
BV123,
I'm neither a doctor nor a healthcare professional. But your description of your nightcap very much brings to mind a very close relative of mine. Before I describe our situation, I would like to make it clear I'm not saying you are like the person I'm talking about. I'm just writing this as it sounds like someone has possibly made a comment to you which has made you think about the quantity of your nightcap, and they possibly had a good reason for mentioning it.
The person I am talking about has a nightcap that isn't excessive by any standards, but when it kicks in, there is no question about the negative effect it has on their behaviour. Is it affecting their health? Probably not. Is it shortening their life? Who knows for sure. And if they're happy, who are we to judge. They do not drink and drive and they live alone.
The downside to the drinking is that we will not phone them after 5.30pm as conversations are pointless, often descending into unpleasantness. Staying with them becomes quite uncomfortable as the time comes for the nightcap. It can turn quite nasty, and we would rather not be in their company. If we are like that, what effect is it having on this person's friends? If you were invited for supper with someone you know drinks in a way that is detrimental to their behaviour, chances are you'd turn that invitation down.
As I say, this is a very close member of our family. We have tried to address the drinking, but it is somewhat of a taboo subject. And we go back to "if its not harming anyone, is it really that wrong?"
I don't know if this is any help to you, just my thoughts on how it affects others and how our situation is from our perspective.
I'm neither a doctor nor a healthcare professional. But your description of your nightcap very much brings to mind a very close relative of mine. Before I describe our situation, I would like to make it clear I'm not saying you are like the person I'm talking about. I'm just writing this as it sounds like someone has possibly made a comment to you which has made you think about the quantity of your nightcap, and they possibly had a good reason for mentioning it.
The person I am talking about has a nightcap that isn't excessive by any standards, but when it kicks in, there is no question about the negative effect it has on their behaviour. Is it affecting their health? Probably not. Is it shortening their life? Who knows for sure. And if they're happy, who are we to judge. They do not drink and drive and they live alone.
The downside to the drinking is that we will not phone them after 5.30pm as conversations are pointless, often descending into unpleasantness. Staying with them becomes quite uncomfortable as the time comes for the nightcap. It can turn quite nasty, and we would rather not be in their company. If we are like that, what effect is it having on this person's friends? If you were invited for supper with someone you know drinks in a way that is detrimental to their behaviour, chances are you'd turn that invitation down.
As I say, this is a very close member of our family. We have tried to address the drinking, but it is somewhat of a taboo subject. And we go back to "if its not harming anyone, is it really that wrong?"
I don't know if this is any help to you, just my thoughts on how it affects others and how our situation is from our perspective.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 501
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From: Cheshire, UK
fernytickles - I empathise with that situation, however, I do feel that it does not apply in this situation.
A large measure at bedtime doesn't mean that there is a problem.
I believe that the Gentleman in question is 61 - so it is probably actually beneficial.
I could bang on about limits, guidelines etc. And of course there is the old story of Granny who smoked 60 Woodbines a day and drank a bottle of whisky a day.
At 61 a good tipple is unlikely to do any harm.
So how much is a good tipple - 3-4 units ? (that's 3 or 2 small whiskys).
What I find is, that people don't understand the units of alcohol that they are drinking.
It is simply because they don't know.
So our Government sets guidelines. What the problem with that is, that some (mostly youngsters) seem to either ignore them or take it as weekly limit.
This ad campaign in the UK at the moment is ill thought out. Yes, it talks about units. But you ask the average person in the street about units etc - they don't have a clue.
So, back to the plot, how many units do you think you are drinking of an evening BV123 ?
If it is of concern to you, surely you have a doubt ?
I am quite happy to openly discuss this on this forum if you are.
I am an informed individual about such matters having been educated myself shall we say !
Personally I wouldn't worry.
A large measure at bedtime doesn't mean that there is a problem.
I believe that the Gentleman in question is 61 - so it is probably actually beneficial.
I could bang on about limits, guidelines etc. And of course there is the old story of Granny who smoked 60 Woodbines a day and drank a bottle of whisky a day.
At 61 a good tipple is unlikely to do any harm.
So how much is a good tipple - 3-4 units ? (that's 3 or 2 small whiskys).
What I find is, that people don't understand the units of alcohol that they are drinking.
It is simply because they don't know.
So our Government sets guidelines. What the problem with that is, that some (mostly youngsters) seem to either ignore them or take it as weekly limit.
This ad campaign in the UK at the moment is ill thought out. Yes, it talks about units. But you ask the average person in the street about units etc - they don't have a clue.
So, back to the plot, how many units do you think you are drinking of an evening BV123 ?
If it is of concern to you, surely you have a doubt ?
I am quite happy to openly discuss this on this forum if you are.
I am an informed individual about such matters having been educated myself shall we say !
Personally I wouldn't worry.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 506
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From: Cheshire
it's simple . . . . . . .
"Why shouldn't I drink too much?"
Why not just drink "enough" or "adequate" or, better still, "exactly what you like" ?
Then, I'll be right with you . . . . . . . . !
Cheers
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,333
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From: gone surfin'
If you're truly happy with your behaviour, no-ones gon'na waste their time lecturing you.
But I wonder why you pose the question in the first place?
PS the government guidelines are probably not that scientifically robust, are are nothing more than a good guess.
But I wonder why you pose the question in the first place?
PS the government guidelines are probably not that scientifically robust, are are nothing more than a good guess.
Last edited by gingernut; 2nd June 2008 at 07:32.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Hedge
PS the government guidelines are probably not that scientifically robust, are are nothing more than a good guess.
He reckoned government guidelines, i.e. 21 units a week were conservative and upto 28 per week was fine.
He did stress not all in one session though!
Joined: Aug 2001
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From: Europe
Alcohol is addictive and therefore, while you may not be a burden to others, society (as you put it) at the moment; you are likely to become so by increasing your alcohol intake.
The argument that it is better to die young having 'enjoyed' tabacco or booze than live long with old age ailments my serve to fool yourself in your indulgence. Fact is that habits like these are not only likely to shorten your life but also reduce the quality thereof considerably.
The list of alcohol related health problems is long and distinguished and non of them are 'good fun' to have. One of the most common health problems caused by alcohol is its propensity to cause depression.
And whilst you think your drinking may not be a problem; others around you may well have a different view on that perception and don't forget that people who overuse alcohol are not just affected by the alcohol itsel; when in the withdrawal state they are usually crabby, irritable and generally unpleasant to deal with.
Reality is that most folks who post questions like this one already have 'an issue' and are not likely to be on the brink of just going beyond the maximum suggested limit of 21 or 28 units per week.
Especially if they have discussed it already before and find that
The argument that it is better to die young having 'enjoyed' tabacco or booze than live long with old age ailments my serve to fool yourself in your indulgence. Fact is that habits like these are not only likely to shorten your life but also reduce the quality thereof considerably.
The list of alcohol related health problems is long and distinguished and non of them are 'good fun' to have. One of the most common health problems caused by alcohol is its propensity to cause depression.
And whilst you think your drinking may not be a problem; others around you may well have a different view on that perception and don't forget that people who overuse alcohol are not just affected by the alcohol itsel; when in the withdrawal state they are usually crabby, irritable and generally unpleasant to deal with.
Reality is that most folks who post questions like this one already have 'an issue' and are not likely to be on the brink of just going beyond the maximum suggested limit of 21 or 28 units per week.
Especially if they have discussed it already before and find that
The usual answers are unsatisfactory
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: At Home
Thank you for those balanced replies - I was afraid I might trigger off the crusaders against booze!
I posted the question and phrased it as "too much" because I wished to acknowledge that guidelines have been set and my intake (35-50 units per week) exceeds them and is classed as "hazardous". That is a genuine figure - doesn't need to be "factored" - because this is an anonymous forum and I don't need to BS anybody.
However, my military flying was also hazardous, could easily have knocked years off my life, and was accepted because it was emormous fun.
The reason for asking was twofold. First, I am fed up with being told about the risk when I believe that I understand and accept it, just as I understood the deal with mil flying. Second, I want to hear all the arguments so that I can be sure I DO understand the score.
Although I am perhaps not best placed to judge my effect on those around me, I really do believe that there is no problem there.
I posted the question and phrased it as "too much" because I wished to acknowledge that guidelines have been set and my intake (35-50 units per week) exceeds them and is classed as "hazardous". That is a genuine figure - doesn't need to be "factored" - because this is an anonymous forum and I don't need to BS anybody.
However, my military flying was also hazardous, could easily have knocked years off my life, and was accepted because it was emormous fun.
The reason for asking was twofold. First, I am fed up with being told about the risk when I believe that I understand and accept it, just as I understood the deal with mil flying. Second, I want to hear all the arguments so that I can be sure I DO understand the score.
Although I am perhaps not best placed to judge my effect on those around me, I really do believe that there is no problem there.
Joined: Dec 2007
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From: UK
Another good guide line might be :
How do you feel in the morning ? If you feel ok, than fine, otherwise reduce your intake for sure !
Try to not-drink-alcohol for two days a week is probably the best advice.
This because the body needs these days to clear itself (from harmfull substances created due to the break-off of alcohol in your body)
How do you feel in the morning ? If you feel ok, than fine, otherwise reduce your intake for sure !
Try to not-drink-alcohol for two days a week is probably the best advice.
This because the body needs these days to clear itself (from harmfull substances created due to the break-off of alcohol in your body)
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Cheshire
that reminds me . . . . . . . .
However, my military flying was also hazardous
This has reminded me that when I did my Diploma course, back in 1986 at the now long defunct Institute of Aviation Medicine, at Farnborough, I stayed for six months at the Officers' Mess there. On many occasions one would see fast jet pilots staggering back to their rooms in the early hours, exceedingly inebriated, then realise with some horror that they would be flying things like Hawks, Hunters, Harriers and Tornadoes the very next morning ! The liver only metabolises alcohol at about 15mg/100ml/hour , so some of those guys were almost certainly still over the legal limit for driving as they were taking off ! Scary, eh ?
I do understand that this is no longer a common occurrence now !
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: New South Wales
If you're not drinking and driving and / or flying and it's what you want to do, then I don't see the problem. The role of the physician is to inform you of the health-related issues of any behaviour and ensure you are aware of the implications. It is then up to you to take whatever action you think appropriate. If it makes you happy drinking at your level, then go ahead in the knowledge that it is somewhat over the recommended limit. I don't think there is a major issue here.
Last edited by QDMQDMQDM; 5th June 2008 at 16:52.
Upto The Buffers
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Leeds/Bradford
I usually crack open a cold beer when I get back from work. Just the one, usually. I'll also usually share a bottle of wine with the Mrs over dinner. Personally I wouldn't class that as excessive drinking, yet it puts me over the weekly recommended intake.
Is it any wonder that the government's unscientific alcohol intake recommendations are simply dismissed out of hand by the vast majority?
Is it any wonder that the government's unscientific alcohol intake recommendations are simply dismissed out of hand by the vast majority?
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,333
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From: gone surfin'
It is evidence based .......
I don't think anyone will argue about the hazardous effects of drinking too much.
But the current "guidelines" (21 units for men, 14 units for women), were actually scribbled on the back of a pack of fags! (Or, in the case of the Royal College of Physicians, it was more likely a packet of ready rub ).
Ask the authors, they'll readily admit it.
good health, ginge
Last edited by gingernut; 5th June 2008 at 20:28.
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Cheshire
the nicest drink . . . . . .
I usually crack open a cold beer when I get back from work
A good landing, top up the fuel, park my aircraft and tie it down,
then over to the clubhouse, and that beer is NECTAR !
Cheers everyone !
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Canada (Southeastern Québec)
Hat's off to you. I turn 50 today, so I still try to follow the "recommendation" but what you do is your business.
If I make it past the customary 3 score and ten I figure I'll be running on bonus years, so why not enjoy them with a fast car, a smoke, a tipple and a good shag with a hag!
If you figure you're into your bonus years already based on family history, I say, enjoy it! I happen to be a believer but I believe life was given to be lived, no puritan streak in I!
If I make it past the customary 3 score and ten I figure I'll be running on bonus years, so why not enjoy them with a fast car, a smoke, a tipple and a good shag with a hag!
If you figure you're into your bonus years already based on family history, I say, enjoy it! I happen to be a believer but I believe life was given to be lived, no puritan streak in I!
