Chicken pox question.
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Chicken pox question.
Hi all. Mate at work is going to spain soon but baby no'3 has chicken pox. Someone told him they won't let him on the plane with no'3 because of this. Anyone know if this is true or not?
Cheers...
Cheers...
hey mate
our no.1 had chicken pox and i asked our child doctor if they would let him on the plane. His reply was that if you dont tell anyone about it then no one has to know. He also said just keep him away from other kids or i will be having fights with other parents. Well the kid was about 8 days into the chicken pox and we went on 2 different airlines without a question being fired. That might be the best way to go.
To the reps of those airlines, please dont track me down. It will only happen this once
our no.1 had chicken pox and i asked our child doctor if they would let him on the plane. His reply was that if you dont tell anyone about it then no one has to know. He also said just keep him away from other kids or i will be having fights with other parents. Well the kid was about 8 days into the chicken pox and we went on 2 different airlines without a question being fired. That might be the best way to go.
To the reps of those airlines, please dont track me down. It will only happen this once
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He does not know the immune status of the other passengers so it would be irresponsible of him to take the child on the flight unless all the scabs have dried up and fallen off and no new ones have appeared. Chickenpox may seem an innocuous childhood disease but it can still kill especially if someone is having steroid therapy.
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As an person who had had the misfortune of catching chicken-pox at the age of 22, please make damn sure your little one is well and truely past the contageous stage.
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Jerricho I gave it to my mum when I started school and she had a nasty time with it too 
I meant to say that if any of you who are over 18 years of age should be unfortunate enough to contract chickenpox please would you give serious consideration to contacting your local branch of the National Blood Transfusion Service. They are usually very keen to get hold of blood from people with chickenpox. They can make ZIg (Zoster Immune Globulin) which can be given to people who really need instant, temporary protection against it. People such as those having chemotherapy, newborn babies whose mums have chickenpox etc. Please DO consider it.
I meant to say that if any of you who are over 18 years of age should be unfortunate enough to contract chickenpox please would you give serious consideration to contacting your local branch of the National Blood Transfusion Service. They are usually very keen to get hold of blood from people with chickenpox. They can make ZIg (Zoster Immune Globulin) which can be given to people who really need instant, temporary protection against it. People such as those having chemotherapy, newborn babies whose mums have chickenpox etc. Please DO consider it.
Last edited by DX Wombat; 20th Mar 2004 at 08:04.
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The vast majority of adults have had chickenpox and therefore would have no problem with being in contact with a kiddo having it.
The contagious stage for chickenpox does not start when the lesions develop, they are infectious before.
There is in my opinion no difference between the risk of being infected between travelling in a train, bus or aeroplane.
So let's not villify people with toddlers with chickenpox that want to/have to travel, and raise above tabloid levels of discussion.
Sure chickenpox in adults can be nasty condition, as is it potentially dangerous for people on long term high doses of steroids, other immunosuppressants and immunodeficiencies.
However one would hope that these groups of people have been given appropriate advice by their health care professionals about these matters.
FD
The contagious stage for chickenpox does not start when the lesions develop, they are infectious before.
There is in my opinion no difference between the risk of being infected between travelling in a train, bus or aeroplane.
So let's not villify people with toddlers with chickenpox that want to/have to travel, and raise above tabloid levels of discussion.
Sure chickenpox in adults can be nasty condition, as is it potentially dangerous for people on long term high doses of steroids, other immunosuppressants and immunodeficiencies.
However one would hope that these groups of people have been given appropriate advice by their health care professionals about these matters.
FD
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The pre-lesion stage cannot be legislated for, it is the DELIBERATE taking onto public transport of an infected person which is totally unacceptable.
and one would also hope that the infected person or parent of an infected child has received similar sensible advice. There is a duty of care to be considered here and I have a feeling that if an airline were knowingly to take an infected person on board they could leave themselves wide open to litigation and the infected person or his / her parent likewise. This is NOT villification, it is an attempt to get over the fact that chickenpox isn't some harmless childhood disease but a potential killer. Having seen the effects of chickenpox encephalitis and knowing of at least two deaths from chickenpox in people not thought to be particularly at risk, I would feel VERY unhappy about any person known to be infected travelling on public transport. Any sensible traveller will have taken out insurance which should cover them for a member of their party becoming ill resulting in the group being unable to travel.
Quite apart from the risks entailed, why would any caring parent wish to drag a poorly child onto a hot, sticky, crowded flight? Would you want to travel if you were feeling ill?
However one would hope that these groups of people have been given appropriate advice by their health care professionals about these matters.
Quite apart from the risks entailed, why would any caring parent wish to drag a poorly child onto a hot, sticky, crowded flight? Would you want to travel if you were feeling ill?
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So what do you suggest?
Lock 'm up or can they still go out on the bus and train but not an aeroplane?
No, I would not want to take my kids on holiday if they were unwell but I would like to take them back home if they fell ill whilst being abroad!
Of course chickenpox can be a nasty infection and potentially lethal in the wrong set of circumstances. But to translate that into 'irresponsible parent travels with kid with killer virus' seems to be a bit of unnecessary shroud waving to me.
The chances of coming to harm by chickenpox from travelling on an aeroplane with children having this illness are far greater from the intrinsic risks of the mode of transport than the chickenpox.
I think we need to see these things in a realistic perspective.
FD
Lock 'm up or can they still go out on the bus and train but not an aeroplane?
No, I would not want to take my kids on holiday if they were unwell but I would like to take them back home if they fell ill whilst being abroad!
Of course chickenpox can be a nasty infection and potentially lethal in the wrong set of circumstances. But to translate that into 'irresponsible parent travels with kid with killer virus' seems to be a bit of unnecessary shroud waving to me.
The chances of coming to harm by chickenpox from travelling on an aeroplane with children having this illness are far greater from the intrinsic risks of the mode of transport than the chickenpox.
I think we need to see these things in a realistic perspective.
FD
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Chicken Pox and Air Travel
I also would not wish to be exposed to the Chicken Pox, esp in this way. This is irresponsible and I sure would not take any child of mine to your child's Doctor, God Knows what he would also tell you that would be ok to do that would be a public health risk.
Do they offer immunizations to Varicella in the UK? I would certainly reccommend getting one for my child or anyone who has not had chickenpox.
And your child should not travel or be in public until his lesions have scabbed over at which time he is no longer contagious.
Copter Queen
Consider a new Child Doctor.
Do they offer immunizations to Varicella in the UK? I would certainly reccommend getting one for my child or anyone who has not had chickenpox.
And your child should not travel or be in public until his lesions have scabbed over at which time he is no longer contagious.
Copter Queen
Consider a new Child Doctor.
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Doctors who aren’t schooled in the particulars of aviation medicine don’t always look at the big picture. Often their patient, despite being unwell, is at no risk from an aircraft journey so the doctor will say it’s ok to fly. They forget about the effects they may have on those confined in the metal tube with them. If Flyhardmo’s doctor’s advice is as he described it above then this is disappointing, particularly as he even warned him to avoid “other kids’ parents”, so presumably he is aware that there is a real risk of infecting others in the aircraft.
Most countries have regulations that forbid airlines from carrying anyone with an infectious disease. DXWombat’s comments are valid. Pregnant women particularly should avoid contact with chicken pox as research has shown that one in five exposed to the disease show significant morbidity afterwards, including pneumonia, premature labour and, most significantly, serious effects on the foetus (which I won’t list here but they come under the heading of congenital varicella syndrome – all pretty unpleasant). Bear in mind a significant number of the cabin crew are women of potentially child-bearing age who may have become pregnant, deliberately or otherwise, but will not be aware of it perhaps for some weeks.
In response to Flyin’ Dutch’s comments it should be pointed out that there is a significant difference to being exposed to any infectious disease on an aircraft compared with the places he referred to on the ground. Whilst the risk of infection on an aircraft has not been proven to be any greater than a crowded place on the ground, you must remember that on an aircraft you do not have the choice of moving away to reduce your risk. You can get off a bus, walk out of a building or cross the road at the sight of a spotty child. You can’t on an aircraft, hence the airlines and regulatory authorities impose higher safety standards for the benefit of all occupants.
I hope this puts a more “realistic perspective” on the subject.
Most countries have regulations that forbid airlines from carrying anyone with an infectious disease. DXWombat’s comments are valid. Pregnant women particularly should avoid contact with chicken pox as research has shown that one in five exposed to the disease show significant morbidity afterwards, including pneumonia, premature labour and, most significantly, serious effects on the foetus (which I won’t list here but they come under the heading of congenital varicella syndrome – all pretty unpleasant). Bear in mind a significant number of the cabin crew are women of potentially child-bearing age who may have become pregnant, deliberately or otherwise, but will not be aware of it perhaps for some weeks.
In response to Flyin’ Dutch’s comments it should be pointed out that there is a significant difference to being exposed to any infectious disease on an aircraft compared with the places he referred to on the ground. Whilst the risk of infection on an aircraft has not been proven to be any greater than a crowded place on the ground, you must remember that on an aircraft you do not have the choice of moving away to reduce your risk. You can get off a bus, walk out of a building or cross the road at the sight of a spotty child. You can’t on an aircraft, hence the airlines and regulatory authorities impose higher safety standards for the benefit of all occupants.
I hope this puts a more “realistic perspective” on the subject.
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SRB,
Thank you for your comprehesive post but your:
says it all.
If you look at this from a public health perspective it would certainly make a lot more sense if people with coughs/colds and the flu were stopped from travelling than a child with chickenpox.
You are obviously well versed in aviation medicine so I challenge you to find one case of a patient coming to harm from travelling by air in the same chariot as a kid with chickenpox.
The vast majority of cases of varicella infections are due to close social contacts (as in family settings) not by sitting next to them in the bus.
FD
Thank you for your comprehesive post but your:
the risk of infection on an aircraft has not been proven to be any greater than a crowded place on the ground
If you look at this from a public health perspective it would certainly make a lot more sense if people with coughs/colds and the flu were stopped from travelling than a child with chickenpox.
You are obviously well versed in aviation medicine so I challenge you to find one case of a patient coming to harm from travelling by air in the same chariot as a kid with chickenpox.
The vast majority of cases of varicella infections are due to close social contacts (as in family settings) not by sitting next to them in the bus.
FD
Psychophysiological entity
I get into one of my rare serious moods when I hear of people that think that it is their right to infect other people for one reason or another. "Oh, I don't give in to little things like the flue..." No, the cretins soldier on, no doubt at low efficiency, and spread it to a dozen colleagues...great achievement.
As mentioned, trapped in a hot metal tube for hours, is a place not to be, if you want to stay free from infection. My wife an I have enjoyed above average good health all the years I was flying, but now that we are traveling as passengers, we seem to be picking something up almost every flight. We are lucky, as we are spending months rather than precious days at our destination, but for those who have saved for their holiday, only to have it ruined by (usually lung) infections, it is a miserable experience.
Sadly not too may people can afford the new insurance rates now that the underwriters have reassessed their risk...and anyway, their employers would not give them a second crack at their holiday anyway. So from both viewpoints, it is a difficult situation.
As far as taking childhood diseases lightly, I had measles when I was 19, and was very, very lucky to have a phone in my car to summon help, given that it was 1959. I was seriously ill for two weeks - plus a couple more to get back to work. Please don't trivialise these infections.
As mentioned, trapped in a hot metal tube for hours, is a place not to be, if you want to stay free from infection. My wife an I have enjoyed above average good health all the years I was flying, but now that we are traveling as passengers, we seem to be picking something up almost every flight. We are lucky, as we are spending months rather than precious days at our destination, but for those who have saved for their holiday, only to have it ruined by (usually lung) infections, it is a miserable experience.
Sadly not too may people can afford the new insurance rates now that the underwriters have reassessed their risk...and anyway, their employers would not give them a second crack at their holiday anyway. So from both viewpoints, it is a difficult situation.
As far as taking childhood diseases lightly, I had measles when I was 19, and was very, very lucky to have a phone in my car to summon help, given that it was 1959. I was seriously ill for two weeks - plus a couple more to get back to work. Please don't trivialise these infections.
Totally agree with the opinion that people should keep their illnesses to themselves. Having had my third cold in as many weeks because of stupid parents sending their kids to playgroup with green noses. My daughter gets a bad cold and then I get it. This with my wife being 35 weeks pregnant. What am I supposed to do, stop my daughter who is fit, from doing a normal thing because of irresponsible parents. If more people refrained from spreading their germs in public, the less epidemics we would suffer. I feel very sorry for those stuck away (it happened to my sister), but bad luck. You should have travel insurance! Why potentially create the same problem for other people onboard, who may not be so lucky! Absolutely criminal!
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It is nice to see such a reasoned debate on these shores.
Reality is though that you can not protect yourself or your kids from getting these minor ailments unless you decide that you want to live in a cocoon, or you manage to become a dictator and decree that all with any sniffles should be locked up and the key thrown away.
Fact is that most people that go out and about have healthy lifestyles will be unlikely to suffer more than a bit of an annoying drip and some other minor inconveniences when they have an infection with one of the cold virusses.
If you think that it is reasonable to claim off your travel insurance if you have a bout of the snuffles then I sincerely hope that your travel insurance is with a different outfit than mine.
Can we further be assured that for the 3 weeks that you were obviously infectious you and your family stayed indoors and were fed by friendly neighbours through the letterbox, surely you would not want to be the culprit and infecting unsuspicious fellow humans when you were going about.
Nah, the only way I see this problem gets cured is by a healthy injection of some common sense!
FD
Reality is though that you can not protect yourself or your kids from getting these minor ailments unless you decide that you want to live in a cocoon, or you manage to become a dictator and decree that all with any sniffles should be locked up and the key thrown away.
Fact is that most people that go out and about have healthy lifestyles will be unlikely to suffer more than a bit of an annoying drip and some other minor inconveniences when they have an infection with one of the cold virusses.
If you think that it is reasonable to claim off your travel insurance if you have a bout of the snuffles then I sincerely hope that your travel insurance is with a different outfit than mine.
Can we further be assured that for the 3 weeks that you were obviously infectious you and your family stayed indoors and were fed by friendly neighbours through the letterbox, surely you would not want to be the culprit and infecting unsuspicious fellow humans when you were going about.
Nah, the only way I see this problem gets cured is by a healthy injection of some common sense!
FD
My comment re travel insurance was directed at chickenpox sufferers. For some people being subjected to it can be a real problem. To knowingly take it into an enclosed public place is not fair.
FYI I do not hideaway when I am ill, that would be impossible. In fact I made the big mistake of flying the other day when in hindsight I should not have done. I hope my crew will forgive me!
At my daughters playgroup, parents send ill children because they would not have a clue how to keep their little darlings entertained if they didn't. More switched on nurseries/creches now invoke a
"no green nose" rule.
FYI I do not hideaway when I am ill, that would be impossible. In fact I made the big mistake of flying the other day when in hindsight I should not have done. I hope my crew will forgive me!
At my daughters playgroup, parents send ill children because they would not have a clue how to keep their little darlings entertained if they didn't. More switched on nurseries/creches now invoke a
"no green nose" rule.
Last edited by Right Way Up; 21st Mar 2004 at 12:02.
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RWU,
Can you explain to me how you square:
with:
Or is it one rule for you and another for the rest?
Why does your daughter go to the nursery?
Any other reason than:
?
FD
Can you explain to me how you square:
FYI I do not hideaway when I am ill, that would be impossible.
If more people refrained from spreading their germs in public, the less epidemics we would suffer
Why does your daughter go to the nursery?
Any other reason than:
parents inability to look after their kids themselves
FD
Anybody with commonsense will balance their public appearances. i.e. would you suggest a chef work when he has a very bad cold and continously coughing and sneezing.
FYI My daughter goes to playgroup for the interaction she gets with other kids. If she is ill she does not go!
FYI My daughter goes to playgroup for the interaction she gets with other kids. If she is ill she does not go!
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As may transpire from my earlier postings I am all for the use of common sense, a commodity it seems in short supply.
The point I am getting at is that there are too many folks happy to condemn, villify, scandalise people, issues and behaviour which may well have very genuine reasons for its existence.
It is all too easy to judge other people's behaviour from the comfort of our own surroundings and get a little bit blind for other people's circumstances.
It is much easier to see other people's failings than having a good look at our own and with that I do not mean navel gazing.
FD
The point I am getting at is that there are too many folks happy to condemn, villify, scandalise people, issues and behaviour which may well have very genuine reasons for its existence.
It is all too easy to judge other people's behaviour from the comfort of our own surroundings and get a little bit blind for other people's circumstances.
It is much easier to see other people's failings than having a good look at our own and with that I do not mean navel gazing.
FD
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Flyin' Dutch
Coughs and colds, whilst unpleasant, do not lead to debilitating illnesses except in a few exceptional cases. Complications from exposure to chicken pox do. These include pneumonia, sometimes fatal or requiring ventilation, bacterial skin infections and encephalitis. Shingles can lead to paralysis and urinary retention which is more debilitating than any cough or cold. In pregnancy it can do all of the above with the attendant risk to the foetus. The congenital varicella syndrome I spared boring you with before consists of cortical atrophy of the cerebrum, cerebellar hypoplasia, microcephaly, convulsions, mental retardation, maldevelopment of the limbs and digits, and pigmented scarring. You can “Google” any of those if you’re interested but in brief they are serious brain complications.
Recent research has suggested that women infected in pregnancy should be admitted to infectious disease units for treatment. The statistics of 20% of women infected whilst pregnant developing complications is significantly high. Need I mention the mental suffering?
In response to your last comment regarding the higher risk from close social (family) contacts you are, of course, absolutely correct, but this should be no surprise from a purely statistical viewpoint. You spend more time in close contact with your family. (You are also statistically more likely to be murdered by someone known to you, but that doesn’t make us feel any easier when we find ourselves lost in certain areas of big cities).
Your arguments have some validity and I see where you’re coming from, but all I can counter with is that the experts must have decided that the risk to public health is greater from having chicken pox in an aircraft than your average coughs and colds.
I would ask anyone who is prepared to take the more selfish view, described by Flyhardmo (who, to be fair to him, was acting on medical "advice"), to imagine sitting in an aircraft next to their newly pregnant wife and then finding out mid-flight that there is a kid or adult with chicken pox a few rows away who wasn’t picked up and offloaded at check-in. Tell me, knowing the above, that you’re not going to be rather anxious parents-to-be for the remaining term of the pregnancy, not to say rather annoyed.
Coughs and colds, whilst unpleasant, do not lead to debilitating illnesses except in a few exceptional cases. Complications from exposure to chicken pox do. These include pneumonia, sometimes fatal or requiring ventilation, bacterial skin infections and encephalitis. Shingles can lead to paralysis and urinary retention which is more debilitating than any cough or cold. In pregnancy it can do all of the above with the attendant risk to the foetus. The congenital varicella syndrome I spared boring you with before consists of cortical atrophy of the cerebrum, cerebellar hypoplasia, microcephaly, convulsions, mental retardation, maldevelopment of the limbs and digits, and pigmented scarring. You can “Google” any of those if you’re interested but in brief they are serious brain complications.
Recent research has suggested that women infected in pregnancy should be admitted to infectious disease units for treatment. The statistics of 20% of women infected whilst pregnant developing complications is significantly high. Need I mention the mental suffering?
In response to your last comment regarding the higher risk from close social (family) contacts you are, of course, absolutely correct, but this should be no surprise from a purely statistical viewpoint. You spend more time in close contact with your family. (You are also statistically more likely to be murdered by someone known to you, but that doesn’t make us feel any easier when we find ourselves lost in certain areas of big cities).
Your arguments have some validity and I see where you’re coming from, but all I can counter with is that the experts must have decided that the risk to public health is greater from having chicken pox in an aircraft than your average coughs and colds.
I would ask anyone who is prepared to take the more selfish view, described by Flyhardmo (who, to be fair to him, was acting on medical "advice"), to imagine sitting in an aircraft next to their newly pregnant wife and then finding out mid-flight that there is a kid or adult with chicken pox a few rows away who wasn’t picked up and offloaded at check-in. Tell me, knowing the above, that you’re not going to be rather anxious parents-to-be for the remaining term of the pregnancy, not to say rather annoyed.
Wow i seem to have created a huge debate.
Let me clarify some points. SRB seems to think i was selfish in my approach to take an infected child onto an aircraft and yes the doctor said it was ok provided he didnt come into contact with other kids which is how the disease is transmitted. Also the kid was passed the first week and we as "responsible parents" sat him in between us the whole trip and thanks to the medicine he slept most of the way anyway so he didnt come in contact with anyone. He was visible to all of the airline reps at the check in and also to the hosties and captain prior to boarding the aircraft.
We also came into contact with alot of ppl during our holiday and no one has complained as yet, not even the preganat women.
Chicken pox as opposed to other dieases which might be transmitted once airborne is not as bad as some might think and it less likely to expose a whole lot of ppl stuck in a metal tube as say a common cold which someone with a cold might go to the toilet and by using the door handle has left their germs for someone else to grab. Maybe my advice to the first guy withe problem might have seemed irrisponsible but it doesnt take a doctor to figure out the responsibilities needed when travelling in this situation.
Fly hard guys
Let me clarify some points. SRB seems to think i was selfish in my approach to take an infected child onto an aircraft and yes the doctor said it was ok provided he didnt come into contact with other kids which is how the disease is transmitted. Also the kid was passed the first week and we as "responsible parents" sat him in between us the whole trip and thanks to the medicine he slept most of the way anyway so he didnt come in contact with anyone. He was visible to all of the airline reps at the check in and also to the hosties and captain prior to boarding the aircraft.
We also came into contact with alot of ppl during our holiday and no one has complained as yet, not even the preganat women.
Chicken pox as opposed to other dieases which might be transmitted once airborne is not as bad as some might think and it less likely to expose a whole lot of ppl stuck in a metal tube as say a common cold which someone with a cold might go to the toilet and by using the door handle has left their germs for someone else to grab. Maybe my advice to the first guy withe problem might have seemed irrisponsible but it doesnt take a doctor to figure out the responsibilities needed when travelling in this situation.
Fly hard guys