anxiety,am I alone
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Neurolinguistic Programming (NLP) is used by psychologists and psychiatrists throughout the world, as Hawk has said.
With respect, saying anything along the lines of NLP only being used in personal enhancement smacks of knowing absolutely nothing about it apart from secondhand information.
Trentino,
If I was going to go to someone trained in NLP, I would give the following advice:
1. Go to the best - Master Practioner or (Master) Trainer if possible.
2. Ensure they are certified by the Society of NLP - this was formed by Richard Bandler.
Conf
With respect, saying anything along the lines of NLP only being used in personal enhancement smacks of knowing absolutely nothing about it apart from secondhand information.
Trentino,
If I was going to go to someone trained in NLP, I would give the following advice:
1. Go to the best - Master Practioner or (Master) Trainer if possible.
2. Ensure they are certified by the Society of NLP - this was formed by Richard Bandler.
Conf
pneumono
ultramicroscopic
silicovolcano
coniosis
ultramicroscopic
silicovolcano
coniosis
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I neither wish to offend nor argue about this subject and I offer my respectful apologies if I have done so.
I've looked up a few links that I hope may prove of value to anybody trying to make up their own minds on what might be the best course treatment for themselves.
The Society of Neuro Linguistic Programming
The London NLP & Hypnosis Practice Group
Richard Bandler's Site
Kings College London Institute of Psychiatry at the Maudlsey
British Association for Behavioural & Cognitive Psychotherapies - What is CBT?
CBT - The Basics
These are probably good starting points for anybody wishing to do some research. I do hope they are of some help.
It would be good to see people add to the list if they find anything of value.
I send you all very warm regards,
GS.
I've looked up a few links that I hope may prove of value to anybody trying to make up their own minds on what might be the best course treatment for themselves.
The Society of Neuro Linguistic Programming
The London NLP & Hypnosis Practice Group
Richard Bandler's Site
Kings College London Institute of Psychiatry at the Maudlsey
British Association for Behavioural & Cognitive Psychotherapies - What is CBT?
CBT - The Basics
These are probably good starting points for anybody wishing to do some research. I do hope they are of some help.
It would be good to see people add to the list if they find anything of value.
I send you all very warm regards,
GS.
Last edited by Go Smoke; 23rd Mar 2005 at 13:10.
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i had the misfortune of being the captain of a flight in which a ground handler walked into the no.2 spinning propeller ( ground idle power ) killing himself. i was not blamed after investigation but
since then i have recurrent visions of similar fatal accidents, all in my imagination, but this has caused me enough anxiety to fail an airbus course and sim evaluations in the 737 for captain up-grade. i can say that since the death my performance and INTEREST in aviation have diminished and there is certainly no room in this business to openly express it without serious consequences. Therefore i am also considering quitting flying but at my half century what else can i do ?
thanks to you all for opening up, it has allowed me to do the same.
since then i have recurrent visions of similar fatal accidents, all in my imagination, but this has caused me enough anxiety to fail an airbus course and sim evaluations in the 737 for captain up-grade. i can say that since the death my performance and INTEREST in aviation have diminished and there is certainly no room in this business to openly express it without serious consequences. Therefore i am also considering quitting flying but at my half century what else can i do ?
thanks to you all for opening up, it has allowed me to do the same.
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Meatball, im so sorry to hear about your tragic event, I believe what occurred to you was far worst than what happened to me but have you considered treatment or changing life habits? Since quitting the airlines I started exercise and better eating as well as st. johns wort..now ofcourse this is no replacement for concrete help but it helps..it helped me, i can actually fly, enjoy myself on some flights and make money.
Maybe if you change some other life habits you can overcome this.
After gathering tons of advice from people experienced in anxiety/depression I learned that while flying was causing my anxiety(and boy was it bad) it wasnt the root.
it looks like in this situation you are suffering from PTSD(post traumatic stress)...you have to come to the realisation that you are truly innocent of any wrong doing.
Maybe some ways to help yourself is to get counseling on how you view death and maybe even life in general.
I speak from experience in all of this...please forgive me if i am overstepping any boundaries with the above
Maybe if you change some other life habits you can overcome this.
After gathering tons of advice from people experienced in anxiety/depression I learned that while flying was causing my anxiety(and boy was it bad) it wasnt the root.
it looks like in this situation you are suffering from PTSD(post traumatic stress)...you have to come to the realisation that you are truly innocent of any wrong doing.
Maybe some ways to help yourself is to get counseling on how you view death and maybe even life in general.
I speak from experience in all of this...please forgive me if i am overstepping any boundaries with the above
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I have been living with depression & anxiety for many years & in the end it forced me to give up flying as a senior flight attendant. I just couldn't handle the pax & cabin crew anticts anymore & was having to really concentrate hard on the job to make it through the flight, so far from the days where I would laugh & just enjoy being with all the crew. I started having to go to the washrooms to calm down & try to focus, it made me feel terribly ashamed. Unfortuantely cabin crew, although in a caring profession, can be very judgmental & cruel about folk, so I got out before anything major happened like a panic attack. Thats what scared me the most, being infront of a sea of faces in a supervisory position & freaking out in front of everybody. I miss it bad sometimes & having built up 18 yrs experience could have gone on to greater things in the training & management side, but the anxiety & depression just keeps getting in the way.
I feel for anyone who has this horribly debilitating problem, if you don't get it sorted it can really screw your life up.
I feel for anyone who has this horribly debilitating problem, if you don't get it sorted it can really screw your life up.
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As you can tell by the responses, you are definitely not alone. Only recently (within the last 10 years) have feelings of depression, anxiety, etc., been openly acknowledged as a serious illness with even more serious consequences. For too long, people were afraid to acknowledge their feelings, much less to share them with others, in fear of being laughed at or shipped off to the "loony" bin.
Before other medical problems forced me to retire, I had horrible, life altering, anxiety. Though not as bad as most. When I was on the flight deck, either working or jumpseating, nothing bothered me. But for unknown reasons, I developed serious problems when riding in the passenger cabin, of all things! And, to make it worse, I commuted to my base. Before boarding, I would start trembling in fear. Inflight, I would hold on to the arm rest, have cold sweats, trouble breathing, horrible fears of turbulence, weather, system failures, you name it. Many times I would drive 10 hours to avoid the 45 minute flight. Once, when faced with deadheading home, in the passenger cabin, for a 4 hour flight, I bought a ticket on Amtrak for a 3day ride on the train (which I thoroughly enjoyed, btw).
I firmly believe that these feelings led to the strokes that grounded my career. I was in good shape, lots of exercise, workout, running, good diet, no smoking, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of heart disease. I did seek medical help, psychiatric help, alternative therapies for my anxieties, and nothing helped. Today, 6 years later, I still wont get on an airplane. Funny, isn't it?
There are now many programs and options available for help. I hope you will seek some of them. It's encouraging that you are opening up, talking about it, sharing your thoughts. I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to EM or email me at any time.
Before other medical problems forced me to retire, I had horrible, life altering, anxiety. Though not as bad as most. When I was on the flight deck, either working or jumpseating, nothing bothered me. But for unknown reasons, I developed serious problems when riding in the passenger cabin, of all things! And, to make it worse, I commuted to my base. Before boarding, I would start trembling in fear. Inflight, I would hold on to the arm rest, have cold sweats, trouble breathing, horrible fears of turbulence, weather, system failures, you name it. Many times I would drive 10 hours to avoid the 45 minute flight. Once, when faced with deadheading home, in the passenger cabin, for a 4 hour flight, I bought a ticket on Amtrak for a 3day ride on the train (which I thoroughly enjoyed, btw).
I firmly believe that these feelings led to the strokes that grounded my career. I was in good shape, lots of exercise, workout, running, good diet, no smoking, normal blood pressure and cholesterol, no history of heart disease. I did seek medical help, psychiatric help, alternative therapies for my anxieties, and nothing helped. Today, 6 years later, I still wont get on an airplane. Funny, isn't it?
There are now many programs and options available for help. I hope you will seek some of them. It's encouraging that you are opening up, talking about it, sharing your thoughts. I wish you the best of luck. Feel free to EM or email me at any time.
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Anxiety
If you continue down this road you may lose your medical.There are tons of self help books avaiable for this,further to this line flying is quite boring allowing the mind to constantly wonder.Perhaps try another type of flying.
Psyc stuff the regulaters don,t like that to much.So don,t talk to you doctor upon renewal,about this.
Psyc stuff the regulaters don,t like that to much.So don,t talk to you doctor upon renewal,about this.
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Trentino
I am sorry for all of you and the course that life sometimes leads. I have been in this game nearly 26yrs. My wife left me after 13yrs and 2 days before sim. Like a fool I went for it and failed within 10 mins. Devastating, having never failed before. The Doc said it was not a "medical" problem. Refer to the Chief Pilot. Not so easy as it is personal, but I did. I was given 10 days "off", but the last 5, had to go do office work. Not appreciated initially, but, it took the mind off the personal problems. I re-sat and passed, the sim ride. Looking back, my airline did the right thing, and only flew with experienced F/O's for a few weeks.They gave me some grieving time, but put me back to work asap, and it definately helped. At the end of the day, the people I work for, cared enough, the good friends I have, cared, my family cared, and above all, my children. I HAD to stop feeling sorry for myself, for them especially,and get on with it. I still have my moments, but as was mentioned, time heals. All the best, and hope, one day, you feel you can fly again.
tic
I am sorry for all of you and the course that life sometimes leads. I have been in this game nearly 26yrs. My wife left me after 13yrs and 2 days before sim. Like a fool I went for it and failed within 10 mins. Devastating, having never failed before. The Doc said it was not a "medical" problem. Refer to the Chief Pilot. Not so easy as it is personal, but I did. I was given 10 days "off", but the last 5, had to go do office work. Not appreciated initially, but, it took the mind off the personal problems. I re-sat and passed, the sim ride. Looking back, my airline did the right thing, and only flew with experienced F/O's for a few weeks.They gave me some grieving time, but put me back to work asap, and it definately helped. At the end of the day, the people I work for, cared enough, the good friends I have, cared, my family cared, and above all, my children. I HAD to stop feeling sorry for myself, for them especially,and get on with it. I still have my moments, but as was mentioned, time heals. All the best, and hope, one day, you feel you can fly again.
tic
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hey guys, i am flying again and little by little the anxiety is going down, i am currently a cfi again and sometimes the anxiety hits me in flight....especially when i am flying with young kids...18 and younger...i get this feeling that their wellbeing is totally in my hands, and it is! I am learning little by little to control it and the good thing that i remember is that anxiety is totally harmless... this relieves me and makes me breathe easier...
Looking back at these posts that i am seeing, i realise that i dont have it so bad, alot of guys in here have it worst than myself and i fly eachday with this in mind and consider myself lucky...this post should be redirected to these individuals much more affected than myself.
Looking back at these posts that i am seeing, i realise that i dont have it so bad, alot of guys in here have it worst than myself and i fly eachday with this in mind and consider myself lucky...this post should be redirected to these individuals much more affected than myself.
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That's fantastic news Trentino, welcome back to aviation.
Congratulations on beating your own private demon. We knew that you could do it, even if you didn't realise it at the time. Now you do know, and through your honesty, many others can take heart that this is a quite normal and totally surmountable problem.
You've been very honest in saying that you still have some residual, but manageable anxiety - that's normal, Rome wasn't built in a day. A private suggestion, from personal experience, in your heightened mental state before the demon recedes forever, it is easy to react a little too quickly and impulsively to non-urgent operational situations. Sit on your hands (mentally), analyse, and respond appropriately.
To the still extant sufferers 'out there' who still suffer, take heart from Trentino's victory, and never forget the doctor's advice to the little girl who swallowed the prune seed - "IT WILL PASS".
Best Regards,
Old Smokey
Congratulations on beating your own private demon. We knew that you could do it, even if you didn't realise it at the time. Now you do know, and through your honesty, many others can take heart that this is a quite normal and totally surmountable problem.
You've been very honest in saying that you still have some residual, but manageable anxiety - that's normal, Rome wasn't built in a day. A private suggestion, from personal experience, in your heightened mental state before the demon recedes forever, it is easy to react a little too quickly and impulsively to non-urgent operational situations. Sit on your hands (mentally), analyse, and respond appropriately.
To the still extant sufferers 'out there' who still suffer, take heart from Trentino's victory, and never forget the doctor's advice to the little girl who swallowed the prune seed - "IT WILL PASS".
Best Regards,
Old Smokey
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Hey there Old Smokey, i must credit you with giving me more of a boost..its so comforting to know an experienced guy had something like this and overcame it, it gave me the fuel i needed when i thought i was running dry....
Just to tell you guys how i was at one point and how i am now...take a look and see if you fit in this
before controlling anxiety
1. Very tight chested, angry, short on breathe, total lack of confidence in yourself and the airplane, feeling like you are unable to perform to the task, feeling dizzy, tingly extremities (spelling) feeling dread at the idea of another flight....forgetfullness because of your preocupation..the list goes on.....
if this was you there is a way to overcome it and if a guy like me can make the progress i did, anyone can
heres how i did it....i went to the doctor...he told me things i knew but comming from an 'm.d' it made it 'official'
the things i was told were...anxiety is totally harmless, it cannot kill you even though it feels like it could.....any dizziness or spasm or any other side effect is simply caused by adrenaline which, in high amounts for a long time will make you feel sick..at the moment you feel an attack come on..
A. control breathing...deep breathe, hold it and release
B. talk to youself outloud or silently...remind yourself that you are a good pilot and the key is.. BELIEVE YOURSELF! ##
I was told by doctors that the key to anxiety relief is directly related to positive reinforcement....( what a great day this is, i am lucky to be flying, i am a good pilot, i can handle anything thrown at me) This worked for me very well.
C. While positive reinforcement is key...it will not help you without exposure exposure esposure....to overcome your demon you must kill it yourself, dont run away ( like i almost did)
Ok....now only a few months later after following the techniques above i can honestly say that i feel the exact opposite of what i wrote in top paragraphs....remember you are more powerful than you realise and UNDERSTAND THIS.... if you are reading this paragraph it means you care too much about flying to give it up, so go out and do what you used to love to do and make it your love again
p.s excuse my poor sentence structure, i just flew 6 hours and i am too tired to put it in order
Just to tell you guys how i was at one point and how i am now...take a look and see if you fit in this
before controlling anxiety
1. Very tight chested, angry, short on breathe, total lack of confidence in yourself and the airplane, feeling like you are unable to perform to the task, feeling dizzy, tingly extremities (spelling) feeling dread at the idea of another flight....forgetfullness because of your preocupation..the list goes on.....
if this was you there is a way to overcome it and if a guy like me can make the progress i did, anyone can
heres how i did it....i went to the doctor...he told me things i knew but comming from an 'm.d' it made it 'official'
the things i was told were...anxiety is totally harmless, it cannot kill you even though it feels like it could.....any dizziness or spasm or any other side effect is simply caused by adrenaline which, in high amounts for a long time will make you feel sick..at the moment you feel an attack come on..
A. control breathing...deep breathe, hold it and release
B. talk to youself outloud or silently...remind yourself that you are a good pilot and the key is.. BELIEVE YOURSELF! ##
I was told by doctors that the key to anxiety relief is directly related to positive reinforcement....( what a great day this is, i am lucky to be flying, i am a good pilot, i can handle anything thrown at me) This worked for me very well.
C. While positive reinforcement is key...it will not help you without exposure exposure esposure....to overcome your demon you must kill it yourself, dont run away ( like i almost did)
Ok....now only a few months later after following the techniques above i can honestly say that i feel the exact opposite of what i wrote in top paragraphs....remember you are more powerful than you realise and UNDERSTAND THIS.... if you are reading this paragraph it means you care too much about flying to give it up, so go out and do what you used to love to do and make it your love again
p.s excuse my poor sentence structure, i just flew 6 hours and i am too tired to put it in order
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Well done Trentino
I went flying by myself for the first time in months a week ago and had yet another anxiety attack. However this time I managed it and let it pass instead of panicking and wanting to return and land asap.
I felt good that I had achieved this and I am not so bothered about the thought of flying single pilot in the future.
I cannot underestimate the help exercise has given me in overcoming this.
Just like you, I believe that I will overcome this and continue my career.
Cheers
I went flying by myself for the first time in months a week ago and had yet another anxiety attack. However this time I managed it and let it pass instead of panicking and wanting to return and land asap.
I felt good that I had achieved this and I am not so bothered about the thought of flying single pilot in the future.
I cannot underestimate the help exercise has given me in overcoming this.
Just like you, I believe that I will overcome this and continue my career.
Cheers
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Hey there Dr. Rudi I am very happy for you that you were able to overcome this even though you did have another attack.
The fact you had an attack and that you faced it and let it subside is incredibly important.
When you experience the attack and fight it off you are actually conditioning yourself to eradicate anxiety forever...
The most harmful thing you can do with anxiety is to run from it.
When you run you are conditioning yourself to allow anxiety to live side by side with you.
I am confident that with every solo flight you take, anxiety will have less and less of a grip on you.. Eventually Dr. you will notice an improvement in all areas of flying, even with Multi crew flying.
I felt it was important not to PM the above message so that other pilots (those who would rather not admit they have this) to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
The fact you had an attack and that you faced it and let it subside is incredibly important.
When you experience the attack and fight it off you are actually conditioning yourself to eradicate anxiety forever...
The most harmful thing you can do with anxiety is to run from it.
When you run you are conditioning yourself to allow anxiety to live side by side with you.
I am confident that with every solo flight you take, anxiety will have less and less of a grip on you.. Eventually Dr. you will notice an improvement in all areas of flying, even with Multi crew flying.
I felt it was important not to PM the above message so that other pilots (those who would rather not admit they have this) to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Plastic PPRuNer
Many many professionals (far more than you think) with high immediate stress jobs go through serious episodes of anxiety and self-doubt in their work. I know I have and it isn't pleasant.
With sympathetic friends and proper help almost all emerge from the tunnel better than before, so take heart!
Turning to drink or drugs or women for relief is a sadly common error and is responsible for most of the folk who don't make it.
You'll be OK - just be a little forgiving of yourself for a while.
All the best
Mac
With sympathetic friends and proper help almost all emerge from the tunnel better than before, so take heart!
Turning to drink or drugs or women for relief is a sadly common error and is responsible for most of the folk who don't make it.
You'll be OK - just be a little forgiving of yourself for a while.
All the best
Mac
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confidence and anxiety
A very interesting thread. In a strange but comforting way its a form a relief when you hear and read others go through the same thing/similar thing as you.
My 'anxiety time' came last year whilst hour building. I needed to be checked out before being let loose in a club aircraft. So on the checkout flight. Some rather dodgy and downright dangerous crosswind landings with the CFI in the RHS basically put paid to any solo flying. My confidence was shattered... Another flying session later with the CFI -all clear to fly... However the anxiety hadn't gone. So for the next 2 flying sessions, without the CFI knowing I'd booked and flew dual slots. The CFI got wind of what was going on and asked to have a chat in his office.
The meeting was chaired by him, with me and the last FI I flew with in attendance. We all spoke and to cut a long story short. The CFI expressed the anxiety thing is such a way that my confidence gradually re-emerged and I was able to fly again..
The talking to yourself whilst flying def. helps. Just a sentance or two does the trick.
Cheers.
Has.
My 'anxiety time' came last year whilst hour building. I needed to be checked out before being let loose in a club aircraft. So on the checkout flight. Some rather dodgy and downright dangerous crosswind landings with the CFI in the RHS basically put paid to any solo flying. My confidence was shattered... Another flying session later with the CFI -all clear to fly... However the anxiety hadn't gone. So for the next 2 flying sessions, without the CFI knowing I'd booked and flew dual slots. The CFI got wind of what was going on and asked to have a chat in his office.
The meeting was chaired by him, with me and the last FI I flew with in attendance. We all spoke and to cut a long story short. The CFI expressed the anxiety thing is such a way that my confidence gradually re-emerged and I was able to fly again..
The talking to yourself whilst flying def. helps. Just a sentance or two does the trick.
Cheers.
Has.
