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wiggy 1st Sep 2019 08:09


Originally Posted by Imagegear (Post 10559086)
That's only because the USA and Canada have proper control over their borders and do not subscribe to this "Freedom of Movement" rubbish, mandated on the UK by the EU..

IG

So you are (perhaps) a Leaver who is in favour of the UK having hard border control in place at the NI/ROI border for traffic into the UK?

I only ask because many a Brexiter's declared tactic in the event of a no deal is to have no such Border on the UK side, which, GFA, aside, potentially allows for FoM northbound.

Sallyann1234 1st Sep 2019 08:16


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10558979)
You cannot make a perfect omelette without breaking a few eggs.

The UK will be a perfect omelette after Brexit?
A far better analogy would be scrambled eggs.

But you are right of course. The eggs have all been broken and there is no way to put them back together. We are committed now (in more than one sense of the word) and there is no point in further delay.
​​​​

Pontius Navigator 1st Sep 2019 08:19


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10559093)
Yes I did mean that. Around 85 percent of Dutch mussels come from Dutch waters. The rest comes from Ireland and Denmark. No issues there post Brexit

Ok, admittedly I don't understand.

Re Dutch mussels. British mussel growers in The Wash had their mussel lays raided by ducks. They sought permission from Natural England to cull duck numbers to stop the lays being eaten. Permission was refused so rather than allow mussels to grow to maturity they sell the lays to the Netherlands.

Mussel fishers also go out to the mud flats at high tide, drive their boats in tight circles to open up the flats. They settle as the tide recedes and then collect the shell fish.

The European demand is there. If British mussels became more expensive would EU consumers go without or pay more?

Fly Aiprt 1st Sep 2019 08:26


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10559088)
​​​​Will the EU suddenly avoid British fish?

As an aside, in Belgium was a hotel with its restaurant and a separate restaurant to one side. The motel to the North advertised Brittany mussels; the restaurant to the South advertised Baltic mussels. I found it improbable that the two sourced their mussels from different places. As likely they were Dutch mussels from British mussel lays.

Pontius, there is some confusion here.
Brittany is the western part of France ;-)

Fly Aiprt 1st Sep 2019 08:46


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10559107)
The European demand is there. If British mussels became more expensive would EU consumers go without or pay more?

France is the third largest mussel producer in Europe (64,000 t), behind Spain (260,000 t) and Denmark (80,000 t), 4th and 5th are Italy and the Netherlands (52,000 t).
According to your government, the UK is producing 26,000 t, that's half the production of Italy or the Netherlands, or 5% of the total tonnage of the above countries.

Edit : France imported ~ 40,000 t of mussels, mainly from the Netherlands, Ireland and Spain.
So the idea that Britain would be feeding Europe with its mussels might need some further consideration...

ATNotts 1st Sep 2019 09:39

Listening to Keir Starmer on Marr this morning, strategy for next week is, first secure legislation to prevent no deal Brexit put into law. 2nd., if Johnson tries to avert it going through by calling an election, he inferred Labour won't vote in favour. Were Labour to call a vote of no confidence he inferred that Corbyn will get first dibs on forming a unity government, if he fails other options may be offered up. A lot of inferring!

Question is, is Keir Starmer talking for the party, including Corbyn who still, for whatever reason believes he can win a General Election. Deluded or what?

wiggy 1st Sep 2019 11:48

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/m...loathe-england

ATNotts 1st Sep 2019 11:55


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10559215)

A very interesting, if long read. A damning indictment of Britain, it's system and it's way of life.

I'd love to be able to do what the author has done, except in my case I'd be leaving the country where I came of age. Sadly my finances, family situation, and of course Brexit, now precludes me from doing so.

Pontius Navigator 1st Sep 2019 12:03


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10559110)
Pontius, there is some confusion here.
Brittany is the western part of France ;-)

Would you have preferred that I described the mussels as French or German rather than how the Belgians marketed them?

I don't see the confusion.

And Fly, I refer you to my post about exporting mussel lays to Nederland.

I accept your point that UK mussel harvesting is a fraction of French harvesting. There could clearly be a supply shortfall, but equally it would be short term until EU supply is adjusted.

Steepclimb 1st Sep 2019 12:14

Very interesting and damming article. I tend to agree with the thrust of the argument. Britain needs to leave the EU not for the reasons Brexiteers have outlined either. Some time alone in the wilderness might concentrate the mind. It also confirms my view that the UK as an entity is finished.

I came across these videos. If you ever doubted that the voters were duped into voting leave then here is the evidence from the man himself in his own words, Dominic Cummins. Bear in mind he's back and in charge at No. 10 this time. Everything BJ says is scripted by that man. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to realise where the power now lies and that he is behind current events. BJ is his willing puppet.


And for your amusement the leave campaign videos


Once the consequences of no deal become apparent. These will make interesting viewing.

Bob Viking 1st Sep 2019 12:39

Steepclimb
 
Iím guessing you voted remain. Did the Remain campaign convince you to vote that way? Do you think the leave campaign could have convinced you otherwise?

So, my question to you is why do you wish to believe that those that voted Brexit needed convincing by the leave campaign?

My mind was made up long before either campaign started and I can honestly say I didnít watch any campaigning by either side.

Why do so many people wish to believe that supposed lies told by the leave campaign are the only reason we are leaving the EU?

The same accusation could be leveled at the Remain campaign but the reality is possibly that most people had made up their own minds either way and the campaigns actually had little impact.

BV

bpilatus 1st Sep 2019 12:43

Excellent points BV.

Of course the reality* is that remoaniacs are far too clever and media savvy to have been sucked-in by any form of advertising subliminal or otherwise, targetted or otherwise.

* in their own world

Fly Aiprt 1st Sep 2019 12:47


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10559223)
Would you have preferred that I described the mussels as French or German rather than how the Belgians marketed them?

I don't see the confusion.


Pontius, it is just surprising that the first though that came to your mind was the hotel fraudulously sold British mussels for Brittany or Baltic mussels.
Mussels from Brittany are mussels from Brittany, not from anyplace else in France (lots of other places). Mussels from the Baltic are from the Baltic, unless the hotel commit a very serious fraud, which would be detected by clients within hours.
What with "marketing" British wine for Burgundy or Bordeaux ? Who would you believe would fall for such trickery ?

Your mention of British origin when speaking of Brittany or Baltic mussels seems well, bizarre...
Not another trick from Perfidious Albion, I suppose^^?



Steepclimb 1st Sep 2019 12:53

Your mind may have been made up, Bob but you were not his target audience. It was the undecideds and disenfranchised. You would do well to watch that video in its entirety. He describes in detail how he and his team did it in his own words. He's quite frank about the famous bus promise which as we know is a complete lie.

If you don't find it disturbing that a very small group of unelected people essentially manipulated the voters into voting for something they didn't really understand. Then I'm sorry for you.

I don't think you voted for no deal. No one did. But that's what you're getting. Democracy?

Steepclimb 1st Sep 2019 13:01


Originally Posted by bpilatus (Post 10559237)
Excellent points BV.

Of course the reality* is that remoaniacs are far too clever and media savvy to have been sucked-in by any form of advertising subliminal or otherwise, targetted or otherwise.

* in their own world

As above, watch the videos. In fact the remainers weren't clever and media savvy. They blew it. He took advantage of that.

You may like the result but do you like the method?

​​​​​​I guess you do.

Bob Viking 1st Sep 2019 13:03

Steepclimb
 
Once again you presume you know what people voted for.

This whole deal or no deal stuff has been dreamt up by opponents of Brexit to try to scare people into changing their minds.

I voted to leave the EU. I accept whatever comes with it.

People who voted remain will probably never understand why people voted to leave. As long as you insist on trying to rationalise it through your own thought processes you almost certainly wonít get it.

I know why people voted to remain and I wonít criticise them for it. Why must those that voted remain insist on trying to change the minds of Brexiteers and continue trying to label them?

There is probably no point in me continuing to try to explain it. Your mind is made up. As is mine.

BV


Fly Aiprt 1st Sep 2019 13:13


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10559244)
I voted to leave the EU. I accept whatever comes with it.

And so you'll have to accept what comes with it : remainers and some whistleblowers trying to advise about the unforeseen outcome.




Fly Aiprt 1st Sep 2019 13:15


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10559219)
I'd love to be able to do what the author has done, except in my case I'd be leaving the country where I came of age. Sadly my finances, family situation, and of course Brexit, now precludes me from doing so.

Friendly Britons will always be most welcome on the Continent.
Provided you get a visa, that is...;-)


back to Boeing 1st Sep 2019 14:38


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10559244)
This whole deal or no deal stuff has been dreamt up by opponents of Brexit to try to scare people into changing their minds.

thats revisionism at its finest.

No deal is better than a bad deal. That was Theresa Mayís red lines. The first time No Deal took any real traction was significantly after the referendum.

All the major proponents of brexit, Johnson, Farage, Gove etc said a variation that it would be the easiest deal in history.

If you're truly honest with yourself the referendum was decided by the floating voters on the day after listening to the mouth pieces of either leave or remain.

To say there is any mandate for no deal is defrauding britainís Democracy however tenuous democracy is these days.

It is is rather ironic that the United Kingdom is being run by an unelected beurocrat from number 10 these days.

Imagegear 1st Sep 2019 14:49


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10559102)
So you are (perhaps) a Leaver who is in favour of the UK having hard border control in place at the NI/ROI border for traffic into the UK?

I only ask because many a Brexiter's declared tactic in the event of a no deal is to have no such Border on the UK side, which, GFA, aside, potentially allows for FoM northbound.


Perhaps not, :cool: Living in France, I voted remain, but I accepted the result without becoming a "remoaniac", rather someone who would like to see all EU borders more firmly controlled. (Including the ones between Italy, France, Belgium and Spain.) I am sure that you will agree that even if a "hard border" is established between Ireland and Northern Ireland, for immigration purposes, it will be as porous as the Dover/Calais/Zeebrugge/Boulogne fiasco.

While it is possible to move illegally between Canada and the US across the border, the likelihood of one being intercepted and asked for ID may well result in a swift repatriation without the option of ever returning. Contrast that with the EU's approach, something lacking?

IG


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