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wiggy 23rd Aug 2019 06:37

You may have a point ORAC, I'm not convinced...

The German speakers I know say Mrs Merkel's comments were perfectly clear but within minutes many UK media sources, including the BBC, were spinning the "30 day deadline" lie (for that is what it is).

You may be right that Johnson may now use the 30 day figure for other reasons, but he needs to called out on that - again, it is a lie, the EU haven't given him 30 days.

I think we know the UK press is, shall we say "iffy", and not objective in it's reporting, but it's low standards seem to have collapsed during the last three years - TBH if anything, anybody, remotely connected with the EU says in a statement is deliberately misconstrued by the UK Press and then a large section of the UK population swallows it unquestioningly, hook line and sinker, then I increasingly fear for the future of the UK, because the process won't stop with Brexit.

frampton 23rd Aug 2019 07:10


Originally Posted by Blossy (Post 10551940)
I suggest that this thread be called Ranting Remainers. They make the most noise here. I suspect most PPRune readers do not wish to get involved with the everlasting un-necessary fuss.

Blossy

When the "dust has settled" post 31st October 2019 the workers of Britain, and I include ALL workers whether they be British nationals or not, will do what they have been doing for many years now and that is face the challenges that arise, innovate and get on with the task of making a success of the opportunities that present themselves.

There will of course be small percentage of the working population who will be apathetic and who are quite happy to either "watch the world go by" or "hitch a lift" on the shirt tails of the more motivated.

There will be an even smaller percentage of "unproductive's" who will huff and puff on social media, trying to appear articulate whilst remaining relatively anonymous in an attempt to indulge their feelings of self-importance.

As the late "Bard of Avonmouth" once said "Don't listen to they moaners, who says we'me goin' to ruin" (sic)

Ther' thee bist then kid.

ORAC 23rd Aug 2019 07:26

Merkel has clarified what she meant. She did nit, indeed, give Boris 30 days with which to play - she has given him right to the European Summit and beyond....

POLITICO:Merkel: I didn’t mean 30 days as a fixed Brexit deadline

The 30 days were meant as an example to highlight the fact that we need to achieve it in a short time.’

BERLIN — When Angela Merkel said a no-deal Brexit could be averted within 30 days, she didn't actually mean 30 days.

The German chancellor told Boris Johnson on Wednesday she sees "possibilities" to solve the Irish backstop problem and avoid a no-deal Brexit but it is up to the U.K. to come up with a workable plan. "We can maybe find it in the next 30 days," the chancellor said, standing alongside Johnson in Berlin.

A day later and Merkel clarified what she meant. “I said that what one can achieve in three or two years can also be achieved in 30 days," she said during a visit to The Hague, according to Reuters.

“The 30 days were meant as an example to highlight the fact that we need to achieve it in a short time because Britain had said they want to leave the European Union on October 31,” Merkel said.



stevef 23rd Aug 2019 07:28

The real story about Boris Johnson's 'foot on the desk' outrage (for those that didn't look beyond screaming headlines).

Krystal n chips 23rd Aug 2019 07:31


Originally Posted by frampton (Post 10552221)
Blossy

When the "dust has settled" post 31st October 2019 the workers of Britain, and I include ALL workers whether they be British nationals or not, will do what they have been doing for many years now and that is face the challenges that arise, innovate and get on with the task of making a success of the opportunities that present themselves.

There will of course be small percentage of the working population who will be apathetic and who are quite happy to either "watch the world go by" or "hitch a lift" on the shirt tails of the more motivated.

There will be an even smaller percentage of "unproductive's" who will huff and puff on social media, trying to appear articulate whilst remaining relatively anonymous in an attempt to indulge their feelings of self-importance.

As the late "Bard of Avonmouth" once said "Don't listen to they moaners, who says we'me goin' to ruin" (sic)

Ther' thee bist then kid.

Oh man !....so all the concerns expressed by those directly affected across many sectors are just irrelevant are they ?......stoic British fortitude and stiff upper lips will prevail across the nation !........don't worry about the workers though, a recession will take care of them and any shortages in fuel, medicine, food etc can easily be negated by walking, dying and growing our own produce at home, albeit the pristine lawns may be damaged in the process.

The dust, as you put it, most certainly isn't going to magically settle after Oct 31st, the dust, in fact, is more than likely to develop into a full blown sandstorm across the UK
.


Pontius Navigator 23rd Aug 2019 07:56


I think we know the UK press is, shall we say "iffy", and not objective in it's reporting, but it's low standards seem to have collapsed during the last three years - TBH if anything, anybody, remotely connected with the EU says in a statement is deliberately misconstrued by the UK Press
One must remember all press have but two primary objectives. One is to sell papers and the other to conform with the views of the proprietor. If all papers gave accurate and unbiased news then what would be the point of having several papers, Pravda would satisfy all. I concede maybe two papers, one with long words and one with short.

In the current context Brexit is the current theme so bias must be the order of the day.

yellowtriumph 23rd Aug 2019 08:56


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10552205)
You may have a point ORAC, I'm not convinced...

The German speakers I know say Mrs Merkel's comments were perfectly clear but within minutes many UK media sources, including the BBC, were spinning the "30 day deadline" lie (for that is what it is).

You may be right that Johnson may now use the 30 day figure for other reasons, but he needs to called out on that - again, it is a lie, the EU haven't given him 30 days.

I think we know the UK press is, shall we say "iffy", and not objective in it's reporting, but it's low standards seem to have collapsed during the last three years - TBH if anything, anybody, remotely connected with the EU says in a statement is deliberately misconstrued by the UK Press and then a large section of the UK population swallows it unquestioningly, hook line and sinker, then I increasingly fear for the future of the UK, because the process won't stop with Brexit.

I did note in the Bloomberg article you referenced above that the BBC were described as being "relatively neutral" !

yellowtriumph 23rd Aug 2019 09:02


Originally Posted by SMT Member (Post 10552203)
UK media has always been a disgrace when it comes to reporting most issues, and overwhelming so when it comes to matters EU related. This is personified in the very person presently occupying No. 10, and it therefore cannot come as any surprise other EU leaders prefer keeping him at arms length. He's proven time and again to be a lying, unreliable, stuffed up windbag with little to no redeeming qualities.

As for the mental gymnastics displayed here, on the back of reporting by UK media, there's nothing really surprising. A large part of the UK electorate are still falling for the assumption the EU will bend over backwards to accommodate their silly ideas. And they're also, along with the government representing them, thinking it's the job of the EU to come up with a solution for their self-inflicted problems, rather than the other way around.

Well, what this latest round of meetings with M&M have shown, is that the EU is not about to create the solutions the UK is either incapable or unwilling to do themselves. Rather, they've given the UK 30 days to stop moaning and come up with a viable solution. No more 'we don't like this, that or the other but we can't articulate what it is we want'; it's time to sh1t or get off the pot. BoJo and cohorts have said there's a technical solution to the Irish border issue, and the EU have said 'fine, very well, show it to us then'. I fully expect the UK coming back saying 'we can't make it work, you make it work for us', the reply to which is bound to be something along the lines of 'sod off'.

My bold. The attitude I detect among people I personally know is we're leaving, and we are happy now to leave with no deal to get this over and done with. A small personal sample I have to admit, on what is your sample based?

Pontius Navigator 23rd Aug 2019 09:16

Agree with YT. Deal, no deal, indifference: the latter I think is now predominant as it will happen and the sooner the better

frampton 23rd Aug 2019 09:19


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 10552229)
Oh man !....so all the concerns expressed by those directly affected across many sectors are just irrelevant are they ?......stoic British fortitude and stiff upper lips will prevail across the nation !........don't worry about the workers though, a recession will take care of them and any shortages in fuel, medicine, food etc can easily be negated by walking, dying and growing our own produce at home, albeit the pristine lawns may be damaged in the process.

The dust, as you put it, most certainly isn't going to magically settle after Oct 31st, the dust, in fact, is more than likely to develop into a full blown sandstorm across the UK
.

Have I touched an "unproductive's" nerve?

Krystal n chips 23rd Aug 2019 09:56


Originally Posted by frampton (Post 10552300)
Have I touched an "unproductive's" nerve?

Nope, retired but still very productive in my own sweet way in society. Of course, how you may choose to define "unproductive " is a moot point as, by your apparent way of thinking there may be several million "unproductives " in the UK after we leave.......many as a result of being unemployed of course . Also, if the family genes stay true to form, anticipating about another 25 yrs on this planet ( subject to effigies and needles c/o JB chaps that is to hasten my demise ) hence I have a very vested interest as to how the current junta manage our departure and the ramifications that will follow.

About that photo.......if, as has been suggested, this was a "joke " then Boris, and his ego, have,, as they say, been well and truly had by Macron given the selective photo that has been published. Funny also, it should be given prominence in the Telegraph.


Fly Aiprt 23rd Aug 2019 10:38


Originally Posted by pineridge (Post 10551889)
Fly Aipt said...
"I believe they are gonna leave"


I don`t know what your natural language is, and I must say that you write very well, but your use of the word(?)" gonna" makes
you sound uneducated.
..

Dear pineridge,

Thank you for caring for my education ;-)
As you hinted English is not my native language, and mastering the subtle use of contractions is an unattainable goal for a foreigner, so I would plead for your leniency.
I would suggest that the utmost caution be exercised when correcting somebody's written language, as in some cultures this might hurt your interlocutor's feelings.
And after all, doesn't the Moon matter more than the finger ?


ShotOne 23rd Aug 2019 11:03

Well said, Fly Airpt. And a Bruce Lee fan too👍

Steepclimb 23rd Aug 2019 11:20

I still believe that the plan is for an early election before no deal day. An election after a no deal Brexit will be disastrous for the Torys as the cold reality of it becomes clear to everyone. It's very obvious

The key I think is to remove the DUP's grip on power with a Tory majority. The backstop can revert to NI only. This betrayal of the DUP will be popular with everyone except them and certain Torys. The DUP won't be surprised either. They expect betrayal and their loyalty to the crown was always about protecting their position as colonists, surrounded as it were by hostile natives.

Everyone would do well to remember it was the DUP who foisted the backstop onto the whole of the UK. Not the EU. An NI only backstop would be amenable to the EU and frankly everyone else

But would that get the rest of the withdrawal agreement through parliament? Well it might,. Perhaps the imminence of a no deal Brexit might swing it.

What pushes me into this line of thinking is the absolute failure of BJ to offer any solution at all. Other than to repeat endlessly that there is one. Of course with the DUP in place it's not one to mention.

I'd be very surprised if it hasn't been suggested in cabinet.

The alternative of course is that a no deal Brexit is planned and damm the consequences.
​​​​​​

NutLoose 23rd Aug 2019 11:22


Originally Posted by stevef (Post 10552228)
The real story about Boris Johnson's 'foot on the desk' outrage (for those that didn't look beyond screaming headlines).
https://twitter.com/RaynerSkyNews/st...63614243663872



If that qualifies as a desk in your home, you must be awfully short. :E

racedo 23rd Aug 2019 12:35


Originally Posted by bpilatus (Post 10551776)
Where to start with this misguided revisionist garbage?

Okay, so reparations are now paid to Greece? Odd it never made the news.

2 million integrated really? Cloud cuckoo land.

Thank you for reading
(Lunch was lovely, thanks for asking)

Strange that the Germans seeing it on a daily basis have a different view.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...0000-refugees/
https://thearabweekly.com/why-berlin...tion-good-idea

racedo 23rd Aug 2019 12:44


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10551996)
Merkel might not be as blatant as seeing Brexit as now both inevitable and required - but her actions speak as plainly.

EU doesn't care whether they stay or leave, preference is leave, with or without a deal.

Gemany hears the "Oh it will bankrupt you haha" and says nothing, just like when it integrated East Germany in the 1990's, it said nothing in now typical German fashion and got on with it. On this occasion it has 26 other partners.

Big bonus to Europe from December will be that little need to import Gas from Middle East as well. Nord Stream 2 will be available.

racedo 23rd Aug 2019 12:49


Originally Posted by Steepclimb (Post 10552379)
The alternative of course is that a no deal Brexit is planned and damm the consequences.
​​​​​​

Election weeks after delivering Brexit, his get out is he delivered it and a majority keeps him running UK for 5 years, a loss and he stands back and blames Govt as he wouldn't have done it that way.

Heads I win, Tails you lose thinking.

I fully expect conversations between Merkel and Macron are fully listened to by US/UK.

yellowtriumph 23rd Aug 2019 13:05


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10552440)
EU doesn't care whether they stay or leave, preference is leave, with or without a deal.

Gemany hears the "Oh it will bankrupt you haha" and says nothing, just like when it integrated East Germany in the 1990's, it said nothing in now typical German fashion and got on with it. On this occasion it has 26 other partners.

Big bonus to Europe from December will be that little need to import Gas from Middle East as well. Nord Stream 2 will be available.

My bold. Why does it keep offering extensions especially if, as you state, the EU preference is for the UK to leave with or without a deal? The agreement to extensions would seem to indicate the EU cares very much.

bpilatus 23rd Aug 2019 13:28


Originally Posted by yellowtriumph
The agreement to extensions would seem to indicate the EU cares very much.

One of many topics my eu lunch providers were chatting about yesterday was the need (their word not mine) for UK contributions to the eu benevolent fund to continue indefinitely.

It's only about our money it has always only ever been about our money. Money we should save and could spend on the NHS instead.

Once Leo has been chucked under the bus the grown ups can finish this properly. If only Eire, Luxembourg et al had implemented a sensible tax regime maybe things would have been better. More equitable. c'est la vie.

Thank you for reading


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