PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   BREXIT (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/619673-brexit.html)

747 jock 16th May 2022 16:28


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11230969)
Points of order. The Union Jack is flown on the jackstaff of a ship. Otherwise is should be the Union Flag and I think you will find it only comprises the flags of 3 of the nations of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

It's not as straightforward as that:

From the UK Parliament:
THE FLYING OF THE UNION JACK (Hansard, 14 July 1908) (parliament.uk)

I think it may fairly be stated, in reply to the noble Earl, that the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag, and it undoubtedly may be flown on land by all His Majesty's subjects.
..
..
My Lords' I am very pleased indeed to hear from His Majesty's Government the statement that the Union Jack may be flown on land by all British subjects.


Ninthace 16th May 2022 16:32


Originally Posted by 747 jock (Post 11231157)
It's not as straightforward as that:

From the UK Parliament:
THE FLYING OF THE UNION JACK (Hansard, 14 July 1908) (parliament.uk)

There are many former or current navy words that have become part of common parlance, referring to the Union Flag as the Union Jack is one,
https://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/uk-...he-union-flag/

El Grifo 16th May 2022 16:48


Sorry to disappoint El Gifo, but a RN ship has a flag pole at end of the pointy bit at the front. That is the Jackstaff from which the Union Jack is flown when a ship is in harbour, The White Ensign is flown from the pole on the end of the blunt bit at the back. It is not the called the British Ensign as such as there are in fact several Ensigns. The White for warships, the Blue (see Wiki for the multiple applications) and the Red for British registered Merchant vessels. You learn all this and more when you go through BRNC.
Wiki says different ninthace :-

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit...or%20civilian.

Sue Vêtements 16th May 2022 17:12

This argument is very ... vexing !

Krystal n chips 16th May 2022 17:22


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11231160)
There are many former or current navy words that have become part of common parlance, referring to the Union Flag as the Union Jack is one,
https://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/uk-...he-union-flag/

Well given the Navy have a long standing fetish for flags, in the same way as the Army do for horses and goats, this is no surprise. During my 2.5 weeks at Nelson, every day a new set of fair ground bunting would appear..very pretty really, fluttering in the breeze off the Solent.

Back to more serious matters.

This is the headline from Guardian "Live "...Boris at his usual bollocks and bluster / BS form...other reports from the parties present don't entirely agree with Boris's version of course, and, tomorrow, the vacuous Ms Truss will be adding her own version...which will doubtless be different again and in her own inimitable style...

Boris Johnson claims planned Northern Ireland protocol law is ‘insurance’ in case talks fail – live



Right20deg 16th May 2022 17:51


Originally Posted by Sue Vêtements (Post 11231170)
This argument is very ... vexing !

Indeed it is. If in doubt, display a black cylinder by day to show ......" constrained by draft ". No flag is required . As opposed to " constrained by draught", indicated by six cans of Carlsberg lying horizontally on a polished surface to keep KnC amused.

Ninthace 16th May 2022 18:55


Originally Posted by El Grifo (Post 11231163)

Don't believe everything Wiki tells you and anyway that flag goes on the back end of the ship. In all the time I spent saluting it going up and down nobody ever said we were hoisting the British Ensign.
http://www.axfordsabode.org.uk/bronto02.htm

El Grifo 16th May 2022 19:43


Don't believe everything Wiki tells you and anyway that flag goes on the back end of the ship. In all the time I spent saluting it going up and down nobody ever said we were hoisting the British Ensign.
Ah sorry ninthace, I was referring to the overwhelming numbers of private and merchant shipping that totally dwarves the Royal Navy, who incidentaly also fly the Ensign at the stern.
Here is a shot of a cheery bunch of merchantmen to ease you into the comfortable sense of acceptance :-)
You post some interesting stuff for sure, but you do not like your points to be contested !
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a4e3baf8fc.jpg

Ninthace 16th May 2022 21:00

No argument Grifo, the Red Ensign or Red Duster is is flown at the stern,but if you cast your mind back, the original statement of mine that you contested was about the flying of the Union Jack on RN vessels, which goes on the front of the ship, when in harbour


I think you might find ninthace, that the Flag or Jack flown from British ships, is in fact The British Ensign !
There is a difference between a Jack and an Ensign, They go at either end of the ship. You will find foreign navies also fly a national flag or Jack (doesn’t have to be the national flag, see USN) at the front on the Jackstaff , there is a clue in the name.

A lot of private vessels, as distinct from merchantmen, will fly various versions of a defaced Blue Ensign to indicate which yacht club they belong or that they are RNR.

Krystal n chips 17th May 2022 08:23

Now that the arcane and inane protocols concerning flags, fluttering version, not as laid on pavements, have been explained, not that they have any relevance to about 99.99% of the population anyway....back to N.I.

As predicted, who should grace our screens but, non other than, "wee Sammy "...so he did.

This interview didn't really go too well for Sammy given it was conducted by KG-M which put Sammy at a disadvantage from the start. He duly performed as expected by offering us his, invariably skewed, version of matters and a certain protocol...and Ms Truss will be gushing forth later in this respect...but credit where credit is due, Sammy's vocabulary has expanded somewhat albeit you got the impression his two favourite words " No Zurrendur !! " were only just below the surface.

But, it's that last question that's really telling....note his response and a swerve Barry John would be proud of !

NI Protocol ‘is poison in the system’, DUP MP says – Channel 4 News

ATNotts 17th May 2022 08:59


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 11231396)
Now that the arcane and inane protocols concerning flags, fluttering version, not as laid on pavements, have been explained, not that they have any relevance to about 99.99% of the population anyway....back to N.I.

As predicted, who should grace our screens but, non other than, "wee Sammy "...so he did.

This interview didn't really go too well for Sammy given it was conducted by KG-M which put Sammy at a disadvantage from the start. He duly performed as expected by offering us his, invariably skewed, version of matters and a certain protocol...and Ms Truss will be gushing forth later in this respect...but credit where credit is due, Sammy's vocabulary has expanded somewhat albeit you got the impression his two favourite words " No Zurrendur !! " were only just below the surface.

But, it's that last question that's really telling....note his response and a swerve Barry John would be proud of !

NI Protocol ‘is poison in the system’, DUP MP says – Channel 4 News

The reality of the DUP position isn't the NI Protocol, that is a smoke screen. If, and it's a very big if, the UK government resolves the Irish Sea border issue, then the DUP will simply find another excuse not to go back into government with Sinn Fein for one single reason - that they believe that being the First Minister is a right given to them by the Almighty; and if that really proved impossible then they might accept another, probably more extremist Unionist party getting the job. The "Papists" of all people should "NEVER, NEVER" (quote Ian Paisley) head the Northern Ireland government.

I hope that Johnson realises this, since if he doesn't then we will wind up with no functioning Northern Ireland Assembly, and a trade war with the EU to boot.

Krystal n chips 17th May 2022 09:46


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11231407)
The reality of the DUP position isn't the NI Protocol, that is a smoke screen. If, and it's a very big if, the UK government resolves the Irish Sea border issue, then the DUP will simply find another excuse not to go back into government with Sinn Fein for one single reason - that they believe that being the First Minister is a right given to them by the Almighty; and if that really proved impossible then they might accept another, probably more extremist Unionist party getting the job. The "Papists" of all people should "NEVER, NEVER" (quote Ian Paisley) head the Northern Ireland government.

I hope that Johnson realises this, since if he doesn't then we will wind up with no functioning Northern Ireland Assembly, and a trade war with the EU to boot.

He's probably hoping another helpful bung / bribe, like Treeza kindly did to swell their funds, will work again...might be a bit more this time of course.

Mr Mac 17th May 2022 12:02


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 11231425)
He's probably hoping another helpful bung / bribe, like Treeza kindly did to swell their funds, will work again...might be a bit more this time of course.

KnC I am sure the elected govt of the UK would not stoop to that surly. However with a more practical hat on I would say of course they will and will dress it up under some face saving. However the DUP and indeed NI is on borrowed time with the impetus moving towards a united Ireland in the not too distant future IMHO, and about time too.

Cheers
Mr Mac

Widger 17th May 2022 12:59

To get us back on topic, Nithace is absolutely correct about the Ensign Staff and Jack Staff and what is flown on them. Many other Navies around the world also have similar arrangements.

On El Grifos note about the numbers, may I remind the honourable gentleman/lady, that prior to the Second World War the UK merchant fleet was the largest in the world and still remains the 10th largest today, backed up but centuries of flag etiquette and tradition.

Of note there is also a less well know Civil Air Ensign, again adopted by many different countries. Civil air ensign - Wikipedia

Cornish Jack 17th May 2022 13:16

Widger - An occasional glance at the thread title is quite helpful to stay on topic.

Widger 17th May 2022 13:51

Wow......Thanks for that Cornish Jack.........I hadn't noticed that...........All the years I have spent reading and being part of this thread, I hadn't realised it was about the subject of Brexit. I thought the diversion into talking flags was a welcome change from the interminable and dreary, regurgitated conversation on this thread.

Not in anyway trivialising the very real issues regarding 'Norn Iron'

Krystal n chips 17th May 2022 16:53


Originally Posted by Mr Mac (Post 11231479)
KnC I am sure the elected govt of the UK would not stoop to that surly. However with a more practical hat on I would say of course they will and will dress it up under some face saving. However the DUP and indeed NI is on borrowed time with the impetus moving towards a united Ireland in the not too distant future IMHO, and about time too.

Cheers
Mr Mac


Mr Mac,
This current Gov't is bereft of any criteria you can think of that involves morals / responsibility / ethics / capability. ..so they will do anything they can to remain in power.

The DUP, as everybody is only too well aware, is long past it's sell by date however, they can still be useful to Boris. For the vacuous Ms Truss, she's almost got it right ...however, what she studiously avoids saying, is, had Boris actually applied himself to "getting Brexit done ! ", rather than the cosmetic gestures he made to ensure Boris remained "popular "...well to Boris's way of thinking, then this deterioration wouldn't have happened.

Taken from the Guardian report on the impending disregard for international law...

" The Northern Ireland protocol does not have the support necessary in one part of the community in Northern Ireland,” she said, referring to opposition from the Democratic Unionist party. "

I've long thought N.I is synonymous with that much cherished institution, and those who are so inclined to cherish should be in one, called the "Glorious / British Empire "...whose legacy, based on the actions of London centred Gov' t Dept's over the years, when partitioning / dividing nations once they kicked us out, has resulted in carnage around the globe thereafter.

Cornish Jack 18th May 2022 10:00

Widger - Don't mention it - only too happy to be of assistance !
To further assist, a simple way to provide your desired diversion into Vexillology, would be to use the 'New Thread' facility. :ok:

Ninthace 18th May 2022 11:00


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11231894)
Widger - Don't mention it - only too happy to be of assistance !
To further assist, a simple way to provide your desired diversion into Vexillology, would be to use the 'New Thread' facility. :ok:

CJ can I recommend

Even more fun than BREXIT

Sue Vêtements 18th May 2022 12:27


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11231894)
To further assist, a simple way to provide your desired diversion into Vexillology, would be to use the 'New Thread' facility. :ok:

Interesting ... that must be why someone earlier said "This argument is very ... vexing !" :hmm:


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:10.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.