Melatonin for sleep??
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
Melatonin for sleep??
Following quite a bit of discussion on sleep problems, I have recently been introduced to a "natural" remedy...Melatonin.
It seems to be the antithesis of some ‘sleepers' discussed recently, inasmuch as it causes long dream filled nights, and indeed the desire to sleep in until midday.
With very small quantities, I have had such nights, and I wondered if they would in some way offset the short-term sleepers that I fear might leave one with insufficient REM time.
I have to say that I have been astounded by their effect, but it is too soon to draw any conclusions. Also, I don't feel particularly physically rested after dreaming so much.
Like any ‘catching up' on REM sleep, it may be that after a few nights the dreams will go down to a normal level. I have not tested them for more than 3 nights in a row yet.
I would be interested in the observations of any other folk that have tried this product. LR
It seems to be the antithesis of some ‘sleepers' discussed recently, inasmuch as it causes long dream filled nights, and indeed the desire to sleep in until midday.
With very small quantities, I have had such nights, and I wondered if they would in some way offset the short-term sleepers that I fear might leave one with insufficient REM time.
I have to say that I have been astounded by their effect, but it is too soon to draw any conclusions. Also, I don't feel particularly physically rested after dreaming so much.
Like any ‘catching up' on REM sleep, it may be that after a few nights the dreams will go down to a normal level. I have not tested them for more than 3 nights in a row yet.
I would be interested in the observations of any other folk that have tried this product. LR
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Before this thread slips off the page...have a look here, archives for Medical forum and previous discussions...quite a bit more in the other forums from what I can recall.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/search....by=&sortorder=
http://www.pprune.org/forums/search....by=&sortorder=
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Psychophysiological entity
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Interesting. Thank's for the links.
I'm surprised that I missed them...one of the problems of being interested in too many things I guess. But still, it does seem to tally with my reaction of having complex dreams.
One dream (on the first night) was very, very vivid and what might be called semi-lucid, inasmuch as I seemed to have some control over the playlet.
Since I'm not flying now, I might be tempted to take very small quantities out of curiosity.
Some of the latest findings on dreaming and REM are rather surprising, and seem to contradict the established thinking.
Tylenol PM. I feel that this type of substance should be fully absorbed before going horizontal. Personally, taking this--and then lying down--would be a formula for a sore-spot somewhere just North of my gut. But then, I'm one of those that can not tolerate aspirin.
I'm surprised that I missed them...one of the problems of being interested in too many things I guess. But still, it does seem to tally with my reaction of having complex dreams.
One dream (on the first night) was very, very vivid and what might be called semi-lucid, inasmuch as I seemed to have some control over the playlet.
Since I'm not flying now, I might be tempted to take very small quantities out of curiosity.
Some of the latest findings on dreaming and REM are rather surprising, and seem to contradict the established thinking.
Tylenol PM. I feel that this type of substance should be fully absorbed before going horizontal. Personally, taking this--and then lying down--would be a formula for a sore-spot somewhere just North of my gut. But then, I'm one of those that can not tolerate aspirin.
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My two cents worth...about 10 years ago I was in St.Petersburg Florida on a sun-surf-s#@ holiday with my ex. We noticed melatonin on display at the local drugstore. Being frozen heads, we knew nothing about this so we read the label and bought a bottle each. 2 mg I think it was per tablet. Since we had a couple drinks that night, I thought rather than finding us stiff the next day, we shared one on a trial basis. 12 hours of extremely vivid dreams and a lost morning while we stumbled about.
We figured it was pretty neat and wanted a continuation that night so only had a beer and popped one each. 14 hours later and pretty well the whole day gone. That bottle lasted me about three years because I ended up cutting each tablet in quarters and that was good enough for those sleepless nights. Mornings were rough though. Pouring milk into the coffee maker and putting the empty cup in the fridge type of morning.
We figured it was pretty neat and wanted a continuation that night so only had a beer and popped one each. 14 hours later and pretty well the whole day gone. That bottle lasted me about three years because I ended up cutting each tablet in quarters and that was good enough for those sleepless nights. Mornings were rough though. Pouring milk into the coffee maker and putting the empty cup in the fridge type of morning.
Psychophysiological entity
Thread Starter
Well, this thread has certainly shown the value of this forum. Airing information like this must help people make informed decisions.
Although some people may have been taking it successfully for some time, it is evident that to take it for the first time–and then fly as a pilot–would be extremely dangerous.
I took a very small quantity again the other night, ( c 1mg ) but woke at the usual 03:30. I then took a small quantity of Zolpidem, curious to know how the two ‘opposites' would mix. The result was very good. I intend to try it cautiously again several times, but I am in the position that I don't even have to drive a car for several house after waking...or at all if I feel groggy.
There is very little science involved in what I'm doing of course.
The article on REM sleep research was in the current edition of Sci-Am's MIND. www.sciammind.com
Although some people may have been taking it successfully for some time, it is evident that to take it for the first time–and then fly as a pilot–would be extremely dangerous.
I took a very small quantity again the other night, ( c 1mg ) but woke at the usual 03:30. I then took a small quantity of Zolpidem, curious to know how the two ‘opposites' would mix. The result was very good. I intend to try it cautiously again several times, but I am in the position that I don't even have to drive a car for several house after waking...or at all if I feel groggy.
There is very little science involved in what I'm doing of course.
The article on REM sleep research was in the current edition of Sci-Am's MIND. www.sciammind.com
Melatonin
I fly long haul (NY based) east to Europe, west to the Pacific and Asia and some South America, and used to have a hard time sleeping at night in Europe.
Commonly woke up at 0230 with an 0800 meet with no chance of falling back to sleep.
Suffered through some very long days westbound. No problem eastbound as it just seems like a late night.
I tried Ambien with bad results, then Melatonin and a couple of glasses of wine plus not trying to go to sleep to early and it has done just the trick.
I now get 4-4.5 hrs in the morning when we get in and the same later that night.
Anything that's legal and does the trick is worthwhile.
Commonly woke up at 0230 with an 0800 meet with no chance of falling back to sleep.
Suffered through some very long days westbound. No problem eastbound as it just seems like a late night.
I tried Ambien with bad results, then Melatonin and a couple of glasses of wine plus not trying to go to sleep to early and it has done just the trick.
I now get 4-4.5 hrs in the morning when we get in and the same later that night.
Anything that's legal and does the trick is worthwhile.
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I was introduced to Melatonin by my US Flight Surgeon whilst on exchange with the US Navy and Marines. He was very much into his alternative remedies and recommended them to me for the routine internal trips east/west coast and for the trips back to the UK.
Absolutely great. No side effects, fully rested.
I also used them in 2003 during the Gulf conflict where I went from normal sleep cycles to flying the 'dawn patrol' whereby I needed to sleep from 1400(L) until 2300(L) and then get up to start my day.
Absolutely great. No side effects, fully rested.
I mention the two scenarios to add that in my case, the environment (benign passenger airline flying versus not-quite-so-benign combat flying) did not alter the restful sleep I achieved.
Of note, I was significantly more rested than other aircrew, particularly the Americans, who were allowed to take temazepam (this included the Brits) and I believe some kind of 'upper' (not the Brits) to counter the 'grogginess' some felt after use of temazepam. On the last note of uppers, I apologise for the phraseology, I am not a medical professional and only go on anecdotal evidence of use and description.
The bottom line is that my experience has been very positive.
Interesting article http://www.priory.com/mel.htm
Absolutely great. No side effects, fully rested.
I also used them in 2003 during the Gulf conflict where I went from normal sleep cycles to flying the 'dawn patrol' whereby I needed to sleep from 1400(L) until 2300(L) and then get up to start my day.
Absolutely great. No side effects, fully rested.
I mention the two scenarios to add that in my case, the environment (benign passenger airline flying versus not-quite-so-benign combat flying) did not alter the restful sleep I achieved.
Of note, I was significantly more rested than other aircrew, particularly the Americans, who were allowed to take temazepam (this included the Brits) and I believe some kind of 'upper' (not the Brits) to counter the 'grogginess' some felt after use of temazepam. On the last note of uppers, I apologise for the phraseology, I am not a medical professional and only go on anecdotal evidence of use and description.
The bottom line is that my experience has been very positive.
Interesting article http://www.priory.com/mel.htm
Last edited by FB11; 11th Jul 2005 at 10:04.
