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Steepclimb 14th Aug 2019 22:55


Originally Posted by pax britanica (Post 10543879)
Not that much of the media will point ti out but Boris has for
1 Outright lies
2 Deceiving people-viz his wife and newspaper editors he falsified stories for
3 Deceiving himself- has not the faintest idea where the money for all these things will come from-not the Rich or American corporations thats for sure
4 Being easily influenced through his vanity and laziness -all well documented
5 Not understanding the consequences of his actions might take more than a week to emerge

Also any PM who threatens the sovereignty of parliament should be instantly removed from office and face charges of treason. A s we have no head of state as such we have only parliament between us dictatorship and that looks like where we will be heading if parliament is removed form the equation. How about the PM just deciding he will stay in power for ten years or maybe twenty . 1930s Germany 20teens England far far too may similarities

I'm sorry Pax, you are utterly wasting your time. They won't be convinced. The 1930's Germany comparison is apt not that they realise and in any case you'll be accused of Godwinism.
Unfortunately I have become convinced that only a no deal exit will fix the problem. While the consequences will be disastrous and there will casualties, a lot of casualties mostly among the Landsers of the loyalists who voted for Brexit. Eventually people will wonder what on Earth they were thinking believing in a crazy man and his acolytes.

You see remaining in the EU will be seen as a betrayal and foster extremism forever. Signing up to the Versailles agreement , sorry exit deal will just put off the war for a few years.

No a hard Brexit and all its consequences might finally end the cult of British exceptionalism, no English exceptionalism.

A bit like Germany.

Maybe it's needed. But the United Kingdom is doomed. The last vestige of the English empire.





​​​​​

Krystal n chips 15th Aug 2019 06:13

Taken verbatim ( bit of Latin there please note ORAC ) from a report in today's Guardian.......

" A No 10 spokesman responded to Corbyn’s letter saying there was a “a clear choice: either Jeremy Corbyn as prime minister who will overrule the referendum and wreck the economy, or Boris Johnson as prime minister who will respect the referendum and deliver more money for the NHS and more police on our streets”.

‘This government believes the people are the masters and votes should be respected, Jeremy Corbyn believes that the people are the servants and politicians can cancel public votes they don’t like,” he added "

Obviously, any statement from No 10 is unlikely to say Boris is hell bent on using Brexit as his personal ego massager and the less than subtle electioneering references to the NHS / Police are now par for the course.

But it's the last bit, as underlined, that's in a puerile class of it's own......given Boris is, seemingly, intent on his own version of autocracy .....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...andoff-cartoon

ORAC 15th Aug 2019 06:26

It’s the election message isn’t it? Boris the man on the side of the people against the out of touch elitist politicians intent to thwart it.

Meantime, in response to JC’s letter, “Meatloaf Remainerism” runs rampant........

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...rope-3tjcnlxf9

In a letter to Ms Swinson and other opposition leaders Mr Corbyn wrote: “This government has no mandate for no-deal, and the 2016 EU referendum provided no mandate for no-deal. I therefore intend to table a vote of no confidence at the earliest opportunity when we can be confident of success. Following a successful vote of no confidence in the government, I would then, as leader of the opposition, seek the confidence of the house for a strictly time-limited temporary government with the aim of calling a general election, and securing the necessary extension of Article 50 to do so.”

Ms Swinson said: “Jeremy Corbyn is not the person who is going to be able to build an even temporary majority in the House of Commons for this task — I would expect there are people in his own party and indeed the necessary Conservative backbenchers who would be unwilling to support him. It is a nonsense. This letter is just more red lines that are about him and his position and is not a serious attempt to find the right solution and build a consensus to stop a no-deal Brexit.

“I think the best way to do it is for parliament to pass a piece of legislation to say that we should request an extension to Article 50 for the purposes of holding a people’s vote and get the public to be able to express their view on the deal with the EU versus staying in.” She added, however, that “it’s not the only way of doing it” and agreed that a confidence vote may be necessary.

The Lib Dem leader, 39, who has ruled out a formal coalition with Mr Corbyn after the next election, appeared at a joint event with Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, this week. She admitted yesterday that she had not spoken to Mr Corbyn since her election last month. She refused to be drawn on whether the party would govern with Labour if Mr Corbyn were replaced by a leader committed to staying in the EU.

She said it was unfair to suggest that Remain MPs appeared to be a “rabble” in the face of Mr Johnson’s government.

Dr Wollaston, the MP for Totnes, conceded that “it does look like chaos” but added: “We have a unified plan . . . we’ll be hearing more about that.”.......



Effluent Man 15th Aug 2019 06:52

It can't be Corbyn to lead this,and well he knows it. It is a cynical and not very clever attempt to present himself as an honest broker, something that he patently is not. No this is about continuing to ride both horses at once and to enhance his prospects when the inevitable GE does come. As a spin off to this it improves the chances of a NoDeal exit which again suits Corbyn's purpose because he wants out and preferably in a way that is as damaging as possible to the country so that he can point to the Pfeffel created chaos.

Just as a little bonus this is sure to bring back the NI troubles. The Provos are just itching to get stuck into the inevitable border posts, knock off a couple of PSNI men who are sent to protect them and get the Paras back for a rematch of the undecided series. What a bloody mess!

MOSTAFA 15th Aug 2019 07:30

Undecided series? It was the IRA (they were all banged up or dead) and a pathetic government that sued for peace. Those Paraís did a great job along with the rest of The British Army until they were betrayed and continue to be betrayed to this day.

ORAC 15th Aug 2019 07:35

Addendum to my last post from POLITICO.....

”Former Tory Remainer Anna Soubry, who now leads the five-strong Independent Group for Change, was miffed nit to even be cc’d in on the letter, and said that while a national unity leader was needed Corbyn was “not that person.” The SNP, Plaid and the Greens all made rather warmer noises, while still managing to slag Labour off.”


back to Boeing 15th Aug 2019 08:07


Originally Posted by Jack D (Post 10545401)


Hammond is the MP for Runnymede in Surrey, his constituents voted to leave the EU. He voted to remain, he is betraying his constituents this is not what he was elected to do.

Esther Mcvhey is the MP for tatton, her constituents voted to remain in the EU. She voted to leave, she is betraying her constituents this is not what she was elected to do.

Actually no, she was elected in a constituency where a pig in a blue rosette would be elected in the 2017 election, despite people knowing she voted to leave.

Despite brexit people are not voted in on one political point. Hammond was re-elected in 2017 despite his constituents knowing he was a remainer. Politics didnít end back in 2016.

Pontius Navigator 15th Aug 2019 08:25


Originally Posted by back to Boeing (Post 10545604)
Hammond was re-elected in 2017 despite his constituents knowing he was a remainer. Politics didnít end back in 2016.

That is not the point at issue. He was elected to represent all his constituents and take note of their views. He was quite at liberty to try and remain in the EU. The point is that as chancellor he was undermining his own Governments position and supporting a PM who also believed that leaving was wrong.

Boris was correct to resign from a Cabinet that was working to leave supposedly but in reality wanted to remain.

May's coronation was the second mistake. Just hope Johnson's election isn't the third.

Krystal n chips 15th Aug 2019 08:28


Originally Posted by MOSTAFA (Post 10545571)
Undecided series? It was the IRA (they were all banged up or dead) and a pathetic government that sued for peace. Those Para’s did a great job along with the rest of The British Army until they were betrayed and continue to be betrayed to this day.


That has to be one of the most consciously biased summations of the 30 years of carnage that are sanitised as "The Troubles " yet to appear. The sheer complexity of the politics during this period, even before the inclusion of the military, seems to have eluded you completely and, to be frank, these political complexities alone will occupy historians and political analysts for innumerable years to come, but even then, no simple explanation will ever emerge

Back to current times and this item appeared last night........it's 21 mins long and contains a cross section of views and perspectives.......it also highlights the fact there's an increasing possibility of the extremists ( of all allegiances ) using the effects of Brexit to ferment their own destructive agendas.

https://www.channel4.com/news/50-yea...-a-hard-border

Thankfully, Sammy and Arlene appear to have been otherwise engaged........

Sallyann1234 15th Aug 2019 08:28


Originally Posted by back to Boeing (Post 10545604)

Politics didnít end back in 2016.

But they have changed, probably for ever.

Pontius Navigator 15th Aug 2019 08:28


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10545321)
It is just plain wrong that they can all p1ss off on holidays and party conferences under the present circumstance.

I would have disagreed if we were spared from Brexit for a month, but we aren't :(

ORAC 15th Aug 2019 08:36


Hammond was re-elected in 2017 despite his constituents knowing he was a remainer.
Not true. Below is his election leaflet for 2017. The back page is an emphatic endorsement of Brexit......

https://electionleaflets.org/leaflets/15493/images/

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....57990768b2.png



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....739ae161a9.png

ORAC 15th Aug 2019 08:58

Hmm. Lots of people saying Boris has started the blame game - I didn’t want no deal, They made me do it.

Now Labour is also starting the blame game. It wasn’t us that let Brexit happen - it was them.....


NutLoose 15th Aug 2019 09:02


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10545553)
It can't be Corbyn to lead this,and well he knows it. It is a cynical and not very clever attempt to present himself as an honest broker, something that he patently is not. No this is about continuing to ride both horses at once and to enhance his prospects when the inevitable GE does come. As a spin off to this it improves the chances of a NoDeal exit which again suits Corbyn's purpose because he wants out and preferably in a way that is as damaging as possible to the country so that he can point to the Pfeffel created chaos.



I cannot see how he can call a vote of confidence in a government and push for an early general election to put through a second referrendum or a "Labour Brexit" when he has no credible plan at hand to bring us out of the EU, which he would need to do to actually carry out any of his policies...

The line about his letter I find interesting is


In his letter, Mr Corbyn wrote: "This government has no mandate for no-deal, and the 2016 EU referendum provided no mandate for no-deal.
The referendum by its result had no mandate for staying in, it was a vote to leave plain and simple, no having another referrendum, the mandate was to leave and correct me if I am wrong, where on the form did it offer the means of leaving, ie soft or hard brexit.... ohhh wait it didn't.

Krystal n chips 15th Aug 2019 09:05

And lo and behold, what should emerge but this appetiser from a sector who may just have more than a passing interest in the salvation of the UK ( or Trump controlled trade deals, take your pick ) .........it's the bit about "no scientific basis " which suggests the effects of the consumption of said products clearly have a visible effect ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49353220

NutLoose 15th Aug 2019 09:08

Out of interest as Corbyn is planing to bring this vote, it has not taken place as of yet, what would happen in Johnston stood up in the house and announced he had taken on board the worries of the house and had decided to call a general election on the 5th November say, there is no point calling a vote to remove a Government that has decided to remove itself.

ORAC 15th Aug 2019 09:22


what would happen in Johnston stood up in the house and announced he had taken on board the worries of the house and had decided to call a general election on the 5th November
Not in his power. under the FTPA it needs a vote of two thirds of MPs to vote for it.

I would assume enough MPs would decline to support such a vote without a prior request, or legislation to request, an extension of the Brexit exit day till after the election.

wiggy 15th Aug 2019 09:28


it was a vote to leave plain and simple,
It was, and that is one of the reasons why this whole ********** has developed in the last three years...even the current PM has changed his views on what "leave" should involve more often than he has changed his under pants.

All the times Boris Johnson called for Britain to stay in the single market

rogerg 15th Aug 2019 09:52

Isn't underpants one word?

ORAC 15th Aug 2019 10:45

Only to be brief.


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