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Ancient Observer 31st Oct 2021 15:03

This place is a boring echo-chamber.

The youngsters let us down. All these degrees, and they allowed the peasants to vote us out.

End of.

PDR1 31st Oct 2021 17:39


Originally Posted by Ancient Observer (Post 11135042)
This place is a boring echo-chamber.

The youngsters let us down. All these degrees, and they allowed the peasants to vote us out.

End of.

Hate to allow facts to interfere with the whinge, but if you check you'll find most of the "youngsters" voted remain - it was the oldies who mostly voted leave.

So if we were to be fair we should fund the consequences with a 50% levy on pensions as well. Let them take responsibility for their actions.

PDR

ATNotts 31st Oct 2021 17:44


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11135011)
So basically the same as every election? There never seems to be a lot of "Oh I'm glad we voted this lot in"

Thread does seem to have become an echo chamber with little new content or opinion.

Except this wasn't an election, it was a referendum, the consequences of which are unlikely to be reversed by any sort of public vote for 20-odd years, rather than the 5 years between general elections. That is why there should have been some benchmarks put in place either in terms of turn out, or in terms of margin of victory.

Mr Mac 31st Oct 2021 18:03

ATNotts
The problem was the Tory Party, and David Cameron’s lack of control of one end of it, which other leaders of the party had the ball,s to stamp on. Unfortunately Dave not unlike Bojo craved popularity. Many people on here, in certain age groups, will know what it is to have worked with a boss, who maybe was very good at their job, but lacked empathy, I know I have. Having left organisations and distanced myself, you start to realise that ultimately you need to be good, and then graft on the rest of cuddly feely bits. Dave was not good, and was trying to be too empathetic, and the UK now ends up where it is. I do not believe history will be kind to him or Boris.

Cheers
Mr Mac

alfaman 31st Oct 2021 18:12


Originally Posted by longer ron (Post 11135037)
Sorry I of course meant postal vote



In my last job I was working 70 miles away from my home (for 13 years) - so perhaps I am not quite as ignorant as you think ;)

Well, if you meant postal vote, don't type proxy ;) . You still need to be registered at an address when the electoral role is taken, which for those in further education isn't always possible: I have two sons in exactly that position. The process is skewed towards those that are geographically stable, who tend to be older, & away from those who are in a more transient period of life, who tend to be younger. That's the state of it, however you want to try to ignore it. All the political parties are aware that voter participation is fading away, all know there are ways of fixing it, but it certainly doesn't suit the Conservative Party, hence why efforts to address it are ineffectual.

Ninthace 31st Oct 2021 18:23


Originally Posted by alfaman (Post 11135120)
Well, if you meant postal vote, don't type proxy ;) . You still need to be registered at an address when the electoral role is taken, which for those in further education isn't always possible: I have two sons in exactly that position. The process is skewed towards those that are geographically stable, who tend to be older, & away from those who are in a more transient period of life, who tend to be younger. That's the state of it, however you want to try to ignore it. All the political parties are aware that voter participation is fading away, all know there are ways of fixing it, but it certainly doesn't suit the Conservative Party, hence why efforts to address it are ineffectual.

There is a flaw in there somewhere Alfaman. You can be resident overseas and still have a postal vote. A member of UK forces for example. When I emigrated to France, I still voted in UK general elections, I also had a vote in France but in National elections.

Alsacienne 31st Oct 2021 20:52


by definition, people who didn’t vote, didn’t vote for Brexit. Only those who voted gave their view and consent either way.
Sorry folks, out comes my particular soap box .... please remember that a significant number of Brits were disenfranchised from voting because of the 15-year eligibility rule! Many of us would have given our eye-teeth to be allowed to vote ... so please don't forget that some of us wanted to vote but were not allowed to express a view either way.


When I emigrated to France, I still voted in UK general elections, I also had a vote in France but in National elections.
So did I, but no longer have the privilege to vote in ANY election either here or there. Thank you Brexit. SIGH!

alfaman 31st Oct 2021 21:57


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11135124)
There is a flaw in there somewhere Alfaman. You can be resident overseas and still have a postal vote. A member of UK forces for example. When I emigrated to France, I still voted in UK general elections, I also had a vote in France but in National elections.

That's correct, a postal vote doesn't require a UK address, just an address - I didn't say otherwise. Our eldest has a postal vote for that reason. However, university students may be in halls of residence, temporary accommodation, & short term lets, all within a college year. Which address should they register at, and when?

alfaman 31st Oct 2021 22:03


Originally Posted by Alsacienne (Post 11135172)
Sorry folks, out comes my particular soap box .... please remember that a significant number of Brits were disenfranchised from voting because of the 15-year eligibility rule! Many of us would have given our eye-teeth to be allowed to vote ... so please don't forget that some of us wanted to vote but were not allowed to express a view either way.

So did I, but no longer have the privilege to vote in ANY election either here or there. Thank you Brexit. SIGH!

I'm sorry to hear that: I have family in the same position - estimates seem to think you're one of somewhere between 5.5 million & 13.1 million people UK citizens who live abroad - makes you wonder what the result might have been had only a proportion of those voted to remain...

Krystal n chips 1st Nov 2021 09:28

And enter our new Foreign Sec. Clearly inspired by the Great Leader himself, it appears the vacuous Ms Truss now wishes to do her Catherine of Aragon impression.

Presumably a minion will have shown her a map so she is now aware of where France is.

France has 48 hours to back down in fishing row, warns Liz Truss | Foreign policy | The Guardian

Effluent Man 1st Nov 2021 09:51

Yeah, that should do the trick. Thick Lizzy ( pop pun there) will have them quaking in their boots at the thought of confronting The British Empire.

blimey 1st Nov 2021 10:13

Gents
You seem to have forgotten to move your clocks forward by 5 years.

Avionker 1st Nov 2021 10:41


Originally Posted by blimey (Post 11135391)
Gents
You seem to have forgotten to move your clocks forward by 5 years.

A certain cohort of Brexit supporters appear to have forgotten to move theirs on by about a hundred years…

Ninthace 1st Nov 2021 11:25

Both in the military and in industry, before one embarks on a major project or change in strategy it is important to first evaluate the proposal to see if the advantages outweigh the disadvantages and to determine if the benefits are worth the potential costs. Key to this is the definition of the aim and the required end state to so you can tell if you are achieving your goals.

Once the decision has been taken and the plan is put in action, it is normal to check to see if the initial estimation was correct to ensure that the benefits are actually being achieved and progress is being made towards the end state. If the plan is not achieving the aim, it is normal to adjust and reevaluate to try to get to back on track and certainly not to reinforce failure.

What I see on here are many posts saying the decision has been made and we are not to question if the plan is working or if the aims are being met and the benefits are being achieved. I believe part of this is because there is a dawning realisation that the benefits were never defined in objective terms and so progress, or the lack thereof, cannot be measured. This also throws open the possibility that the plan is not working and failure is being reinforced.

I accept that debates on here to determine if the plan is working or not will have no effect on the real world but I see no benefits in stifling discussion.


Sallyann1234 1st Nov 2021 13:04

To stop discussing Brexit now would be to let the guilty off the hook.

Grayfly 1st Nov 2021 13:16


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11135435)

I accept that debates on here to determine if the plan is working or not will have no effect on the real world but I see no benefits in stifling discussion.

The plan was to leave the EU. We left the EU. The plan worked 100%.

As to the benefits etc they weren't part of the question

You can't reverse suicide is what we are now discovering.

Ninthace 1st Nov 2021 13:29


Originally Posted by Grayfly (Post 11135503)
The plan was to leave the EU. We left the EU. The plan worked 100%.

As to the benefits etc they weren't part of the question

You can't reverse suicide is what we are now discovering.

Can't help but think that is something of a gross over simplification :ok:
However I suspect some of the thought processes of those that voted did not go much beyond that.

SimonPaddo 1st Nov 2021 13:42


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11135515)
Can't help but think that is something of a gross over simplification :ok:
However I suspect some of the thought processes of those that voted did not go much beyond that.

Think that’s the nail hit on the head right there.

pug 1st Nov 2021 15:39


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11135515)
Can't help but think that is something of a gross over simplification :ok:
However I suspect some of the thought processes of those that voted did not go much beyond that.

Too true, sadly. To many who voted leave it seems it was a protest vote for completely undefined ‘change’. Regardless of what that change was, they would have voted against the status quo at a referendum. Unfortunately the referendum was to leave the EU and thus here we are. Add a political system based on popularism led by narcissism in place of rationalism and you have a perfect storm.

There is a reluctance in the U.K. for historical introspection, though it seems to be coming to the surface in the much maligned ‘woke’ culture. Perhaps if people knew their true place in the world then the question of leaving the EU would have remained solely within the realms of the fanatical far right, and gone no further than to gain a few - less harmful - token soap box rants from the like of Farage.

Views of ardent Brexiteers will not change, but we will have a voter population coming through who are more worldly aware, who haven’t been brought up on comic books of the plucky brits against the ‘Japs’ and ‘Jerry’. These will be the ones forced to clear up the wreckage and pick the bones.

Pain in the R's 1st Nov 2021 16:56

Think it is quite sad that many people here still don’t accept a democratic vote that was taken 5 years ago. We are out and there is no going back as the great British public would never accept the Euro or the other terms put on the U.K. The French have said the U.K. still needs to be punished for daring to leaving the EU. That says a great deal about the EU mindset. Why people here would still want to be controlled by failed European politicians who were gifted the role of unelected commissioners like Neil Kinnock is beyond me.


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