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-   -   BREXIT (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/619673-brexit.html)

Gargleblaster 29th Oct 2021 11:32

There's a lot of hindsight here, and it isn't pretty. How's about looking forward, even though that may not be pretty either ?

A drop in GDP of 4% + 2% has to translate to a drop of 6% in living standards.

Irrespective of who is governing the country, what options does the UK have, say in the next 10 years ?

Is a deal Š la what Norway and Iceland have a possibility after all, despite it involving the UK being under EU regulations, including the free movement of labour, and having nada to say on EU rule-making ? I'm guessing not edible.

The above minus the free movement of labour ? Guessing not.

Ask to rejoin under the exact same terms as before ? Would the EU countries approve that ?

Go all in on the Singapore upon Thames idea (whatever that means) ?

Ninthace 29th Oct 2021 11:53

Not sure there is a lot of hindsight. A lot a people both before the referendum, and subsequently during the negotiation of the "easiest trade deal", predicted Brexit was a bad idea and thus, so far, it has proved to be and the OBR concurs.
What I do not see in this forum, is anyone pointing to the delivery of any of the benefits that were predicted during the lead up to the referendum, despite repeated requests by contributors to that effect. Nor do I see anyone making the case that the disbenefits are a price worth paying.

Cornish Jack 29th Oct 2021 13:35

What I do not see in this forum, is anyone pointing to the delivery of any of the benefits that were predicted during the lead up to the referendum, despite repeated requests by contributors to that effect.
That nice Mr Useless was asked that same (or similar) question on the Beeb's 'Today' programme this morning, and he leapt in with the spirited response that we already had agreements with Australia and NZ. Who could doubt the golden opportunities awaiting a nation which has made such a stunning, hard-fought success.

BizJetJock 29th Oct 2021 13:43

I do laugh at the concept that because the referendum was only "advisory" the government could have chosen to ignore it. Apart frrm the fact that they explicitly stated in advance that they would implement the result, I wonder what this forum would have looked like if the vote had been for remain, but because it was "only advisory" the government decided they knew better than the electorate and would leave anyway...

Torquetalk 29th Oct 2021 13:51


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11134035)
What I do not see in this forum, is anyone pointing to the delivery of any of the benefits that were predicted during the lead up to the referendum, despite repeated requests by contributors to that effect.
That nice Mr Useless was asked that same (or similar) question on the Beeb's 'Today' programme this morning, and he leapt in with the spirited response that we already had agreements with Australia and NZ. Who could doubt the golden opportunities awaiting a nation which has made such a stunning, hard-fought success.

Marvellous. New Zealand lamb and Anchor butter coming back to your table. Does it get any better?

Avionker 29th Oct 2021 14:35


Originally Posted by BizJetJock (Post 11134039)
I do laugh at the concept that because the referendum was only "advisory" the government could have chosen to ignore it. Apart frrm the fact that they explicitly stated in advance that they would implement the result, I wonder what this forum would have looked like if the vote had been for remain, but because it was "only advisory" the government decided they knew better than the electorate and would leave anyway...

Legally they could have, politically it would have been suicide. As the whole point of the thing in the first place was to allow the Tories to stay in power, at any cost, it's hardly surprising that they put party before country yet again, and forged ahead with it.

No need for quotation for marks by the way, all UK wide referenda, are by definition advisory, as sovereignty lies with parliament, not the people, maybe...

alfaman 29th Oct 2021 14:36


Originally Posted by BizJetJock (Post 11134039)
I do laugh at the concept that because the referendum was only "advisory" the government could have chosen to ignore it. Apart frrm the fact that they explicitly stated in advance that they would implement the result, I wonder what this forum would have looked like if the vote had been for remain, but because it was "only advisory" the government decided they knew better than the electorate and would leave anyway...

Advisory doesn't mean ignore it: Cameron could/should have taken the result back to Brussels & negotiated on the basis of the feeling of disenchantment that the referendum showed. Throwing the towel in, resigning & handing it to the leave campaign on a plate perhaps indicates the true motivation behind the whole scheme: undermine the EU, & the tightening of financial & tax loopholes the EU has pursued, so those who have spent years avoiding scrutiny of their finances, such as the Barclays, Aaron Banks, Richard Desmond, Rupert Murdoch, Jonathan Harmsworth etc, can continue to do so whilst they laugh at the rest of us.

Bergerie1 29th Oct 2021 16:31

For such an important constitutional change would not something like the Australian system have been better. Perhaps not a legal obligation to vote (that would have been a step too far) but a clear statement of the majority required and that the resut would be advisory. I leave you all to decide what majority should have been sufficient. But, clearly, the majority of people in the UK (taking into account the abstainers) did NOT vote to leave the EU.

https://www.aec.gov.au/elections/ref...%20territories

El Grifo 29th Oct 2021 16:37

Especially in Scotland Bergerie !
62/38% in favour of remaining.

Something that logically has sparked the call for another referendum, bearing in mind that the purveyors of fear last time around pointed out that a vote for independence would ultimately lead to dismissal from the EU !!
The Irony !!!!
El Grifo

rickyricks 29th Oct 2021 18:30


Originally Posted by Torquetalk (Post 11133543)
Never, ever? Well Iíll chalk that up as an achievement then.

I appreciate that as a still rationalising Brexiteer you might not be terribly worldly (or at least just getting the news you want to hear); but that I have succeeded in making the most ridiculous analogy in all your years is quite something 🙂

Did you also appreciate the one about leg amputations on the NHS?

I am not a Brexiteer, just a realist, the country voted to leave, get used to it. And your analogies just get worse - are you some sort of psychopath who drowns pets?

Effluent Man 29th Oct 2021 19:24

Even the most ardent fans turning on the project now. Paul Lines the Lowestoft fishermen who headed up Leave for the industry on the wireless saying Tubs de Pfeffel used them for the election and then dumped them. George Useless saying " we will fight them on the beaches".

Torquetalk 29th Oct 2021 20:10


Originally Posted by rickyricks (Post 11134161)
I am not a Brexiteer, just a realist, the country voted to leave, get used to it. And your analogies just get worse - are you some sort of psychopath who drowns pets?

Actually, I am. But how did you know that?

So you are not a Brexiteer, but a realist and you feel we should just get used to it. Do you mean we should shut up about it? And is this your position on Jet Blast, on a thread titled Brexit?

Isn't that like taking up astronomy and then complaining that the stars are causing light pollution?

Effluent Man 29th Oct 2021 20:42

Getting used to it could be quite tough. A lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, farmers, fisherfolk etc. and that is without the prospect of a trade war. If France turns nasty they could end up checking the cargo of every truck entering France. You can be fairly certain that the Douaniers will be enjoying some long, leisurely luncheons.

Sallyann1234 30th Oct 2021 08:29

Well it looks like the battle lines are being drawn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59100410

Krystal n chips 30th Oct 2021 08:29


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 11134210)
Getting used to it could be quite tough. A lot of people are going to lose their livelihoods, farmers, fisherfolk etc. and that is without the prospect of a trade war. If France turns nasty they could end up checking the cargo of every truck entering France. You can be fairly certain that the Douaniers will be enjoying some long, leisurely luncheons.

Macron has the advantage here in that he's dealing with Boris's "personality " first and foremost rather than any serious political intent. He has the disadvantage of dealing with a proven liar and the cult following Boris has engineered and who would put their deity above any thoughts concerning livelihoods on either side of the Channel to protect him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59100410

Today's Telegraph has kindly added to the jingoism but kindly stopped short of placing the UK on a war footing and mobilising the Home Fleet...even if the title no longer exists .

Newspaper headlines: 'Last chance' to save Earth, and UK 'must be punished' - BBC News

N707ZS 30th Oct 2021 08:42

We haven't got a Home Fleet anymore. Edit just found two, out on deployment.
Royal Navy offshore patrol vessels visit San Diego to start Pacific deployment (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)

Krystal n chips 30th Oct 2021 08:57


Originally Posted by N707ZS (Post 11134369)
We haven't got a Home Fleet anymore. Edit just found two, out on deployment.
Royal Navy offshore patrol vessels visit San Diego to start Pacific deployment (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)

I know, but we have in the hearts and minds of those fixated with days of Empire and Britain ruling the waves.

Sallyann1234 30th Oct 2021 09:02


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 11134364)
Macron has the advantage here in that he's dealing with Boris's "personality " first and foremost rather than any serious political intent. He has the disadvantage of dealing with a proven liar and the cult following Boris has engineered and who would put their deity above any thoughts concerning livelihoods on either side of the Channel to protect him.

I'm not so sure about that. They don't deify him, they just know they are lost without him. They are all tainted by Brexit and when the consequences really begin to bite they will all go down together.

Then perhaps we can have a real Conservative Party again.

Yes I know - dream on!

Ninthace 30th Oct 2021 09:34


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11134376)
I'm not so sure about that. They don't deify him, they just know they are lost without him. They are all tainted by Brexit and when the consequences really begin to bite they will all go down together.

Then perhaps we can have a real Conservative Party again.

Yes I know - dream on!

Go on then, let's play Fantasy Conservative Party. Name your own Cabinet.

N707ZS 30th Oct 2021 10:32


Originally Posted by Ninthace (Post 11134386)
Go on then, let's play Fantasy Conservative Party. Name your own Cabinet.

I suppose tomorrow is Halloween, name the biggest ghoul first then.


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