DVT in flight deck crew????
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: deco stop
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
DVT in flight deck crew????
This question is specific to CORPORATE.
We have often very cramped cockpits, unable to stretch legs out, not able to get out of seat and take long walk.
For example in the G2/3/4 series there is almost no space to stretch legs, and the flight times can be in the order of 6 hours.
Are there any chaps out there who have suffered a DVT, or do you have a friend who has suffered.!!!!
Have you even known you have a small DVT, the symptoms are just like a small cramp attack.
Are you now wearing support tights, just like the girls have done for a long time.
All comments and views welcome. Thank you.
We have often very cramped cockpits, unable to stretch legs out, not able to get out of seat and take long walk.
For example in the G2/3/4 series there is almost no space to stretch legs, and the flight times can be in the order of 6 hours.
Are there any chaps out there who have suffered a DVT, or do you have a friend who has suffered.!!!!
Have you even known you have a small DVT, the symptoms are just like a small cramp attack.
Are you now wearing support tights, just like the girls have done for a long time.
All comments and views welcome. Thank you.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mmmmm, and with the locked flight deck door policy now, and flight crew not able to 'walk the aisles' for security reasons,its no surprise.
Also , until all carriers have phase 2 doors, F/C may feel they are a 'bind' by disrupting the cabin service for coverage.
Also , until all carriers have phase 2 doors, F/C may feel they are a 'bind' by disrupting the cabin service for coverage.
Its windyout--have you considered performing "calf pump" exercises to encourage movement of the blood in the deep veins. Pretend you have a pencil between 1st and 2nd toe, and draw circles. (Operational duties allowing!). Simillar effect gained by policemen in old films bending at the knees after standing on guard duty for several hours-"evening all !"
QDM-in the absence of other risk factors, do the benefits of administering low dose aspirin outweigh the risk ? (The guidelines I've seen all look a bit "wishy washy")
QDM-in the absence of other risk factors, do the benefits of administering low dose aspirin outweigh the risk ? (The guidelines I've seen all look a bit "wishy washy")
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QDM-in the absence of other risk factors, do the benefits of administering low dose aspirin outweigh the risk ?
QDM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: deco stop
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
positive thinking
FD: this is exactly the direction I was thinking of. In corporate we are usually in smaller cockpits, (sorry flight decks)!!!! and often the toes are the only areas that can be exercised.
I try to get out of the seat every hour, and consume water, (or coffee at TOD), long nights.....
I even do the "evening all" as my post sitting greating!!!!
Most of the longer haul corporate crews are old fa£ts, (present company included).
So is the 75mg aspirin a valid dose of non prescription medication. This would be a good precaution, remember the damage to to stomach warning.
Is there any any evidence?????????????
Most corporate flight crew probably think the leg pains are from squash, tennis or dirty dancing.......
I try to get out of the seat every hour, and consume water, (or coffee at TOD), long nights.....
I even do the "evening all" as my post sitting greating!!!!
Most of the longer haul corporate crews are old fa£ts, (present company included).
So is the 75mg aspirin a valid dose of non prescription medication. This would be a good precaution, remember the damage to to stomach warning.
Is there any any evidence?????????????
Most corporate flight crew probably think the leg pains are from squash, tennis or dirty dancing.......
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IWO,
I was just in the process of emailing one of the PPRuNe moderators to ask if I could set up a small poll to find out what people's experiences are.
It will not be possible to make it scientifically watertight but is likely to give a reasonable indication of the incidence of this condition.
Hope to be able to post more in the near future.
Ciao,
FD
I was just in the process of emailing one of the PPRuNe moderators to ask if I could set up a small poll to find out what people's experiences are.
It will not be possible to make it scientifically watertight but is likely to give a reasonable indication of the incidence of this condition.
Hope to be able to post more in the near future.
Ciao,
FD
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Q,
But is there evidence that this is a problem in flightcrew?
I attended a seminar last week where this was specifically brought up. The speaker there stated categorically that this was something they never saw in military aircrew. Even on the long patrol flights of 24hrs+
Hence my question/comment.
If you have access to material which indicates something different, I would be very interested in seeing it.
FD
But is there evidence that this is a problem in flightcrew?
I attended a seminar last week where this was specifically brought up. The speaker there stated categorically that this was something they never saw in military aircrew. Even on the long patrol flights of 24hrs+
Hence my question/comment.
If you have access to material which indicates something different, I would be very interested in seeing it.
FD
Flying dutch, it sounds like your asking the million dollar question.
(or even multi-million dollar)
QDM, take your point, but I'm not sure if there is enough evidence (yet) to support the use of low dose aspirin.
If we give aspirin to 10,000 otherwise healthy pilots, albeit working in cramped conditions, are we going to cause more problems than prevent ?
Didn't I read somewhere that NSAID's (yes I know its slightly different), silently kill about 2000 people a year in the uk.
I'm not sure of the evidence ? In this case do we rely on clinical consensus , and if so, is this any better than guesswork ?
The reason I'm interested, is because I'm faced with the question frequently by my travelling patients. I tend to consult my travel clinic colleagues, but I'm not sure on what evidence they base their opinions.
(or even multi-million dollar)
QDM, take your point, but I'm not sure if there is enough evidence (yet) to support the use of low dose aspirin.
If we give aspirin to 10,000 otherwise healthy pilots, albeit working in cramped conditions, are we going to cause more problems than prevent ?
Didn't I read somewhere that NSAID's (yes I know its slightly different), silently kill about 2000 people a year in the uk.
I'm not sure of the evidence ? In this case do we rely on clinical consensus , and if so, is this any better than guesswork ?
The reason I'm interested, is because I'm faced with the question frequently by my travelling patients. I tend to consult my travel clinic colleagues, but I'm not sure on what evidence they base their opinions.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suspect that on 24 hour patrol flights they are up and about, walking around reasonably often. I don't have any specific evidence, but it does seem reasonable that someone in a cramped corporate jet seat for 6 hours or more, without the opportunity to walk around because the small cabin is full of punters, might be at increased risk of DVT. Personally, I would consider taking aspirin, low dose, but it's a personal thing.
As you know, FD, if everything we did in general practice was evidence-based, we wouldn't be doing very much!
QDM
As you know, FD, if everything we did in general practice was evidence-based, we wouldn't be doing very much!
QDM
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: deco stop
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AME/CHIRP
The current information base is all second hand (at best) information.
Are there any AME's who have information however obtained, that might after suitable sanitisation become public knowledge.
QDM3: yes sitting for 6 hours on noes little butt, with no room to swing a cat, is slightly different from a long patrol, or even a G suited jet jock. ( I assume).
FD any joy with the pole !!!!, this would perhaps provide a CHIRP type service.
IWO
Are there any AME's who have information however obtained, that might after suitable sanitisation become public knowledge.
QDM3: yes sitting for 6 hours on noes little butt, with no room to swing a cat, is slightly different from a long patrol, or even a G suited jet jock. ( I assume).
FD any joy with the pole !!!!, this would perhaps provide a CHIRP type service.
IWO
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IWO,
The question you raise in the second line of the first paragraph is answered already. Just awaiting designation.
However as I would like to find out more about this from here I asked if we could do a poll. If you knew me you would not want to get me to do anything with a pole!
FD
The question you raise in the second line of the first paragraph is answered already. Just awaiting designation.
However as I would like to find out more about this from here I asked if we could do a poll. If you knew me you would not want to get me to do anything with a pole!
FD
Moderator
I haven't seen any evidence that DVT is any more common in aircraft than in any other group of immobilised people. There doesn't seem to be anything special about the aviation environment as far as the formation of DVT is concerned.
Certainly a cramped cockpit does discourage movement, but one can still get up occasionally or have a move around in the seat.
Gingernut has a fair point on the use of aspirin (risk:benefit), but it might be reasonable in a fit person with no significant GIT history, and taken with food.
Long patrol flights in large aircraft shouldn't be a problem. As far as fast jets go, maybe the G suit offers a degree of protection, although it won't be inflated for the majority of the flight. Perhaps they should pull a bit every 30 min or so to avoid any pooling
Certainly a cramped cockpit does discourage movement, but one can still get up occasionally or have a move around in the seat.
Gingernut has a fair point on the use of aspirin (risk:benefit), but it might be reasonable in a fit person with no significant GIT history, and taken with food.
Long patrol flights in large aircraft shouldn't be a problem. As far as fast jets go, maybe the G suit offers a degree of protection, although it won't be inflated for the majority of the flight. Perhaps they should pull a bit every 30 min or so to avoid any pooling
Join Date: May 2001
Location: london,england
Age: 66
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst my normal workplace has a large enough galley area to allow for stretching exercises, I'll admit to wearing 'flight socks' now for all the long sectors (trans-atlantic)...they come in an anonymous black colour, and are not uncomfortable.
Asprin...I'm aware that it can and does cause problems with stomach linings. There is a 'smart' asprin called Clopidogrel that does the same job - only better. I think it's probably an AME issue drug?
Asprin...I'm aware that it can and does cause problems with stomach linings. There is a 'smart' asprin called Clopidogrel that does the same job - only better. I think it's probably an AME issue drug?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: He's on the limb to nowhere
Posts: 1,981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice and anecdotal
Was chatting with a Lovenex (low molecular weight heparin) rep the other day Stateside and asked him about DVT prophylaxis. He said there was more evidence that compression stockings worked better than LMWH or aspirin long haul.
Apparently they keep in on air force one, and give dubya a shot of it when he goes flying.
Apparently they keep in on air force one, and give dubya a shot of it when he goes flying.
Longtimelurker
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: killington Vt
Posts: 391
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a DVT 10 yrs ago and resumed flying after 6 mos.I wear the stockings take the asprin and exersise my legs a lot.Also carry a sports cord that I use on trips more than 3hrs. At the time I was flying short haul flts and had some other factor ie. knee injury so the Drs. never really figured out what the cause was.