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-   -   British Pubs - why so important? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/640179-british-pubs-why-so-important.html)

TURIN 1st May 2021 13:35

Holy Carp!!! I see what you mean, just looked at the menu.

By all accounts its a very successful pub but bl00dy hell who pays fifty odd quid for a sunday roast?

wowzz 1st May 2021 15:47


Originally Posted by TURIN (Post 11036959)
Holy Carp!!! I see what you mean, just looked at the menu.

By all accounts its a very successful pub but bl00dy hell who pays fifty odd quid for a sunday roast?

In the Marlow area I don't think he'll have any trouble finding customers prepared to pay his prices.

Ancient Observer 1st May 2021 16:56

We've eaten there 3 times over the years. Each time, the menu became less interesting for me, and more expensive for what I might like to try. Service is brilliant.
However, all in all, both the Waterside Inn and the Manoir are better value for money. None of them is a "Value" proposition.

Mr Mac 2nd May 2021 05:17

AO
I would agree with you, having eaten in all 3 establishments, with my personal favorite being the Manoir, though as you say "value" is perhaps the wrong word to describe these establishments, more an experience I think.
Cheers
Mr Mac

ATNotts 2nd May 2021 08:57


Originally Posted by Mr Mac (Post 11037244)
AO
I would agree with you, having eaten in all 3 establishments, with my personal favorite being the Manoir, though as you say "value" is perhaps the wrong word to describe these establishments, more an experience I think.
Cheers
Mr Mac

Mr Mac,
Yet again this is the "trap" of British corporatism in the hospitality sector. I just wonder how many people in a city outside London actually believe that when they go to Marco Pierre White's, Jamie's Italian, Carluccio's or any of the other restaurant chains that have a "celebrity chef" name over the door they will get food cooked by said chef, even whether said chef had ever set foot inside the establishment, or even owned the chain. It's about the "experience" and being able to put on Facebook that they have eaten at Jamie Oliver's restaurant.

Sure some celebrity chefs, such as Tom Kerridge and Sat Bains do, I believe just have one establishment, and cook in it. But the food you will get often isn't the star, it's the concept of having it cooked by the big name chef. Hence the ridiculous £50 Sunday lunch. I'd be well aggrieved if I ordered it and felt it was no better than I could cook myself (presentation would, of course, be another matter!!).

treadigraph 2nd May 2021 09:13

Just looking at Tom Kerridge's Hand and Flowers Sunday Roast menu... hmmm. Off to Tesco in a mo to buy a £3.50 chook and a cauliflower for dinner tomorrow. Will get some sprouts later from M&S (they are tastier) and together with the ingredients I've already got, there's three or four main meals, plus six servings of soup for under a tenner. I don't mind spending a bit on a meal but those prices are seriously pretentious. Even if I won the Euro Millions, I wouldn't go there on principle - and I am a greedy capitalist bastard! :p

One that really riles me is being charged a lot of money for a meal which barely troubles the plate - one really should be offered a small portion or a large portion depending on one's appetite. Many pubs/restaurants offer a children's menu which is entirely different to the mains - do children's portions of the main menu, plus fish fingers and chips for the little brats who won't eat proper food.

ShyTorque 2nd May 2021 10:20


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11037321)
Mr Mac,
Yet again this is the "trap" of British corporatism in the hospitality sector. I just wonder how many people in a city outside London actually believe that when they go to Marco Pierre White's, Jamie's Italian, Carluccio's or any of the other restaurant chains that have a "celebrity chef" name over the door they will get food cooked by said chef, even whether said chef had ever set foot inside the establishment, or even owned the chain. It's about the "experience" and being able to put on Facebook that they have eaten at Jamie Oliver's restaurant.

Sure some celebrity chefs, such as Tom Kerridge and Sat Bains do, I believe just have one establishment, and cook in it. But the food you will get often isn't the star, it's the concept of having it cooked by the big name chef. Hence the ridiculous £50 Sunday lunch. I'd be well aggrieved if I ordered it and felt it was no better than I could cook myself (presentation would, of course, be another matter!!).

Three years ago I was on a mini touring holiday in Cornwall and we stayed at St Merryn for a few nights. I realised that Rick Stein (whose TV programmes I love to watch) owned the pub/restaurant at the end of the village. I was greatly looking forward to eating there, especially as I love seafood. I ordered what was for me a rare treat, a crab salad. It took a long time to arrive and when it did - what a huge disappointment. A plate of green lettuce with a bit of crab on top. Nothing else, not even a dressing! It looked like the crab had escaped.

A few days later I tried again at a small country pub in the middle of nowhere. This time it was how I expected Stein's to be. So much variety and so much on the plate I couldn't eat it all, for about a third of the price, too. Lesson learned. :rolleyes:

Krystal n chips 2nd May 2021 17:03

" It's about the "experience" and being able to put on Facebook that they have eaten at Jamie Oliver's restaurant."

I have had that "experience ", which isn't quite how I would phrase it, once and never to be repeated. This was at his outlet in Birmingham, now closed I believe. The portions were minimal, understatement, and the venue bore a close resemblance to a hanger. However, what was noticeable, and " difficult to miss " was, that, any space that could be filled, was. With what you might ask ? Merchandising in every conceivable form featuring ? Correct !


ThorMos 2nd May 2021 17:20

I've had mixed experiences with Jamie Oliver's. I was invited to the Cambridge and just loved it. It was in an old building and the service and food was great. I did not have to pay so i can't comment on that.

Next Jamie's i went to was in London and that was no better than an italian fast food chain, like a pizza hut. it was dirty, the food was no good, just a disappointment. Afterwards i decided to go to Jamie Oliver's 15 and that was a lot, a lot, better...

SpringHeeledJack 2nd May 2021 18:58

Are these eateries within a pub setting, or are they restaurants ? There are plenty of gastropubs with great food, but for me they're neither one thing or the other, except with restaurant prices. There's an award winning one not 100m from my HQ, really nice all in all, but to just have a casual drink is either impossible due to bookings for food, or too noisy from the happy diners to really enjoy. Oh, and the prices.

FullWings 2nd May 2021 19:07

The whole Jamie Oliverís thing was a showcase of how celebrity branding can go terribly wrong. Iím sure if I went to Jamieís house and he cooked me dinner it would be fantastic, but his restaurant chain was execrable. Food was seriously average, staff were untrained and it wasnít cheap to make up for it. Your local Italian trat would have beaten it hands down in all departments; even Carluccios operated on a much higher level.

Iíve been to most of the places mentioned above, and frankly I thought the Manoir was better value than Jamieís as I actually enjoyed it. Steinís Seafood Restaurant is another I thought actually did what it said on the tin, despite the hype.

Weíve (hopefully) reached peak gastropub, in that although some of them are quite nice, they all seem to look the same and serve the same food these days. There need to be more independent one-offs as opposed to chains.

treadigraph 2nd May 2021 19:25

I remember going in to a pub in Newlyn for a quick pint and overhearing another patron complaining to her companion about "these wretched people just coming in for a drink"! I know that wasn't the landlady's view and I have been back several times for a meal - very nice too and not particularly expensive.

Craft beer pubs... now then. Irritating, particularly their menus where everything is priced as "15" or "9" or whatever. I see we have craft cider now...

And pubs who insist on their staff wearing t-shirts emblazoned "staff" or even worse "crew". Why not a small pub logo?

DON T 2nd May 2021 19:47

Pity a Pie and a Pint isn’t still allowed.

Private jet 2nd May 2021 22:55

99% of pubs these days seem to fall into one of three categories,
The "family pub" full of dreadful parents with their dreadful little brats.
The "local", a toxic mix of gossip mongers, some nefarious characters, "beer and bullshit" types & "life's casualties".
The "gastropub" , only interested in extracting as much revenue as possible serving overpriced "speciality" sausage and mash and nonsense craft beers etc.
All best avoided.

wowzz 2nd May 2021 23:21


Originally Posted by Private jet (Post 11037668)
99% of pubs these days seem to fall into one of three categories,
The "family pub" full of dreadful parents with their dreadful little brats.
The "local", a toxic mix of gossip mongers, some nefarious characters, "beer and bullshit" types & "life's casualties".
The "gastropub" , only interested in extracting as much revenue as possible serving overpriced "speciality" sausage and mash and nonsense craft beers etc.
All best avoided.

Fortunately round here we still have quite a few independent pubs run by couples/families, that offer good food (nothing fancy), local beers, and are happy to see you even if you just want a pint and a bag of crisps. I really think you have not actually travelled that much, if that is your impression of pubs.
We have one "gastro" pub near us, but nothing on the menu is over £20, which in this day and age is hardly exorbitant.

Private jet 2nd May 2021 23:40


Originally Posted by wowzz (Post 11037681)
Fortunately round here we still have quite a few independent pubs run by couples/families, that offer good food (nothing fancy), local beers, and are happy to see you even if you just want a pint and a bag of crisps. I really think you have not actually travelled that much, if that is your impression of pubs.
We have one "gastro" pub near us, but nothing on the menu is over £20, which in this day and age is hardly exorbitant.

So you mean a "local" then? Please reread my original post, if you like such places then good for you. I've travelled quite a bit, so you think wrong, and actually I find "British" pubs overseas far more pleasant places than pubs actually are in the UK. As for Lincolnshire, I'm very glad that you have some decent pubs, must compensate somewhat for the pure depression induced by the place in general.

TURIN 3rd May 2021 00:51


Originally Posted by Private jet (Post 11037668)
99% of pubs these days seem to fall into one of three categories,
The "family pub" full of dreadful parents with their dreadful little brats.
The "local", a toxic mix of gossip mongers, some nefarious characters, "beer and bullshit" types & "life's casualties".
The "gastropub" , only interested in extracting as much revenue as possible serving overpriced "speciality" sausage and mash and nonsense craft beers etc.
All best avoided.

You forgot the Microbrewery Taps. Loads of them popping up now. Serving seriously interesting porters, stouts, and IPAs run by passionate, independent Brewers. Love em. My local tap house also has regular cheese and beer nights, live music, quizzes etc.

wowzz 3rd May 2021 08:23


Originally Posted by Private jet (Post 11037685)
So you mean a "local" then? Please reread my original post, if you like such places then good for you. I've travelled quite a bit, so you think wrong, and actually I find "British" pubs overseas far more pleasant places than pubs actually are in the UK. As for Lincolnshire, I'm very glad that you have some decent pubs, must compensate somewhat for the pure depression induced by the place in general.

Not sure that I'd call places like Stamford depressing.

ATNotts 3rd May 2021 08:38


Originally Posted by wowzz (Post 11037810)
Not sure that I'd call places like Stamford depressing.

Certainly not! Similarly, but not in the same league the old centres of Grantham and Sleaford aren't exactly depressing, and then there is the gem that is Lincoln. My favourite though is Stamford.

UK hotels and Guest Houses tend to mostly fall into three ctegories:
  • Ghastly chain hotels paying minimum wages to their often disinterested staff and a local management that is driven by the corporate profit motive rather than by a desire to offer a decent level of service to the customer
  • Boutique hotels where you pay an extortionate price for frills that do little to really improve the stay and lighten your wallet considerably more than is necessary
  • Grotty B&Bs and pubs, some of which still appear to believe the customer is happy to tolerate shared facilities

They all share one thing in common; the requirement to deposit money with them, and often pay up front before you've so much as set foot into reception, let alone try out the bed or the shower. They also cost considerably more than continental hotels, largely of course because of the UK VAT rate on overnight accommodation which is one of the very highest in Europe outside of the Covid-19 special one off reduction.

Pre pandemic we used to spend a lot of time travelling across central Europe including Belgium, Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovenia and Italy staying in independent accommodation, and never are we asked for a credit card number, or a deposit. In many properties we have been trusted to pay the entire bill, including food, drinks and accommodation at the end of the stay, in cash (Germany!!!!!) or card.

It always mystifies why the UK demands payment up front for pretty well everything, are we Brits really that dishonest as a race?

Cornish Jack 3rd May 2021 09:31

are we Brits really that dishonest as a race?

In a word - YES !!

Mr Mac 3rd May 2021 14:26

ATNotts
The nearest pub to us is open with some external benches close to a cricket pitch out in the country. They are doing the table, service but have now started asking for money up front as some patrons have left without paying their respective bills according to my wife. I have to say here in Germany I get my Beer mat marked and pay at the end for my drinks. It always surprises me that it does not get abused, but the family owners say it is very rare, and usually associated with international football, when people come from out of town, and sadly from an island of the western coast of Europe, wonder where that could be .
Also further afield the Mandarin Oriental chain do a buffet on a Sunday in the Far East, that for example in KL works out about £20, onto which for an extra £20 you can add as much as alcohol as you want from a list of 4 wines (Australian ) and local beer and limited spirits, can you imagine that in say Hartlepool ?
Hotels are expensive in the UK, indeed I would say some of the most expensive in the world with some pretty average service. However they at least have improved from the early 80’s when I first started staying away for work, before going overseas for some years.
Cheers
Mr Mac

stevef 3rd May 2021 15:31

The Continental system of paying for drinks/meals wouldn't work here in the UK; that's for sure. It seems that honesty is no longer part of an upbringing for certain strains of our population...
I spent a bit of time in Munchen in the late '70s and it was a surprise to see the the street newspapers honesty box system, the previously-mentioned marked beer mats and the English Garden park with its large outdoor chess area and the pieces kept under the viewing benches. I'd give them less than a week in Britain before they were vandalised, set on fire or stolen. What the hell happened to our society? I don't remember that sort of thing being common here when I was growing up. Obviously it was never a Darling Buds of May existence at any time here but it's certainly a more decayed culture, especially when alcohol-fuelled. A read through a typical daily newspaper is enough evidence of that.

treadigraph 3rd May 2021 16:23

I recall arriving for a pint and some dinner at a pub a couple of decades back with a mate. We were doing all the Harveys pubs, mostly by train/bus but this was one that needed a car so he drove and I bought the drinks. "Will ye be eating?" enquired mein host. Indeed we will and he declined my cash and opened a tab. We ate, I had another pint, we used the facilities and left... It was at the car one of us said "did we pay?". Whoops! I walked back in to find the landlord coming out with his shot gun. No, I made that bit up... Profuse apologies but at that time I rarely if ever opted for a tab when in a pub, much preferring to pay at the bar. Nowadays if I go for a pub meal, it's more relaxed and with more drinks (and cheese and biscuits!) so a tab and settle at the end is fine.

I recall a friend's retirement do at a big pub near Victoria - he had a tab running which he paid at the end of the afternoon session for the early birds and us long stay pissheads, then opened a new one for the evening rush of old colleagues. When eventually it came time to pay there were a hell of a lot of shots on the bill which were nothing to do with us - pints, wine, the odd whiskey, yes but no shots. Big row with the landlord who was adamant it wasn't padded - we believed him but somebody behind the bar had been serving drinks to some youngsters further down the bar - I remember them - and adding them to Bob's tab. I think they split the difference eventually.

SpringHeeledJack 3rd May 2021 21:47


The Continental system of paying for drinks/meals wouldn't work here in the UK; that's for sure. It seems that honesty is no longer part of an upbringing for certain strains of our population...
I spent a bit of time in Munchen in the late '70s and it was a surprise to see the the street newspapers honesty box system, the previously-mentioned marked beer mats and the English Garden park with its large outdoor chess area and the pieces kept under the viewing benches. I'd give them less than a week in Britain before they were vandalised, set on fire or stolen. What the hell happened to our society? I don't remember that sort of thing being common here when I was growing up. Obviously it was never a Darling Buds of May existence at any time here but it's certainly a more decayed culture, especially when alcohol-fuelled. A read through a typical daily newspaper is enough evidence of that.
It's all down to culture, the UK's 'then' culture dissipated in the mists of the 70's as the wartime generation handed the social baton onto the next generation, and of course other inputs that changed society's behaviour. The trust system just wouldn't work anymore, or for that matter since many years, especially in alcoholically fuelled situations! I think that in many European countries the old ways are still intact, the values handed down by parent to child are still in place and valued on a national level. Self-integrity seems to ba at the forefront, they just wouldn't consider ripping others off by not paying for food and drink in a hostelry. (There are people that WILL do that, but they tend to be criminals) I love that easy-going trust system and it makes going out a pleasure.

TURIN 3rd May 2021 22:11


Originally Posted by stevef (Post 11038039)
The Continental system of paying for drinks/meals wouldn't work here in the UK; that's for sure. It seems that honesty is no longer part of an upbringing for certain strains of our population...
I spent a bit of time in Munchen in the late '70s and it was a surprise to see the the street newspapers honesty box system, the previously-mentioned marked beer mats and the English Garden park with its large outdoor chess area and the pieces kept under the viewing benches. I'd give them less than a week in Britain before they were vandalised, set on fire or stolen. What the hell happened to our society? I don't remember that sort of thing being common here when I was growing up. Obviously it was never a Darling Buds of May existence at any time here but it's certainly a more decayed culture, especially when alcohol-fuelled. A read through a typical daily newspaper is enough evidence of that.

Again, it depends where you live. The trust system is alive and well in all the local pubs here. It's a rural setting between several large towns, but it still works.
Many a time I have left without paying only to remember the following day (on one occasion a week later). No harm done.

Loose rivets 3rd May 2021 23:02

When wondering what to do with myself in Texas, I was thinking over a plan of a nice restaurant where all the booking and menus etc., were done on line. Computing was still fairly new and it was going to take some promoting.

The thing I hate most about eating out is the fiasco of paying. Flippin' 'ek, I've just had a nice meal, why would I want it f ruined by fluffing about with paying? Just get up, thank the staff, and get in your car - which is outside the front door perhaps. Any issues are discussed in the future.

Pay upon ordering at first, and later, when a relationship is built up, pay on-line later. NO @$^@$# TIPPING.

The idea was to start a craze for this kind of place and then sell the franchise which was to be based in part on a very high standard of hygiene.

tdracer 3rd May 2021 23:24

First time I went to the UK as an adult (late 1980's), it was actually recommended to me to eat dinner at a local pub. Pub food was generally considered to better than the standard restaurants - and you could have a pint or two of pretty good beer with your dinner. Some of the pubs were quite unique, and the food was generally pretty good (although I did get a couple sub-par meals). Back then, a pint usually about a pound :ok:. I still recall one place that had a special beer called "Hell's Highway" - as a salute to the men who fought in Operation Market Garden.

My most recent trip to the UK - about ten years ago - in and around London the pubs were sadly uniform (several I stopped at had the same exact food menu and beer selection - I presume all belonged to the same chain). Food was OK but not what I'd remembered, and the selection of beer limited.
So sad...

ExSp33db1rd 3rd May 2021 23:38


NO @$^@$# TIPPING.
When we first came to New Zealand, some 25 years ago, it was strictly No Tipping everywhere, my American wife couldn't believe it, but soon gratefully caught on ! Then we held the America's Cup sailing thing, and had lots of Americans visit the Country, who automatically tipped everything and everybody. Thanks. Till receipts now add a "Tip" column, but I have no qualms about ignoring it, tho' occasionally, if we've had some particularly extra personal attention, I may oblige.

A million years ago in New York, one of our airline stewards took a taxi, ( rich barsteward ! ) and the final fare was 90c. ( when the flag fall was 25C ) He gave the driver a dollar bill and told him to keep the change. As he walked away the driver threw 10c out of the window and said - "Keep it, cheap ass, you obviously need it more then me ".

pr00ne 4th May 2021 00:54

tdracer,

"...In and around London the pubs were sadly uniform...."


What?

London pubs uniform? You must have been dreadfully unlucky with your choice. London has the most wonderful diverse selection of pubs imaginable, and there are THOUSANDS of 'em!


tdracer 4th May 2021 01:35


Originally Posted by pr00ne (Post 11038296)
What?

London pubs uniform? You must have been dreadfully unlucky with your choice. London has the most wonderful diverse selection of pubs imaginable, and there are THOUSANDS of 'em!

Perhaps, but more than once I sat down in a pub and asked for a menu - and got the same menu that I'd been presented day or two previously in a pub many blocks away. Not just the same items on the menu, the same menu - same items, same prices, same layout on the page - the same menu, just a different pub name at the top.

treadigraph 4th May 2021 05:52

Tdracer, definitely plenty of "pubco" pubs around London that will do exactly that, Wetherspoons, Vintage Inns, etc, etc, plus Youngs, Fullers and Greene King pubs tend to be rather samey though I don't know if menus are identical.

Also the trendy "Craft" pubs all seem rather similar, with a row of spouts for the beer (lager?) embedded in the wall behind the bar and menus offering apparently identical food - why do burgers always have to come in a glazed bun now (in almost every pub), can't stand them...

Definitely still some gems around in London though - eg The Southampton Arms whose lunchtime pork baps (get there early though) and range of ales and ciders are superb...

ATNotts 4th May 2021 07:48

It looks as though low pay and unsociable hours are coming home to roost in the hospitality industry:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56919575

As someone who has a soon to be relative working in the pub industry who is expected to worked long hours for little more than the minimum wage, it is hardly surprising to me that bar and restaurant staff furloughed on and off over the last 12 months have discovered it's perfectly easy to get minimum wage sector jobs with the major supermarket chains, driving delivery vans with online grocery orders which don't have you working stupid hours, dealing with drunks at weddings and clearing up puke after boozers have overindulged.

Perhaps, if something good comes out of the pandemic it might be some recognition in the UK that hospitality is a profession, not "a job" with the associated training and improved pay and conditions that go with it. This is normal in many European countries, but, certainly judging from the service you often get in UK pubs and restaurants, especially "PubCo" ones doesn't happen here.

SpringHeeledJack 4th May 2021 11:45


Perhaps, if something good comes out of the pandemic it might be some recognition in the UK that hospitality is a profession, not "a job" with the associated training and improved pay and conditions that go with it. This is normal in many European countries, but, certainly judging from the service you often get in UK pubs and restaurants, especially "PubCo" ones doesn't happen here.
That's a definite thing in the UK compared to say, Europe where it is a studied and respected career and appreciated. I have found, that despite my personal rule if treating bar, waiting staff with courtesy and respect, I have often experiences attitudes ranging from disinterest (You're pretending to pay me, stherefore I'll pretend to work), through to the "I'm too good for this job and I'm doing you a favour". I've even had a good few over the years pointedly tell me their story (in short form) and make it clear that serving is beneath them, but this will have to do for the moment, when all I wanted was to order and receive my food and drink. In this way, the European staff are head and shoulders above and it really shows in the UK in the last 15 years as so many came to live and work here. After the last year or more of lockdowns and interrupted life, I think that a lot have returned to their own countries. Brexit also played a part ,no doubt.

Saintsman 4th May 2021 16:47

Shortage of staff will undoubtedly lead to higher wages, which leads to higher prices and loss of custom.

A vicious circle.

Fliegenmong 5th May 2021 11:41

Higher wages can just lead to reduced profit margins.....depends on the greed really....

In Mid Early 1980s I first visited the UK, and a relative with whom I stayed lived in Tunbridge Wells & took me to the 'Brown Trout' for my first meal on UK soil....a 'Ploughmans' lunch ....and a delightful thing it was too! Lovely part of the Country, lovely Beer Garden etc etc.

Today, I had some bread & cheese, no Pork Pie, they are rarely seen here...Branston pickle, some simple salad & Ham, and a Large bottle of Pale Ale.

Whilst perusing the opinion pages of the local papers online, enjoying my 'Ploughmans' & Beer, it occurred to me to look up pubs I remember visiting (even working for!) in the way distant past.....

Not a single 'Ploughmans' to be found on a menu....they may exist, but not in places I remember visiting....Cajun chicken wings...in a pub in Hertfordshire???....Everything is burgers/ wraps etc.....no seemingly traditional pub fare. Hell I can go to my local pub here in South East Queensland, and whilst not decorated in a classical English pub sense, I can still get 'Bangers & Mash with veggies" for $10 (5 quid).....

As for 50 pound Sunday Roast Mr Kerridge can get his hand off of it!




ATNotts 5th May 2021 11:56

Traditional pub "fair" used to be cooked on the premises, but now get delivered in a van painted up "3663" or "Brake Bros" or some other mass catering business and trained "chef" has to chuck it in the microwave and fry a few chips to go on the side. The publicans have by and large no say in what goes on their menus, they are pre-printed and despatched to every outlet (I hesitate to call them pubs, or restaurants) and the wherewithal to put food delivered in by catering truck.

The exception to that is "carveries" where the kitchen team had the onerous task of roasting some large joints of meat, usually beef, port and turkey to a point where they are overdone, then place them under hot lights to finish of the cremation process in the restaurant. They also have to cook (?) vegetables, but invariably they turn out either virtually uncooked, of having gone down so far it's difficult to determine exactly what you're serving yourself with.

It is very sad that firstly, unless you go to a decent independent family owned establishment, you are likely to eat better food, properly cooked at home than going to a Toby, Harvester or Gawd forbid 'Spoons and watching the total lack of basic life skills of using a knife and fork you feel more like you're in a primary school dining room than a "restaurant" once you've got your pretty average plate of food. Worst, you've paid for it before you have even tasted it in many cases.

That about sums up the dire state of pub restaurants for the masses these days in UK. You can get decent food, it just costs a little more. We no longer eat out unless we can be confident we're going somewhere where the kitchen team can serve food better or more interesting than we can cook at home, and there are staff actually interested in looking after the customer who is, after all, paying their (albeit meagre) wages. South Asian and Thai restaurants provide some of the better affordable offerings in UK these days, and they generall aren't, by any stretch of the imagination "pubs".

Fliegenmong 5th May 2021 12:20

What a terrible shame ATNotts.....the $ wins again then....

....But that said, there must be a market for the traditional Pub and it's attendant 'fare'? ... reading between the lines these 'Pubcos', are the chain operated establishments now? What a ghastly American methodology.

Here is a great place about 25 mins drive from here....

https://www.foxandhounds.net.au/

But we've only been once....too far in a taxi / uber ....and really expensive!

treadigraph 5th May 2021 12:41

I just perused the menus of a 15 or 20 Cornish pubs I've visited and, of those with standard menus, it certainly seems to be the case that the ploughmans is a seriously endangered species... I found one.

Blacksheep 5th May 2021 12:45

There's nothing mysterious about the decline of the pub. It's due to drink driving laws, lager louts and supermarket licensing.

Fliegenmong 5th May 2021 12:49


I just perused the menus of a 15 or 20 Cornish pubs I've visited and, of those with standard menus, it certainly seems to be the case that the ploughmans is a seriously endangered species... I found one.
Just something that seemed intrinsically tied to a pub lunch in Southern England in Summer....maybe that is just my experience...


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