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DaveReidUK 22nd Feb 2022 07:04


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 11187923)
Well they meant nothing to me. So maybe for the benefit of those of us who don't know the significance of those two numbers maybe put them into plain English. I'm keen to know the benefits. Oddly Brexiteeers seem happy to hide their lights under bushels.

Some edited highlights of the SIs in question:


for "Article 101 TFEU" substitute "section 2 of the Competition Act 1998";
for "Commission" substitute "Competition and Markets Authority";
for "Commission" substitute "Secretary of State";
for "Commission" substitute "appropriate authority";
for "Commission" substitute "relevant authority";
for "Member State in question", substitute "United Kingdom".
for "Member States" substitute "The Secretary of State";
for "Member States" substitute "The relevant authority".
for "Member States" substitute "United Kingdom";
for "Union" substitute "United Kingdom".
for "in third countries" substitute "outside the United Kingdom".
for "territory of the Union" substitute "United Kingdom";
for "the internal market" substitute "the market in the United Kingdom or a constituent nation";
etc, etc ...

SWBKCB 22nd Feb 2022 07:32

Apologies for the jargon - SI = Statutory Instrument = UK Law. SI 821 of 2019 basically takes an EU regulation and makes it a UK law by amending certain parts as indicated by DRUK above. So rather than having a single piece of legislation that says all these EU regulation applies in the UK, all those regulations become seperate pieces of UK law having gone through an amendment process as above..

ATNotts 22nd Feb 2022 07:51


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11187944)
Apologies for the jargon - SI = Statutory Instrument = UK Law. SI 821 of 2019 basically takes an EU regulation and makes it a UK law by amending certain parts as indicated by DRUK above. So rather than having a single piece of legislation that says all these EU regulation applies in the UK, all those regulations become seperate pieces of UK law having gone through an amendment process as above..

Which all equates to a monumental waste of civil service time, and government money. That about sums up what Brexit has meant so far!

As for the benefits or otherwise. from the standpoint of my life as an individual, since Brexit it has remained largely unaffected. No reduced taxes (on energy), no reduced clothing and food prices either, and since having Poles, Slovaks, Romanians et all in our midst never worried me, not having them hasn't changed my life either. On the negative side travel has become much more difficult, more border checks to get into EU, restrictions on what I can buy and bring back into UK, and of course I can no longer buy a "meal deal" at Tesco then take it through the channel tunnel to eat en-route to destination; my money purchase pension is underperforming since the FTSE has consistently lagged behind other European indexes since June 2016. Looking at the wider family, my mother, like many people, resides in a care home where, post Brexit, staff have been more difficult to come by since the exodus of Eastern Europeans, so the standard of care she gets has fallen whilst costs are rising at a staggering pace.

Looking further outwards, it is clear that fishermen and farmers are now finding business tougher (shellfish dredgers, sugar beet farmers to name but two sectors), smaller food producers - the artisan cheese makers such as those around Melton Mowbray making AOC Stilton for example find it increasingly difficult to sell their wares to European customers; selling to individual private customers by mail order is now essentially a non starter and import and export documentation is a whole new resurrected industry, again, for which the businesses carrying out the work (Mrs. ATN works for such a business) find it increasingly difficult to get staff.

Basically the whole project is going swimmingly well - for at least for the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg and his elitist cronies. Probably not for the majority of the rest of us.

Right20deg 22nd Feb 2022 08:30


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11187952)
Which all equates to a monumental waste of civil service time, and government money. That about sums up what Brexit has meant so far!

As for the benefits or otherwise. from the standpoint of my life as an individual, since Brexit it has remained largely unaffected. No reduced taxes (on energy), no reduced clothing and food prices either, and since having Poles, Slovaks, Romanians et all in our midst never worried me, not having them hasn't changed my life either. On the negative side travel has become much more difficult, more border checks to get into EU, restrictions on what I can buy and bring back into UK, and of course I can no longer buy a "meal deal" at Tesco then take it through the channel tunnel to eat en-route to destination; my money purchase pension is underperforming since the FTSE has consistently lagged behind other European indexes since June 2016. Looking at the wider family, my mother, like many people, resides in a care home where, post Brexit, staff have been more difficult to come by since the exodus of Eastern Europeans, so the standard of care she gets has fallen whilst costs are rising at a staggering pace.

Looking further outwards, it is clear that fishermen and farmers are now finding business tougher (shellfish dredgers, sugar beet farmers to name but two sectors), smaller food producers - the artisan cheese makers such as those around Melton Mowbray making AOC Stilton for example find it increasingly difficult to sell their wares to European customers; selling to individual private customers by mail order is now essentially a non starter and import and export documentation is a whole new resurrected industry, again, for which the businesses carrying out the work (Mrs. ATN works for such a business) find it increasingly difficult to get staff.

Basically the whole project is going swimmingly well - for at least for the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg and his elitist cronies. Probably not for the majority of the rest of us.

We are seeing some benefits of Brexit play out right before our eyes as Europe wrings its hands in horror at what is happening to it.
Thank goodness for the strength of BREXIT Great Britain, its Government and Opposition party standing firm against the belligerent Putin.
We have been free and able to do so much more to assist the Ukraine. This may not be welcomed or understood by those who hate our Government , our PM our F.Sec as a matter of principle.
It seems that the......" United States of Europe" may be some way off. Our arms industry, intelligence services and nuclear deterrent will assist europe as it struggles to survive the aggressor. They will be grateful for our help and pleased that we paid our subscriptions to NATO. Which some don't. Ahem.
It would be churlish to sing ' Swing low sweet chariot ..' too early.

ATNotts 22nd Feb 2022 10:54


Originally Posted by Right20deg (Post 11187975)
We are seeing some benefits of Brexit play out right before our eyes as Europe wrings its hands in horror at what is happening to it.
Thank goodness for the strength of BREXIT Great Britain, its Government and Opposition party standing firm against the belligerent Putin.
We have been free and able to do so much more to assist the Ukraine. This may not be welcomed or understood by those who hate our Government , our PM our F.Sec as a matter of principle.
It seems that the......" United States of Europe" may be some way off. Our arms industry, intelligence services and nuclear deterrent will assist europe as it struggles to survive the aggressor. They will be grateful for our help and pleased that we paid our subscriptions to NATO. Which some don't. Ahem.
It would be churlish to sing ' Swing low sweet chariot ..' too early.

More deranged nonsense, I expected little more.

Everything the UK is doing today regarding Russia / Ukraine could have, and would have been done had the UK been in the EU and you know that full well. However using the freedoms that they have within the EU, both France and Germany are attempting to defuse the situation (though I doubt they'll achieve much however laudable their efforts are) while the UK (including the leader of the opposition I hasten to add) are simply hanging on the US coat tails and engaging in war mongering that is designed to goad Putin into doing something stupid. Again how that plays out remains to be seen.

Too much time spent in the yacht club bar before hitting the keyboard methinks!:ouch:

Cornish Jack 22nd Feb 2022 10:55

Possibly the most worrying thing about R20's post, is that there will be a substantial number of people who will agree with him.
So far, the Buffoon's (and others) doughty British reponse to Putin's outrageous threats, is that he (Putin) has gone right ahead and done what he intended ! Well done the Buffoon - that'll teach them not to mess with us !
Meanwhile, those who have a grasp of history and are less wedded to the importance of sound-bites versus diplomacy, attempt to 'jaw-jaw' rather than 'war-war'. Unfortunately, that principle (a concept foreign to the present regime), was espoused by a genuine Statesman, not a drivelling wannabe !

ATNotts 22nd Feb 2022 11:07


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11188076)
Possibly the most worrying thing about R20's post, is that there will be a substantial number of people who will agree with him.
So far, the Buffoon's (and others) doughty British reponse to Putin's outrageous threats, is that he (Putin) has gone right ahead and done what he intended ! Well done the Buffoon - that'll teach them not to mess with us !
Meanwhile, those who have a grasp of history and are less wedded to the importance of sound-bites versus diplomacy, attempt to 'jaw-jaw' rather than 'war-war'. Unfortunately, that principle (a concept foreign to the present regime), was espoused by a genuine Statesman, not a drivelling wannabe !

More worrying is that Starmer is doing exactly what he did with Covid at the outset; slavishly following Johnson's lead. Of course the reason this time is to keep (former) red wall ex-Labour voters on board with the tabloids such as "The Sun" who will be in the vanguard of war mongering, jingoism and supporting the US line. If he took a different line watch those papers go for him.

pug 22nd Feb 2022 11:09


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11188082)
More worrying is that Starmer is doing exactly what he did with Covid at the outset; slavishly following Johnson's lead. Of course the reason this time is to keep (former) red wall ex-Labour voters on board with the tabloids such as "The Sun" who will be in the vanguard of war mongering, jingoism and supporting the US line. If he took a different line watch those papers go for him.

Notice Boris trying to invoke the Brexit jingoists by suggesting this is the biggest threat in Europe since 1945 - the result is the blatant effluence of the sort posted above by Right20deg. A simple mention of 1945 is enough to get the upside down flag waving brigade to attention. Plays right into the hands of the (minority) of people who continue to want to push Brexit to their own ends and smokescreen the fallout.

Cornish Jack 22nd Feb 2022 11:30

ATN - precisely !
I suspect that Starmer means well, but, whereas the Buffoon can rely an a large, unthinking swathe of backbenchers, any Labour leader has a large hard-core part of the membership to deal with. Bliar benefitted from the hard work put in by the garrulous Welshman but Starmer (definitely) has no such forerunner !

Torquetalk 22nd Feb 2022 11:57


Originally Posted by Right20deg (Post 11187975)
It would be churlish to sing ' Swing low sweet chariot ..' too early.

Well...more pathetic than churlish. But you have to be a bit lost in a rarified sense of your own importance and ignorance, to not get how overblown and silly you appear to others.

Britain and NATO coming to the rescue of Europe? No, the US will play that role if it comes to it. Which it won't.

Meanwhile, the UK will continue its post-Suez decline , because it sill hasn't got a vision of where it wants to go in a post-colonial future. It has been trading on the fat of finance sector advantage; whilst perilously thin on substantive wealth in assets and quality. Brexit is an accelerant in the UK's decline, not a catalyst for rejuvenation. Why? Because we can't actually afford the level of renewal needed, especially now we have turned our back on our trading partners in a childish, isolationist hissy fit.

Krystal n chips 22nd Feb 2022 11:58


Originally Posted by Right20deg (Post 11187975)
We are seeing some benefits of Brexit play out right before our eyes as Europe wrings its hands in horror at what is happening to it.
Thank goodness for the strength of BREXIT Great Britain, its Government and Opposition party standing firm against the belligerent Putin.
We have been free and able to do so much more to assist the Ukraine. This may not be welcomed or understood by those who hate our Government , our PM our F.Sec as a matter of principle.
It seems that the......" United States of Europe" may be some way off. Our arms industry, intelligence services and nuclear deterrent will assist europe as it struggles to survive the aggressor. They will be grateful for our help and pleased that we paid our subscriptions to NATO. Which some don't. Ahem.
It would be churlish to sing ' Swing low sweet chariot ..' too early.

Do you just replenish your diluted bloodstream on an hourly basis, or prior to posting on here for "inspiration " ?

The "benefits " of Brexit ?..well today, a Ms M Batters, President of the NFU, is going to give a speech concerning farming, this Gov't and, surprisingly enough, the combination of Boris / Gove lies and..Brexit. You may need to reach for a few trebles when you read it.

The "United States of Europe", oh man, that's priceless ! Thanks for including it however because it's a long debunked urban myth and the fact you chose to include it kindly demonstrates how detached you are from reality.

The bit about your enthusiasm for an obsolete deterrent, nuclear weapons, is more concerning however. You seem to be unaware there are now weapons available that can deliver the same effects without contaminating the land for " xxx " years...and something called cyber warfare which is considerably more dangerous .

Finally, saw this...and thought of you.

Remains of ‘world’s largest Jurassic pterosaur’ recovered in Scotland | Dinosaurs | The Guardian

Right20deg 22nd Feb 2022 12:10

ATNotts,
Pray do read what the UK Head of Armed Forces, present and retired have to say on the matter. It is not pretty. These leaders speak with a good deal of knowledge, history and an intelligence background.
Anger and fright is allowed and expected, however one may choose to express it.

Grayfly 22nd Feb 2022 15:03

Right20deg posts are straight from one of many online plot generators which string together a story line from the words you feed it. Quite amusing. I suspect this is one of many devices being used in the cyber attacks from Russia. We may actually die laughing.

Effluent Man 22nd Feb 2022 16:45

And as regards Ukraine, that far away country of which we know nothing. F*** not given!

Cornish Jack 22nd Feb 2022 17:01

Pray do read what the UK Head of Armed Forces, present and retired have to say on the matter. It is not pretty. These leaders speak with a good deal of knowledge, history and an intelligence background.
... then read the accounts featured in Tom Bowers' biography of Bliar and the Generals (various), the qualities of their advice and the motivations behind them ! After that, "The confusion of command" by Jon Snow featuring the diary accounts of his great-grandfather in WW ! and the demonstrated 'expertise' of British (and French) High Command ! Eisenhower's assessment of Montgomery. as noted in John Terrane's "Right of the Line" could assist you in bringing light to your 'star-struck' views.

Right20deg 22nd Feb 2022 17:35

Yes, the "change curve"..... SARAH is at work here. Surprise...Anger.....Resentment...Acceptance.....HELP.
Never easy to manage or to watch in a group.. or gang.

pr00ne 22nd Feb 2022 18:51


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 11188269)
And as regards Ukraine, that far away country of which we know nothing. F*** not given!

Thankfully you are in a tiny minority.


Mr Mac 22nd Feb 2022 20:52

pr00ne
When I looked at UK headlines it was not headline news, but now Biden has spoken it is. EM,s comment may well be right for a good section of the UK populace, after all they are “foreigners in a distant land” so not much to concern voters in Red Wall seats, apart from the large impact it will have on the cost of living, which they may not be as well prepared for as some.

Cheers
Mr Mac

Cornish Jack 22nd Feb 2022 21:26


Originally Posted by Right20deg (Post 11188299)
Yes, the "change curve"..... SARAH is at work here. Surprise...Anger.....Resentment...Acceptance.....HELP.
Never easy to manage or to watch in a group.. or gang.

Aaaaaaaagh ! ... which 'Away Day' motivation nerds provided you with that acronym ? You really must start to think for yourself - these people are just out to preach from the De Bono lateral thinking nonsense. Making things from paper clips, however clever it may seem, isn't going to get you that promotion you are looking for So, buck up, man ! All this white board scribbling and Powerpoint bullet-point strewn slides are nothing to do with real life ! I promise you, if you try really hard and apply yourself, you will make progress - maybe quite slowly. because of your limitations, but, however long it may take, it will be worth it - believe me :ok:

SWBKCB 22nd Feb 2022 21:29


Originally Posted by Mr Mac (Post 11188413)
pr00ne
after all they are “foreigners in a distant land” so not much to concern voters in Red Wall seats,

Cheers
Mr Mac

patronise us some more, why don't you?


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