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Effluent Man 11th Mar 2021 08:08


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 11006247)
Why would they side with anyone at all?

Take a look at the Biden team. The surnames might provide a clue. I bet the EU did a merry dance when confronted with " negotiating" team of Frosty the Nomark and Tubs de Pfeffel. Maybe should have taken their mate Donaldo's advice on how to do a deal. The one they did was an omnishambles. The UK has been sold down the river by Hardy and Hardy the dismal duo.

ATNotts 11th Mar 2021 08:39


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 11006168)
Solids about to strike the air con over NI. EU taking the UK to court and it looks awfully like the USA isn't going to side with the UK.

A lot of Brexiteers are going to be very disappointed when they wake up to the USA not riding to the UK's aid in the way they did in the two world wars of the 20th century. Had Trump still been in the Whitehouse (Gawd forbid) then the response may have been different, but the Biden administration will see the UK / EU spat as a) entirely of the UK's making; b) not their fight since there are no allies to be over run, or to move from NATO's camp into Russia's sphere of influence,; and c) they see the way the UK is behaving is counter productive for peace on the island of Ireland and potentially to Ireland's wellbeing, and in the race for votes Irish Americans trump (with a small 't') the "special relationship" every day.

The UK is on its own and likely to come out bloodied, if not defeated unless it works with the EU.

Sallyann1234 11th Mar 2021 08:41


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 11006247)
Why would they side with anyone at all?

Do you really need to ask? Look at the history of US connection and involvement with Ireland.

Krystal n chips 11th Mar 2021 08:42

Sadly, more ( bad ) scoured news.....carefully hidden deep inside the columns of the Guardian....no doubt those mentioned in the report will be to blame for not preparing their businesses

Any good news about Brexit will, of course, be brought to JB's contributors attention given we Guardian readers is noted for equal ops after all.....there may be a few years delay, if ever, before such news appears.

Brexit: trade survey finds 74% of British firms hit by delays with EU markets | Trade policy | The Guardian

ORAC 11th Mar 2021 09:45


Any good news about Brexit will, of course, be brought to JB's contributors attention given we Guardian readers is noted for equal ops after all.....there may be a few years delay, if ever, before such news appears.
You must have missed this is in the papers - also on Sky news....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...tain-krrmmvfrb

Global bosses backing Britain

Britain is a more attractive investment proposition for multinational companies than it was before Brexit, a survey of 5,000 global business leaders has found.

The UK has overtaken India as the world’s fourth most promising growth opportunity, according to PwC’s annual CEO Survey. America, China and Germany remained the top three.

Writing in The Times today, Kevin Ellis, chairman of PwC UK, says: “The UK’s positive standing highlights what matters most to global business leaders.”......

PwC surveyed 5,050 chief executives from 100 countries in January and February. Half of the bosses ran businesses with annual revenues of more than $1 billion and 60 per cent were private. The survey found that 11 per cent of bosses chose the UK as a top three growth target, up from 9 per cent in autumn 2019 when the survey was last conducted.

The rebound in Britain’s fortunes confounds gloomy predictions in previous PwC surveys about its status after Brexit.

Chinese executives were particularly interested in Britain, with 13 per cent putting it in their top three investment targets, compared with 3 per cent in 2019. A quarter of India’s bosses put the UK in the top three, up from 9.5 per cent in 2019. Interest in Britain as a growth prospect also increased in Canada and New Zealand.....

PwC found that confidence was rebounding quickly. In autumn 2019, just 26 per cent of UK chief executives were very confident their business’s revenue prospects would improve. This year, the figure was 40 per cent. “Furthermore, 89 per cent are confident their revenue prospects will improve to some extent over the next 12 months. Over a three-year horizon this confidence increases further,” PwC said.


Britain’s prospects as coronavirus recedes are judged to be better than elsewhere. Although bosses across the world said they remained concerned about the economic uncertainty caused by the pandemic, the vast majority expect the global economy to improve.

In the UK, 26 per cent of bosses expected “great” improvement but only 15 per cent of global chiefs said the same. UK bosses were also more optimistic about jobs, with 56 per cent expecting their headcount to grow this year against 44 per cent of global executives.......

Krystal n chips 11th Mar 2021 09:59

ORAC,

Well as I don't read the Times, l other than your own enlightening contributions on here that is, this may be why.

However, given this glorious prediction came from non other than PwC ( see also "Private Eye " on a regular basis ) .....who may just have a teensy vested interest in plugging such, then, sadly, this isn't what I would call good news

SWBKCB 11th Mar 2021 10:28


Global bosses backing Britain
Does it say anywhere why they've come to such an opinion??

alicopter 11th Mar 2021 10:39


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11006495)
Does it say anywhere why they've come to such an opinion??

All you have to do is look around you... if you are in the UK, the answer is clear. Where else can you use and abuse with impunity or scrutiny the people? (I admire the resilience and the pain threshold of the British!!!) You can launder your dirty money, have a reasonably good chance of not paying taxes now that the EU is getting more serious about fighting avoidance. There are good prospects for any one willing to "invest" in filling the Tories coffers and if you can get on their "Friend" list, as you can see every day... Simples.

Sallyann1234 11th Mar 2021 11:18


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 11006477)
ORAC,

Well as I don't read the Times, l other than your own enlightening contributions on here that is, this may be why.

However, given this glorious prediction came from non other than PwC ( see also "Private Eye " on a regular basis ) .....who may just have a teensy vested interest in plugging such, then, sadly, this isn't what I would call good news

I do read the Times, Krystal.
In doing so I am usually able to spot the very occasional item of news that could be taken as an endorsement of the present government and will therefore be posted here by our usual contributor. I usually find them here, like the one you commented on. The rest of the news for some reason seems to pass by unnoticed.

Just as selective as your own quotes from the Guardian, I suppose.




SaulGoodman 11th Mar 2021 11:39


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11006404)
Do you really need to ask? Look at the history of US connection and involvement with Ireland.

If the EU take the UK to court I do not believe the US would interfere. Unless bombs go off. The US has more than enough issues on its own soil at the moment.

WB627 11th Mar 2021 11:45

OK I'll freely admit I have struggled to get my head round The Good Friday Agreement (GFA) and Brexit and I am likewise struggling to get my head around Article 16 and the Irish Sea border checks. So perhaps someone can help me please.....

As I read it the UK want to extend the easement on border checks and the EU want border checks imposed immediately.

As I understand it there is a conflict between the unstated but implied (I believe it was a fudge to get the agreement in the first place) terms in the GFA that are/would be breached if border checks were imposed. However, I am not sure how or why, as the checks are on goods not people as I understand it, which probably interferes with the illicit activities of the para militaries and therefore their funding/wealth but does not breach the GFA, either written or implied.

Now as I understand it Biden clearly said that the GFA was important in bringing peace to Ireland and he didn't want to have it affected by Brexit.

So why, when it is the EU that is INSISTING on border checks not the UK, has he got the hump with the UK, as he appears to have?

Does Biden actually understand the issues and what is going on, or is me that has got it wrong?


Sallyann1234 11th Mar 2021 12:08


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 11006541)
If the EU take the UK to court I do not believe the US would interfere. Unless bombs go off. The US has more than enough issues on its own soil at the moment.

Of course the US would not interfere in a court case. They can't, and don't need to.

The US is very pro-Ireland. It was a participant in and a strong supporter of the GFA. There are many ways that they can lean on the UK if they feel the GFA or stability in Ireland is going to be jeopardised by the consequences of Brexit.

Denti 11th Mar 2021 13:50


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11006545)
Now as I understand it Biden clearly said that the GFA was important in bringing peace to Ireland and he didn't want to have it affected by Brexit.

So why, when it is the EU that is INSISTING on border checks not the UK, has he got the hump with the UK, as he appears to have?

Does Biden actually understand the issues and what is going on, or is me that has got it wrong?

I believe the EU is not so huffed up about changing the grace periods in itself, but rather about the unilateral measures the UK takes. They want to negotiate about that stuff and take the provisions for that which are contained within the protocol. And that is where they got the US on board, which always offer to be a facilitator of those negotiations and an to be the honest broker between both interests.

Without any doubt, at some points those checks have to be done, as customs checks between two different customs areas are a basic WTO requirement, and of course, even more important for the EU, it has to protect its single market which does require regulatory checks and paperwork. The question remains when, and on which goods (do they move on to the ROI or not, how can that be tracked etc). And of course, there is the small point, that the whole mess has been initiated by the UK leaving the EU, not the other way round, and that the UK signed and ratified an international agreement requiring those checks at a certain point in time.

4468 11th Mar 2021 18:38

ATNotts

A lot of Brexiteers are going to be very disappointed when they wake up to the USA not riding to the UK's aid in the way they did in the two world wars of the 20th century.
I don’t recall the USA “riding to the rescue of the UK”? Certainly not in WW2 which ran from the first days of September 1939. As you will recall, in military terms the US remained neutral until a devastating attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbour on 7 December 1941. Almost fourteen months AFTER Battle of Britain Day when the Luftwaffe launched its heaviest bombing raids on London. Fighter Command successfully fought the attacking aircraft, resulting in heavy Luftwaffe losses. The threat of invasion of Britain ended then.

The allies subsequently joined forces to rid the World of the Nazis and free Europe from fascism. Sacrificing much of their youth in that endeavour.

But of course you knew that already.


I do hope any other comments you make/have made, can be a little more accurate.

As for the complex relationship between the UK the US and Ireland, I can say only this. It’s not that long ago I was in a bar in Washington DC when the NORAID collecting tin was stuck under my nose. NORAID being a significant funding vehicle for the IRA. There has never been any ‘warmth’ towards the UK from so called ‘Irish Americans’! That’s been true since the Boston Tea Party 250 years ago. And yet........

What REALLY binds the two nations together very powerfully, is closely aligned interests in global economics, politics defence and yes, trade. Undoubtedly there’ll be the odd hiccup along the way, but anyone thinking that dynamic will change significantly due to an elderly occupant of the White House or an even more elderly Speaker is frankly barking!

OilCan 11th Mar 2021 20:12

I'll just leave these here. :rolleyes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Atlantic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers-for-bases_deal - signed 2 Sept 1940 - fifteen months BEFORE Pearl Harbour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease - signed March 1941 - nine months BEFORE Pearl Harbour.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Squadrons - formed ??? 1940.

4468 11th Mar 2021 20:45

Your first three links are perfectly reasonable ‘lend/lease’ (in other words business) arrangements. Combined with an uptick in pre-existing trans Atlantic trade which both countries wished to protect. All to assist the containment of the Third Reich a ‘safe’ distance from the US.

No eagle squadron was operational until a number of months after the Battle of Britain. Which was the nazis first defeat and widely accepted as the event when plans to invade the UK were shelved by Germany. Spitfires and Hurricanes were not shipped across the Atlantic. They were designed and built in England. There were infinitely more Polish pilots than Americans!

Of course US GIs didn’t arrive in the UK until 1942, and then only in preparation for the allies invasion at the beaches of Normandy.

I’m not harking back to some ‘vainglorious past’ but nor am I willing to be lectured on how the US ‘rode to the rescue’ of the UK in WW2. Though their somewhat reluctant entry into the fray certainly assisted in ending the last attempt to unify Europe, freeing it’s citizens!

I’ll just leave these facts here.

OilCan 11th Mar 2021 21:50

Hitler 'postponed' his plans 'cause he was a bit busy on his other front. Meanwhile while waiting for Normandy;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Torch - Nov 42
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Sicily - July 43
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_invasion_of_Italy - Sept 43


Though their somewhat reluctant entry into the fray certainly assisted
Worth remembering at the peak in Europe we had about 10 UK, 2 Canadian and 70+ US Divisions against 60+ German Divisions. Meanwhile the Germans had another 200+ Divisions on their other front fighting the Russians.

I think they did more than assist.

ORAC 11th Mar 2021 21:56

UK implementing the same extension of relaxation of controls for imports to those from the EU into the UK as it has into NI from the rest of the UK...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/g...2022-ldc2klp03

Government delays EU food post-Brexit border checks until 2022

Food entering Britain from the European Union will not be subject to inspections until the start of next year, ministers announced today, amid fears that additional Brexit red tape could lead to shortages in the shops.

The government had been intending to impose comprehensive checks on meat, fish and dairy products entering the UK at the start of July, with a requirement to fill in export health certificates also due to start in April.

But in an about turn the Brexit minister Lord Frost today announced a six month delay to both new border controls following industry industry that European exporters were not ready to comply with the new rules.....

In a statement Frost blamed continuing Covid restrictions and disruption that had been “deeper” than expected.

“We know now that the disruption caused by COVID has lasted longer and has been deeper than we anticipated. As a sovereign trading nation outside the EU, we have freedom to take decisions in our national interest - and in the interest of our businesses,” he said.

“We will now introduce border controls broadly six months later than planned to give traders time to focus on getting back on their feet as the economy opens up after a difficult year.”

Under the revised timetable, pre-notification requirements for products of animal origin, certain animal by-products and high risk food not of animal origin will not be required until October 1 2021.

Customs import declarations will still be required, but the option to use the deferred declaration scheme has been extended to January 1 2022.

And from March 2022, checks at border control posts will take place on live animals and low-risk plants and plant products.

The move was welcomed by industry that suggested it could save up to £7bn this year in reduced bureaucracy.

“This will ultimately reduce the impact on consumers from the who might otherwise have seen empty shelves for some products,” said Andrew Opie, director of food and sustainability at the British Retail Consortium, said.....

Effluent Man 11th Mar 2021 22:42

All this merely underlines the inadequacy of the deal that was negotiated by Frosty the Nomark. He clearly didn't understand the implications of what he was signng up for, but nevertheless went ahead and put pen to paper. The Level of competency displayed over the Brexit deal makes one wonder whether they might have been better to just have put Grayling in charge.

4468 12th Mar 2021 10:02


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 11006862)
All this merely underlines the inadequacy of the deal that was negotiated by Frosty the Nomark. He clearly didn't understand the implications of what he was signng up for, but nevertheless went ahead and put pen to paper. The Level of competency displayed over the Brexit deal makes one wonder whether they might have been better to just have put Grayling in charge.

Or perhaps he was prepared to accept “the implications of what he was signing up for” in the full knowledge many features simply would not work and would have to be re-visited/delayed as catered for in the agreement.

Though I don’t suspect even he could have imagined the EU would have been the first to tear up the NI Protocol before the ink was even dry on the paper?


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