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ATNotts 24th Mar 2019 13:58


Originally Posted by Avionker (Post 10428020)


I do believe that at their party conference last year the members of the Labour Party voted in favour of supporting a second referendum. It is, supposedly, the party policy. It is just their leader has so far failed to act on that decision. Too comfortable on his fence perhaps....

Party policy; but not Corbyn policy!!

Anyone who saw Keir Starmer on Marr this morning will realise that Labour are hiding their gaping splits on Brexit behind the Tories even bigger ones!

Grayfly 24th Mar 2019 14:17


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10428138)
Seems obvious that if it ever does come to another referendum that you need to consider making voting compulsory.

One way to make every vote count if there is another referendum is to include those that don't bother to vote as a 'yes'. So in a binary question situation of 'yes' to stay in EU and 'no' to leave, then all those that don't bother to vote are taken as a 'yes' to stay. That way about 26m 'no' votes are needed to leave rather than the 17.4m we have now, which is about one third of the eligible voters.

Pontius Navigator 24th Mar 2019 14:23

Sallyann,
You've been called.

​​​​​​​

Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10427952)
We won't, of course.
Except in the imagination of Brexiteers who still believe they are in the Victorian era when Britain ruled the waves.

​​​​​​​

=NoelEvans;10427963]Which Brexiteers believe that?

Please be specific, as I am sure that you would not want the accusation of 'wild and inaccurate comments' to be pointed your way.

Sprogget 24th Mar 2019 14:30


Originally Posted by MFC_Fly (Post 10428408)
Strange how Para stopped posting just as Sprog started, a regular pattern going back through history (as I pointed out earlier) and now you have highlighted your suspicions Sprog has also stopped posting... :hmm:

Is that so? An obsession with PP isn't a good look. That's three threads now + a bit of self appointed Poirot. Looking back over your posts, you seem especially embittered to have been banned. Maybe look closer to home instead of stalking other people.

Harley Quinn 24th Mar 2019 14:34


Originally Posted by Sprogget (Post 10428431)
Is that so? An obsession with PP isn't a good look. That's three threads now + a bit of self appointed Poirot. Looking back over your posts, you seem especially embittered to have been banned. Maybe look closer to home instead of stalking other people.

Interesting point he/she has raised though. Did you forget the account password or something? Or maybe there's a more straightforward explanation, go on, we're listening.

Sprogget 24th Mar 2019 14:42

Sorry, no idea what you're babbling on about.

Bob Viking 24th Mar 2019 14:42

Grayfly
 
What an excellent idea. Maybe we should reverse it though so that everyone is assumed to want to leave unless they vote otherwise.

I mean ‘Leave’ are the defending champions. I view it like the Calcutta Cup in rugby. The defending champions must be defeated to relinquish the trophy.

Would that be fair?

BV

MFC_Fly 24th Mar 2019 14:48


Originally Posted by Hussar 54 (Post 10428317)
Thought the same myself - Parapunter is a particularly nasty piece of work

Yes, you are right, I do see a very, very similar nastiness and writing style in Sprogs posts too :ok:

MFC_Fly 24th Mar 2019 14:51


Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 10428438)
Interesting point he/she has raised though. Did you forget the account password or something? Or maybe there's a more straightforward explanation, go on, we're listening.

Maybe the Para account has been blocked and so he has to use the Sprog account for a while. It would be interesting to see the history of IP's linked to both log-ins ;)

Hussar 54 24th Mar 2019 15:10


Originally Posted by MFC_Fly (Post 10428451)
Maybe the Para account has been blocked and so he has to use the Sprog account for a while. It would be interesting to see the history of IP's linked to both log-ins ;)


Maybe Sprogget isn't Parapunter and Parapunter isn't Sprogget after all, because Sprogget didn't post at all between May 2013 and November 2018 whereas Parapunter gave up posting in November 2011 before resuming in October 2018 and it's just coincidence that when they both returned within days of each other after almost six years absence it was to post anti-Brexit sermons.

Very strange, but coincidences happen.

Pontius Navigator 24th Mar 2019 15:21


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10428444)
What an excellent idea. Maybe we should reverse it though so that everyone is assumed to want to leave unless they vote otherwise.


Would that be fair?

BV

Need a referendum first :)

The precedent would be the PR referendum.

How would it be policed? What penalty if you fail to vote? In NSW

If it appears you didn't vote at an election you were eligible for in New South Wales, we will send you a formal 'Failure to vote' notice in the post asking you toprovide a reason why you did not vote or pay penalty. Penalty payments are paid to the NSW Treasury and not retained by NSW Electoral Commission.t the time of the EU referendum one voter turned up for the previous poll that month, found it was for the locals and even refused to take a ballot slip.

The penalty is A$55 , say £25 in UK. If 15m chose not to vote that is BIG money. But down in the weeds there is the appeals process which might include 'I did vote' and the collection process which would include enforcement. A whole new department would need to be created.

Cheaper to give each voter a tenner with their voting slip.

Grayfly 24th Mar 2019 16:59


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10428444)
What an excellent idea. Maybe we should reverse it though so that everyone is assumed to want to leave unless they vote otherwise.

I mean ‘Leave’ are the defending champions. I view it like the Calcutta Cup in rugby. The defending champions must be defeated to relinquish the trophy.

Would that be fair?

BV

I am happy either way. I just don't like one third of the UK eligible voters being treated as prize winners,whatever the question.

Sallyann1234 24th Mar 2019 17:33


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10428428)
Sallyann,
You've been called.

​​​​​​​Well you could start with those who think Britain could still save Europe as it apparently did in the last three centuries.

pax britanica 24th Mar 2019 18:09

Leaving aside our faded and regularly exaggerated grandeur ( we will get the payback for those days when negotiating trade deals with China India etc ) it all comes down to one thing
THREE years-we a had had a referendum three years ago- no one had a much about the realities of leaving the EU and leaving aside all the rhetoric it is now THREE YEARS later, thats about the life of a parliament over the decades . So what if people voted to leave then- we dont have a general election and say- well we voted for say Cameron three years ago so he should still be PM, The Tory party voted for Theresa may and now want rid,

So why no second referendum , parliament cannot decide so ask the people again , democracy is all about being able to change your mind as David Davis said back in 2012.

So whats the problem, cannot do any harm can it? A pro leave vote would demonstrate the will of the people and a leave vote would reflect the population as it is now not as it was THREE years ago.

andytug 24th Mar 2019 18:12

That would be true democracy, have a vote now on the options now presented (deal, no deal, remain). If no deal still wins, then so be it. If leaving really is the best thing surely it will win again, no?

andytug 24th Mar 2019 18:15

And, no advertising by any side in the run up to the vote. One piece of paper per household delivered, setting out the facts for each, how much each will cost and what it means. No fear mongering, no mentioning the war, no racism and no gammon jokes.

Hyperdark 24th Mar 2019 18:20

Sure, have another vote, I tell you what have your people's vote, then get everyone to **** about for 3 years and have another one...I mean 3years after your peoples vote it will no longer represent the will of the people, so of course you need another one
etc etc

Honestly the reasoning given for having a second vote is about as imbecilic as anything I've heard, you remainers are all just wreckers pure and simple, you lost the vote and are too pig headed, arrogant and immature to accept it.


Hussar 54 24th Mar 2019 18:31


Originally Posted by Hyperdark (Post 10428586)
Sure, have another vote, I tell you what have your people's vote, then get everyone to **** about for 3 years and have another one...I mean 3years after your peoples vote it will no longer represent the will of the people, so of course you need another one
etc etc

Honestly the reasoning given for having a second vote is about as imbecilic as anything I've heard, you remainers are all just wreckers pure and simple, you lost the vote and are too pig headed, arrogant and immature to accept it.


I'm wondering why the same people now clammering for a second referendum haven't started bitching for a second General Election after the close run result in 2017.

Another General Election, Labour win, Brexit canceled.

Go on....I'm dying to hear why not.


Fitter2 24th Mar 2019 18:34


And, no advertising by any side in the run up to the vote. One piece of paper per household delivered, setting out the facts for each, how much each will cost and what it means
Ah, but whose 'facts'? Three years ago the government and treasury facts were of an instsnt financial crash, mass unemployment, etc. Every forcast since then has underestimated the growth in the UK economy (and overestimated the financial stability of our friends in the EU).

Exrigger 24th Mar 2019 18:45

Any second referendum has to have three answers to the question, as has been said before:
Accept a deal.
default exit under WTO rules.
Remain.

In my opinion, based on chatting with my circle of friends, colleagues and family, the option to exit under WTO rules will get more votes than accept a deal and together will attract more votes than the remain option, so that will not be the chosen version.

If they are still talking about only having two options, those being:
Accept a deal.
Remain.

Then I have no doubt remain would win, but that would not really be the correct way to set up another referendum, which is why if there is another one this will be the version that would be used.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/...when-to-do-it/

https://www.electoralcommission.org....ion-assessment




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