Hot Mic's And Hearing
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Hot Mic's And Hearing
I fly for a uk scheduled/charter Airline and they use as standard practice the one ear on one ear off method when using headsets.
My AME picked up a degredation in my hearing in my left ear at my last medical which concerns me greatly as I am 27 and potentialy have 30 years of flying ahead of me subject to health etc etc.
My question is, why do Airlines persist in this practice of operating one ear uncovered when all modern jet/turboprop a/c are fitted with pretty good hot mic systems that dramaticaly reduce the volume levels required from the radio kit. One reason I thought of is that it is a throwback to the days of flight engineers when the pilots made need to hear his comments about relevent systems. Another is that it is so you can hear the cabin crew when the come into the flight deck (although this is much harder when you are being blasted in one ear by a busy London ATC station).
At my previous company (flying turboprops) we used a fairly good system of hot mic off on the ground until after engine start and ground crew disconnection then hot mic on thereafter, it served to reduce environmental noise greatly and the lower radio volume levels were much less fatigueing on a long day.
Anybody elses thoughts on this matter would be warmly received, It would be good to hear from any AME's too.
My AME picked up a degredation in my hearing in my left ear at my last medical which concerns me greatly as I am 27 and potentialy have 30 years of flying ahead of me subject to health etc etc.
My question is, why do Airlines persist in this practice of operating one ear uncovered when all modern jet/turboprop a/c are fitted with pretty good hot mic systems that dramaticaly reduce the volume levels required from the radio kit. One reason I thought of is that it is a throwback to the days of flight engineers when the pilots made need to hear his comments about relevent systems. Another is that it is so you can hear the cabin crew when the come into the flight deck (although this is much harder when you are being blasted in one ear by a busy London ATC station).
At my previous company (flying turboprops) we used a fairly good system of hot mic off on the ground until after engine start and ground crew disconnection then hot mic on thereafter, it served to reduce environmental noise greatly and the lower radio volume levels were much less fatigueing on a long day.
Anybody elses thoughts on this matter would be warmly received, It would be good to hear from any AME's too.
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Understandably this will worry you but don't let it if you can. My AME said he is not aware of anyone who has had their medical pulled for poor hearing alone. If you start to really struggle on audiograms with the AME then the next step is that you would do a trip with a line trainer who would hopefully certify you as still being competent with listening/comms and you will be allowed to continue to fly! If you had the volume on the audio panel turned up fully and you were still struggling to hear the R/T then I would be worried - otherwise put it behind you. I presume that the uncovered ear is the one that came off worse?
I think the CAA and the AMEs often forget that we work in environments that can be noisy and some employers might not take enough steps to look after our hearing etc etc. How many turboprop airlines provide noise cancelling headsets for their crew to use??
I think the current rules are a bit old in the tooth - all we need to do is to be able to hear normal conversations in both ears. Afterall when do ATC whisper a instruction to us???!!!
I think the CAA and the AMEs often forget that we work in environments that can be noisy and some employers might not take enough steps to look after our hearing etc etc. How many turboprop airlines provide noise cancelling headsets for their crew to use??
I think the current rules are a bit old in the tooth - all we need to do is to be able to hear normal conversations in both ears. Afterall when do ATC whisper a instruction to us???!!!
Psychophysiological entity
With respect, that's not the point.
This young person does not want to have degraded hearing...period. Some of my old (ex-bomber) captains used to ask me to use the one ear uncovered method. I just could never understand the reason for it. We were on modern jet transport, but the white noise was horrible, and the ‘say agains' to ATC and each other were routine. Just daft.
I think the medical side is one thing, but that this question could perhaps be asked on R&N. In the meantime, do have a full check with an appropriate specialist.
This young person does not want to have degraded hearing...period. Some of my old (ex-bomber) captains used to ask me to use the one ear uncovered method. I just could never understand the reason for it. We were on modern jet transport, but the white noise was horrible, and the ‘say agains' to ATC and each other were routine. Just daft.
I think the medical side is one thing, but that this question could perhaps be asked on R&N. In the meantime, do have a full check with an appropriate specialist.
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Thanks for the replys thus far, I hope a few more people reply to give a more general idea of the problem (if there is one) and other peoples experiences.
For the record my AME thinks airlines are boardering on being negligent with regards to health and safety relating to this apparently common practice.
As an experiment I suggested to a captain I flew with a few days ago that we "try" the hot mic, he was keen and we had a very pleasant flight with a reduction in volumes of approx 20% with no missed or mis-heard calls.
Can somebody offer any sensible reasons FOR using the one ear off method ???
For the record my AME thinks airlines are boardering on being negligent with regards to health and safety relating to this apparently common practice.
As an experiment I suggested to a captain I flew with a few days ago that we "try" the hot mic, he was keen and we had a very pleasant flight with a reduction in volumes of approx 20% with no missed or mis-heard calls.
Can somebody offer any sensible reasons FOR using the one ear off method ???
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There are headsets around that have a volume control for each ear.
One volume can be up for coms, one volume can be down, perhaps satisfying the "one ear off" SOP but still giving you hearing protection.
Good luck.
One volume can be up for coms, one volume can be down, perhaps satisfying the "one ear off" SOP but still giving you hearing protection.
Good luck.
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Alternatively, could you try a set of 'made to measure' ear plugs? These are very good and reduce the ambient noise that causes damage but will allow you to hear your colleague perfectly well.
These are used with some success in KLM (who insist on using a crappy Telex lite headset in a noisy cockpit) and they do seem to stop the nasty noise. I don't know how much they cost exactly as mine were provided, but I think they are circa £150 to have them made. It is the filter within them that is important and the fact that they are fitted to your ears means there is no noise leakage.
I am sure this would satisfy your company SOP.
These are used with some success in KLM (who insist on using a crappy Telex lite headset in a noisy cockpit) and they do seem to stop the nasty noise. I don't know how much they cost exactly as mine were provided, but I think they are circa £150 to have them made. It is the filter within them that is important and the fact that they are fitted to your ears means there is no noise leakage.
I am sure this would satisfy your company SOP.
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AUDITORY INTEGRATION - ONE EAR ON etc.
A quick/brief response - a human requires to hear equally in both ears to allow the brain to correctly process "INTEGRATE" the sounds intially coming through the auditory canal (ear holes).
This requirement for correct human functioning is still not well understood by many "experts" that perpetuate the myths that allow 'the misguided' to force Pilots, and many other Operators (including some with command of weapons) to have differential signals sent to their Headsets/Helmets. By differential I mean seperate audio information in each ear that has to be processed and integrated 100% accurately otherwise errors can occur. And in aviation that can have very serious outcomes....e.g "friendly fire" or failure to respond in time to an emergency indication either via electronic audio or via someone else in the cockpit voicing their instructions (or shouting when no action is apparent by the person at the controls).
Differential would also include "one ear on/one ear off"......
I have just "scratched the surface" here.
This is a very misunderstood and vitally important topic that needs a lot more dissemination of correct information amongst 'thinking Pilots/Instructors/Administrators'.
This requirement for correct human functioning is still not well understood by many "experts" that perpetuate the myths that allow 'the misguided' to force Pilots, and many other Operators (including some with command of weapons) to have differential signals sent to their Headsets/Helmets. By differential I mean seperate audio information in each ear that has to be processed and integrated 100% accurately otherwise errors can occur. And in aviation that can have very serious outcomes....e.g "friendly fire" or failure to respond in time to an emergency indication either via electronic audio or via someone else in the cockpit voicing their instructions (or shouting when no action is apparent by the person at the controls).
Differential would also include "one ear on/one ear off"......
I have just "scratched the surface" here.
This is a very misunderstood and vitally important topic that needs a lot more dissemination of correct information amongst 'thinking Pilots/Instructors/Administrators'.
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I think you've just made a very valid point. I find cockpit(jet) noise tiring and a good anr set with intercom is bliss, especially across africa for 7 hours listening to hf and vhf repeaters that sound like the microphone is inside a metal bucket. Anr sets allow half the volume and twice the discrimination on the radio. I can see an argument for leaving one ear off on the take off roll just in case some engine abnormality manifests itself audibly before anything else, but in the cruise...why go deaf if you dont have to?
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Whats up guys, was just reading this thread and have a question for ya. This is mainly for "Mister Geezer" but anyone can jump on it. Um i was just wondering about your comment about nobody you know has ever been failed due to poor hearing alone, im 16 now and was born with a slight hearing loss in my right ear. Ive always wanted to be a pilot and was worried about this being a possible set back. I guess im asking when i go for my Category 1 medical (when im 18 or so) do you think this hearing loss will be a problem, im very fit and healthy in every other aspect. Can anyone shed some light on this situation?
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interestingly it is not usually the uncovered ear that shows signs of hearing loss. It is usually the other ear as a result of the increased volume on the ear that is covered.
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Stop Stop Stop,
Are you refering to the Elacin brand of musicians earplugs?
Are you refering to the Elacin brand of musicians earplugs?
Last edited by Bad medicine; 19th Sep 2006 at 15:41. Reason: Commercial link removed
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In this business, just like a good pair of sunglasses which are essential, these are essential also if you value your hearing. Just like the special offers in the shops...Once it's gone- it's gone! It may well be the best £164 you spend!
Hope this helps.
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Hot mic in Boeing 757
I experience hearing loss in my right ear. In my company I could use hot mic, if it was available. Does anybody know how to get the hot mic switch for the 757? My upgrade may depend on it.
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Thanks for the reply STOP STOP STOP!
I've been thinking about having a set of these earplugs made, but haven't really heard (yes I know, not the best pun
) any comments on how easy it is to hear other crew members. Your post helps.
Do you use the 9dB, 15dB or 25 dB type?
Cosmo
I've been thinking about having a set of these earplugs made, but haven't really heard (yes I know, not the best pun
) any comments on how easy it is to hear other crew members. Your post helps.Do you use the 9dB, 15dB or 25 dB type?
Cosmo
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Hi Cosmo...I have to say, I really don't know. These were made by the company for us in Holland and if you were a pilot, you got "the best filters" as I was told. I would suggest that if you are interested in a pair of these that you contact an Elacin representative and explain your concerns and I am sure that they will be able to advise you accordingly.
As for what you can hear, it is absolutely fine. You will hear your colleague fart on the flightdeck but the loud fatiguing noise is removed (of the aeroplane that is!). You can certainly hear all ambient sounds, such as warnings and Cabin Crew talking to you- no need to remove the earplug When you speak it does seem to you to be a bit muffled but you get used to it.
I would advise going for a set. What price do you put on your hearing?
As for what you can hear, it is absolutely fine. You will hear your colleague fart on the flightdeck but the loud fatiguing noise is removed (of the aeroplane that is!). You can certainly hear all ambient sounds, such as warnings and Cabin Crew talking to you- no need to remove the earplug When you speak it does seem to you to be a bit muffled but you get used to it.
I would advise going for a set. What price do you put on your hearing?
