Type I Diabetes And Flying
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I was a private pilot untill 1999 when the CAA took my licence away from being from tablet controlled to Insulin dependent, Now we come under JAR i've got 2 hopes of ever getting it back and one of them is Bob!
However if i pay a large amount of dosh (again) i could get it back with an NPPL but then you can only fly solo which seems a bit strange amongst other restrictions, but from a previous posting by someone am i to believe that if i can convert my British PPL in to a FAA licence and take a FAA medical then will that allow me to fly even as an insulin dependant a "G" reg aircraft?
Also don't bother contacting AOPA on this as that bunch of
want your money but the minute you want help/advice their far to busy saving the planet or what ever, needless to say i cancelled my membership with them
However if i pay a large amount of dosh (again) i could get it back with an NPPL but then you can only fly solo which seems a bit strange amongst other restrictions, but from a previous posting by someone am i to believe that if i can convert my British PPL in to a FAA licence and take a FAA medical then will that allow me to fly even as an insulin dependant a "G" reg aircraft?
Also don't bother contacting AOPA on this as that bunch of
want your money but the minute you want help/advice their far to busy saving the planet or what ever, needless to say i cancelled my membership with them
Upto The Buffers
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Karl, I'd be interested to see the reference for that. There are plenty of people flying both G and N reg aircraft on their FAA PPLs, carrying passengers in the UK.
Someone with an FAA license, an FAA medical and an FAA aircraft is regulated almost entirely by FAA regulations, no matter what country they fly in. That's how ICAO works.
Someone with an FAA license, an FAA medical and an FAA aircraft is regulated almost entirely by FAA regulations, no matter what country they fly in. That's how ICAO works.
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Well the website page http://www.pilotswithdiabetes.com/pages/usa.html was written by Douglas Cairns whom has flown himself around the world while being a type 1 diabetic
The American Diabetic Association:
I. Restrictions on medical certification:
A. Individuals may be issued only a third-class airman medical certificate.
B. Individuals may exercise only the privileges of a student, recreational, or private pilot certificate.
C. Individuals are prohibited from operating an aircraft as a required crewmember on any flight outside the airspace of the United States of America.
http://www.diabetes.org/advocacy-and...a_protocol.jsp
The American Diabetic Association:
I. Restrictions on medical certification:
A. Individuals may be issued only a third-class airman medical certificate.
B. Individuals may exercise only the privileges of a student, recreational, or private pilot certificate.
C. Individuals are prohibited from operating an aircraft as a required crewmember on any flight outside the airspace of the United States of America.
http://www.diabetes.org/advocacy-and...a_protocol.jsp
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Not that I am a CAA/FAA enforcer 
, I myself am a type 1 diabetic
and all for anyway to carry passengers in the UK
, but surely some people have either found a loop-hope or flying illegally?!
, I myself am a type 1 diabetic and all for anyway to carry passengers in the UK, but surely some people have either found a loop-hope or flying illegally?!
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people have either found a loop-hope or flying illegally
Thanks for the info CaptainKarl
I did some years ago find a loop hole where we could obtain a russian licence and fly with type 1 diabetes the snag was you had to do the air law exam again...in Russian! so that bollocked up that plan!!!
I did some years ago find a loop hole where we could obtain a russian licence and fly with type 1 diabetes the snag was you had to do the air law exam again...in Russian! so that bollocked up that plan!!!
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Type 1 Diabetes and flying
Hi all,
Just wondering if there are any airline pilots in Australia that have managed to retain a medical after being diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes?
Thanks,
ilikeplanes
Just wondering if there are any airline pilots in Australia that have managed to retain a medical after being diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes?
Thanks,
ilikeplanes
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Good friend of mine was battling a very well known case against CASA about a similar issue.He was fighting for his right to fly solo as a PPL with type 1 diabities but they wouldn't allow it unless he had a safety Pilot.So now after about 2 or more years of fighting, he has achieved success and can fly solo as a PPL.
CPL, especially airline flying would be out of the question as far as I'm aware.
qfskip
CPL, especially airline flying would be out of the question as far as I'm aware.
qfskip
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yeah qfskip I thought too that that might be the case. Although as you would know once upon a time any med condition pretty much grounded flight crew. Open heart surgery now is possible with a full return to duties in many cases. Colour blindness also spelt the end for some but it's not as critical these days.
CW
CW
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QFcaptain and Capt Wally,
Thanks for the replies. I know for a fact that it is happening elsewhere in the world - medical is renewed "as or with co-pilot only" in Canada. This is however, only for pilots who are already working for an airline in a multicrew environment that get diagnosed. I believe Air Canada currently has 5 type 1 diabetics employed as pilots. It is very tightly monitored and controlled, and pilots are subject to more frequent medicals etc, but has been going on since 2004. I was just wondering if CASA are as forward thinking as the Canadians. Type 1 is actually very managable, contrary to popular belief. And with the massive increase in Type 2 diabetes diagnoses (lifestyle and age being the primary factors) there is more research than ever into the disease.
QFcaptain, you mention your friend who won the right to fly solo with type 1. Surely you must agree with me that this practice is more risky than working in a multicrew environment (all things being equal)? So again, i'd love to hear of anyone that has been granted approval in Australia for multicrew commercial operations, ie airline pilots. With this such a hot topic in the news at the moment, i thought it'd be great to hear from pilots who may have gone through this.
ilikeplanes
Thanks for the replies. I know for a fact that it is happening elsewhere in the world - medical is renewed "as or with co-pilot only" in Canada. This is however, only for pilots who are already working for an airline in a multicrew environment that get diagnosed. I believe Air Canada currently has 5 type 1 diabetics employed as pilots. It is very tightly monitored and controlled, and pilots are subject to more frequent medicals etc, but has been going on since 2004. I was just wondering if CASA are as forward thinking as the Canadians. Type 1 is actually very managable, contrary to popular belief. And with the massive increase in Type 2 diabetes diagnoses (lifestyle and age being the primary factors) there is more research than ever into the disease.
QFcaptain, you mention your friend who won the right to fly solo with type 1. Surely you must agree with me that this practice is more risky than working in a multicrew environment (all things being equal)? So again, i'd love to hear of anyone that has been granted approval in Australia for multicrew commercial operations, ie airline pilots. With this such a hot topic in the news at the moment, i thought it'd be great to hear from pilots who may have gone through this.
ilikeplanes
First lets be sure we are talking about the same thing.
Type 1 diabetes means insulin dependency - no insulin, you die in 3 weeks. The danger with type 1 diabetics performing any solo function is a "hypo". A hypo is a low blood glucose level, below that at which full mental and physical functioning is assured, which can end in death if not properly treated. Far too many type 1s die from massive hypos. They are often unpredictable, so the major defence is "feel funny", but this is unreliable when emotions intrude. Hypos can often be spotted by a trained observer. Initially a hypo can be a lot like hypoxia - inability to concentrate, poor co ordination, fixed ideas prevail etc. Most hypos are easily treated, traditionally it was jelly beans but 150ml fruit juice poppers are about the best nowadays.
There are 2 main types of insulin therapy - injection and pumping. Injection, even basal/bolus therapy is a rather blunt instrument, meaning hypos are rather frequent and stability is patchy. Pumping is very good, giving tight control of BGL but emotions can still blow you out of the water unexpectedly. Pumps also allow more than 1 insulin delivery programme to be selected so regular sport, pre menstrual hormone variations etc. can be accommodated.
Until last month I was strongly in favour of stable pumpers being allowed to fly under tight conditions - low insulin programme for flight, BGL and good sized snack within 30 minutes prior to flight, max 2 hours in the air before BGL and snack - for the basics. Then my daughter, a very stable pumper, had a massive hypo "out of the blue" which nobody saw coming and for which there was no obvious reason. I mean massive, comatose, fitting, the whole bit. All within 1h30 of her last BGL (normal) and breakfast. Were she flying as sole pilot she would quite simply have crashed. Now I just don't know, but I would never allow any of the non pilots in my family to fly with a diabetic pilot because of this experience.
So the point is that I can't see CASA ever allowing type 1 diabetic pilots to fly solo or have a professional licence, the risks are just too great IMHO.
Type 1 diabetes means insulin dependency - no insulin, you die in 3 weeks. The danger with type 1 diabetics performing any solo function is a "hypo". A hypo is a low blood glucose level, below that at which full mental and physical functioning is assured, which can end in death if not properly treated. Far too many type 1s die from massive hypos. They are often unpredictable, so the major defence is "feel funny", but this is unreliable when emotions intrude. Hypos can often be spotted by a trained observer. Initially a hypo can be a lot like hypoxia - inability to concentrate, poor co ordination, fixed ideas prevail etc. Most hypos are easily treated, traditionally it was jelly beans but 150ml fruit juice poppers are about the best nowadays.
There are 2 main types of insulin therapy - injection and pumping. Injection, even basal/bolus therapy is a rather blunt instrument, meaning hypos are rather frequent and stability is patchy. Pumping is very good, giving tight control of BGL but emotions can still blow you out of the water unexpectedly. Pumps also allow more than 1 insulin delivery programme to be selected so regular sport, pre menstrual hormone variations etc. can be accommodated.
Until last month I was strongly in favour of stable pumpers being allowed to fly under tight conditions - low insulin programme for flight, BGL and good sized snack within 30 minutes prior to flight, max 2 hours in the air before BGL and snack - for the basics. Then my daughter, a very stable pumper, had a massive hypo "out of the blue" which nobody saw coming and for which there was no obvious reason. I mean massive, comatose, fitting, the whole bit. All within 1h30 of her last BGL (normal) and breakfast. Were she flying as sole pilot she would quite simply have crashed. Now I just don't know, but I would never allow any of the non pilots in my family to fly with a diabetic pilot because of this experience.
So the point is that I can't see CASA ever allowing type 1 diabetic pilots to fly solo or have a professional licence, the risks are just too great IMHO.
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No, sorry
Ilikeplanes
Unfortunatly not, CASA has ruled against this occuring. The case mentioned above not whistanding and the fact that the FAA(?) do allow some forms of daibeties for aircrew.
I know of a guy who developed type 1 as a mature adult, he lost his medical and subsequently his ATC rating. Mature onset type 1 is very nasty and you really should get some very good advice from your doc. My friend in the example above ended up loosing something a lot more valuable than his ATC rating!!
Pilots with Type 2 Diabeties are almost always restricted to two crew ops, where the second crew is endorsed on type. Basicaly as mentioned above.
I strongly sugest taliking to a DAME or give the CASA Medical branch a call and discuss it.
richo
Unfortunatly not, CASA has ruled against this occuring. The case mentioned above not whistanding and the fact that the FAA(?) do allow some forms of daibeties for aircrew.
I know of a guy who developed type 1 as a mature adult, he lost his medical and subsequently his ATC rating. Mature onset type 1 is very nasty and you really should get some very good advice from your doc. My friend in the example above ended up loosing something a lot more valuable than his ATC rating!!
Pilots with Type 2 Diabeties are almost always restricted to two crew ops, where the second crew is endorsed on type. Basicaly as mentioned above.
I strongly sugest taliking to a DAME or give the CASA Medical branch a call and discuss it.
richo
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Mustafagander:
The collection of pilots elsewhere in the world are pumpers as far as i'm aware. They must maintain their BGL's slightly higher than that which is recommended (ie approx 7mmol) for the majority of the time which is obviously designed to reduce the risk of hypos. The downside of this is that it can lead to complications later in life. They also must test their blood up to 15 times a day when flying, have their blood glucose in the correct range before takeoff and landing, and carry snacks such as juice or jellybeans, as mentioned, and longer lasting complex carbs just in case. They also must demonstrate a history of no major hypos in a period leading up to re-validating a medical.
Now of course, there is always the chance of a type 1 diabetic getting a hypo at any time, but with such strict control it limits this possibility. You said your daughter is a very stable pumper, yet i'm assuming that she isn't adhering to the above mentioned guidelines as she is not a pilot? I know that this puts diabetics at a higher risk of incapacitation than a non-diabetic, but isn't that true for people that may have had a heart operation, or are diagnosed as clinically depressed, or any number or illnesses that previously would cancel a medical. It is through research that we learn new ways to manage and treat conditions, and hence rules change.
Richo:
I find it strange that you say mature onset Type 1 diabetes is nasty - is this just from your friends' experience? Age has no bearing on the "nastiness" (for lack of a better word) of the condition. What can make it nasty is if it isn't picked up in time and damage has already occurred to vital organs. There is absolutely no reason why a normal healthy person who is diagnosed with type 1 can't live a long, active and normal (apart from the daily insulin) life. With the advent of insulin pumps, it makes this all the more possible.
ForkTailedDrKiller:
Care to elaborate?
Ask any doctor, nurse, diabetic educator, endocrinologist and they'll all tell you the same thing - type 1 diabetes is a managable condition which patients have very good control over. Yes, it can lead to scary incapacitation if not managed accordingly, but as i mentioned before, there are plenty of other conditions that have the possibility of doing the same. With so much research into diabetes worldwide, surely a change of attitudes and policy is on it's way?
The collection of pilots elsewhere in the world are pumpers as far as i'm aware. They must maintain their BGL's slightly higher than that which is recommended (ie approx 7mmol) for the majority of the time which is obviously designed to reduce the risk of hypos. The downside of this is that it can lead to complications later in life. They also must test their blood up to 15 times a day when flying, have their blood glucose in the correct range before takeoff and landing, and carry snacks such as juice or jellybeans, as mentioned, and longer lasting complex carbs just in case. They also must demonstrate a history of no major hypos in a period leading up to re-validating a medical.
Now of course, there is always the chance of a type 1 diabetic getting a hypo at any time, but with such strict control it limits this possibility. You said your daughter is a very stable pumper, yet i'm assuming that she isn't adhering to the above mentioned guidelines as she is not a pilot? I know that this puts diabetics at a higher risk of incapacitation than a non-diabetic, but isn't that true for people that may have had a heart operation, or are diagnosed as clinically depressed, or any number or illnesses that previously would cancel a medical. It is through research that we learn new ways to manage and treat conditions, and hence rules change.
Richo:
I find it strange that you say mature onset Type 1 diabetes is nasty - is this just from your friends' experience? Age has no bearing on the "nastiness" (for lack of a better word) of the condition. What can make it nasty is if it isn't picked up in time and damage has already occurred to vital organs. There is absolutely no reason why a normal healthy person who is diagnosed with type 1 can't live a long, active and normal (apart from the daily insulin) life. With the advent of insulin pumps, it makes this all the more possible.
ForkTailedDrKiller:
Care to elaborate?
Ask any doctor, nurse, diabetic educator, endocrinologist and they'll all tell you the same thing - type 1 diabetes is a managable condition which patients have very good control over. Yes, it can lead to scary incapacitation if not managed accordingly, but as i mentioned before, there are plenty of other conditions that have the possibility of doing the same. With so much research into diabetes worldwide, surely a change of attitudes and policy is on it's way?
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I think a few of you have already read this, but here is the link.
http://www.mckeown.com.au/articles/d...lots-final.htm
From what I can gather one win with the AAT does not make a precedent and each case must go through the execise of DAME etc to CASA Medical branch and then if you are knocked back, make your own submission to the AAT where any precedent is brought to the surface for comparison.
Thats my interpretation, but give the Barrister a call. He has had quiet a few wins of recent.
http://www.mckeown.com.au/articles/d...lots-final.htm
From what I can gather one win with the AAT does not make a precedent and each case must go through the execise of DAME etc to CASA Medical branch and then if you are knocked back, make your own submission to the AAT where any precedent is brought to the surface for comparison.
Thats my interpretation, but give the Barrister a call. He has had quiet a few wins of recent.
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Type 2 diabetes and flying
Ok so that covers Type 1 somewhat what about type 2 non-insulin dependant. Can they still hold a Class 1 Medical? Reason I ask is my mates son has Type 2 but is well controlled with diet only. He is wanting to get his CPL and be an instructor at this stage, but alas he is concerned about the Type 2.
Any comments or directions to this on CASA website. I have done a search for him, but the search function on the CASA website is not the friendliest...
Cheers
Mr B
Any comments or directions to this on CASA website. I have done a search for him, but the search function on the CASA website is not the friendliest...
Cheers
Mr B