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Economics101 5th Mar 2021 09:04

LTNman: you say:

Clearly the EU and Ireland care little about the Good Friday Agreement, as that agreement is now breaking down while the U.K. is trying to keep it intact.
This is just about the most incredible piece of rubbish I have ever seen in this discussion.

LTNman 5th Mar 2021 09:04

Empty shelves should be focusing minds with the EU but it isn't and come April it would get much worse without intervention. With the Good Friday Agreement heading for collapse the question then becomes what does the EU and Ireland do about it? The focus of the NI protocol seemed to be to keep the IRA happy while ignoring the Loyalists and lets remember they are the majority. The rumblings of discontent are there so should not be ignored which is exactly what the EU is doing.


This is just about the most incredible piece of rubbish I have even seen in this discussion.
You have a short memory then haven't you.
https://www.thejournal.ie/coveney-ar...41380-Feb2021/

Also we can all see what is happening in NI and it is not looking good.

Economics101 5th Mar 2021 09:19

LTNman: I've been wondering about the empty shelves in Northern Ireland. Down here in the backward superstitious Republic of Southern Eire, there are just a few relatively minor problems (Tesco and M and S mainly). And we have the same or even more stringent policies on UK trade as NI does. Many of our own retailers are well prepared, and they have had just about the same notice to prepare as UK-based ones. Maybe NI retailers should import their EU-originating items direct via the dreaded Southern Eire and avoid the total cluster~~~k produced by the UK government.
If you think that the NI Protocol was just to keep the IRA happy, then think again. You seem to regard anyone in Ireland who is not a Loyalist as an IRA supporter. If you don't, then just be more careful with your choice of words.

ORAC 5th Mar 2021 09:45


There is an easy answer to that : Tubs and Frosty should have read the agreement before they signed it instead of being so desperate to Get Brexit Done
The Northern Ireland Protocol and Joint Committee predates the trade agreement signed in December and were agreed as part of the WA. They are independent of that agreement. If the EU Parliament did ever decide not to sign the trade agreement the Protocol, and committee negotiations will continue as an existing treaty between the UK and the EU.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...ings/cbp-9102/The Protocol

The Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland (the Protocol) is part of the WA which laid out the terms of the UK’s exit from the EU. It sets out the relationship Northern Ireland will have with both the EU and Great Britain (the rest of the UK) at the end of transition period on 31 December 2020. The Protocol will come into force regardless of whether the EU and UK agree a future relationship agreement or not......

LTNman 5th Mar 2021 09:50


Originally Posted by Economics101 (Post 11002295)
LTNman: I've been wondering about the empty shelves in Northern Ireland. Down here in the backward superstitious Republic of Southern Eire, there are just a few relatively minor problems (Tesco and M and S mainly). And we have the same or even more stringent policies on UK trade as NI does. Many of our own retailers are well prepared, and they have had just about the same notice to prepare as UK-based ones. Maybe NI retailers should import their EU-originating items direct via the dreaded Southern Eire and avoid the total cluster~~~k produced by the UK government.
If you think that the NI Protocol was just to keep the IRA happy, then think again. You seem to regard anyone in Ireland who is not a Loyalist as an IRA supporter. If you don't, then just be more careful with your choice of words.

That was not my intention to label anyone an IRA supporter. Regarding UK to NI trade, there is clearly an issue that a bit more time should hopeful resolve but no the EU has stuck its heals in and now risks the Good Friday Agreement and for what? I can't think why that would be, well I can actually.

TURIN 5th Mar 2021 10:02


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 11002254)
And the Loyalists will kick off big time, as they are now doing with their threats, as they have had enough. The EU and Ireland can see where this is going and don't care as they have little interest in the Good Friday Agreement despite the claims if it gets in the way of a united Ireland. The agreement was signed in 1998 and has kept the peace but all that will end if the EU doesn't change its mind set.


The UK needs an additional 6 months which seems reasonable if it means ironing out problems just like the MEP's requested and received an extension to the ratification process.


My Bold.

Why did no one see this coming?

Oh yes, they did but were shouted down by the knuckle dragging idiots who follow the weird nonsense of UKIP and Farage. Project Fear they bawled, time and again!

If this does lead to bloodshed then it's on their hands not the EU. YOU WON! Get over it!!!

Biggest folly since Suez!

God this makes me angry. To think we could be heading back to the awful days of daily murders and bombings just because someone wants a different coloured passport and isn't happy about fruit standards ! Idiots!:mad:

pug 5th Mar 2021 10:18


Originally Posted by TURIN (Post 11002341)
My Bold.

Why did no one see this coming?

Oh yes, they did but were shouted down by the knuckle dragging idiots who follow the weird nonsense of UKIP and Farage. Project Fear they bawled, time and again!

If this does lead to bloodshed then it's on their hands not the EU. YOU WON! Get over it!!!

Biggest folly since Suez!

God this makes me angry. To think we could be heading back to the awful days of daily murders and bombings just because someone wants a different coloured passport and isn't happy about fruit standards ! Idiots!:mad:

Im just as concerned about the militance displayed in LTNmans posts. I like to think that sort of rhetoric is in the minority..... Its almost as if some people are baiting conflict of one kind or another.

gsky 5th Mar 2021 10:21

Makes me angry too!
but Most people I know who voted leave did so not because of the silly reasons you said, passport/fruit etc", but
because they did not like the fundamental lack of democracy that exists in the EU.
As many have said there has to be goodwill on both sides and both sides have lacked this and whilst I know our democracy is far from perfect,and
our politicians are flawed , the recent evens and edicts from the EU ,unilateral statement from Ursula ref Irish border, Vaccine threats, now EU positions
on AZ vaccine to Australia, not to mention Key EU leaders bad mouthing the AZ vaccine (mainly for political reasons). All these point to a fundamental problem
with the EU ,its politics and politicians. They are frankly bullies . Ours are not much better but at least they are "ours" and unlike e.g Macron care for UK just as Macron cares for France, but as the French always have, (remember CDG) sought to minimise and undermine the UK position in Europe, and to strengthen the position of France within Europe
I had hoped the EU would work and be (more) democratic, but seeing what is happening now in many countries over the vaccine, they have serious problems,
mostly self inflicted.
This view is shared by many in Europe, not all of course, but we are not alone in thinking the politicians across La Manche , have got it wrong.

LTNman 5th Mar 2021 11:04


God this makes me angry. To think we could be heading back to the awful days of daily murders and bombings just because someone wants a different coloured passport and isn't happy about fruit standards ! Idiots!
Now you know that isn't true. Going back to the very beginning the UK signed up to a Common Market and not to be assimilated into an institution that is as democratic as China. For whatever reason when asked the question the UK as a whole decided they didn't want that, which many here will never get over and I accept.

The UK was the exception, as all the other referendums held in Europe including 2 in Ireland were either ignored or the people were made to vote again.

Spot the difference because all the power is held by unelected officials so are not accountable to any electorate.
https://i.imgur.com/PAshq6o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/voCicsD.jpg

gsky 5th Mar 2021 11:42


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 11002395)
Now you know that isn't true. Going back to the very beginning the UK signed up to a Common Market and not to be assimilated into an institution that is as democratic as China. For whatever reason when asked the question the UK as a whole decided they didn't want that, which many here will never get over and I accept.

The UK was the exception, as all the other referendums held in Europe including 2 in Ireland were either ignored or the people were made to vote again.

Spot the difference because all the power is held by unelected officials so are not accountable to any electorate.
https://i.imgur.com/PAshq6o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/voCicsD.jpg

YUP ! Correct.Goalposts moved time and time again.

Torquetalk 5th Mar 2021 11:47


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 11002395)
Now you know that isn't true. Going back to the very beginning the UK signed up to a Common Market and not to be assimilated into an institution that is as democratic as China. For whatever reason when asked the question the UK as a whole decided they didn't want that, which many here will never get over and I accept.

The UK was the exception, as all the other referendums held in Europe including 2 in Ireland were either ignored or the people were made to vote again.

Spot the difference because all the power is held by unelected officials so are not accountable to any electorate.
https://i.imgur.com/PAshq6o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/voCicsD.jpg

Of course you can make that ridiculous comparison. And continue to perpetuate a key falsehood. The fact that the UK left iaw a democratic and legal process flies in the face of such nonesense. Meanwhile in Taiwan, the electorate might fall to the floor and kick their legs incapacitated in laughter at such an absurd comparison.

LowNSlow 5th Mar 2021 12:08

Torquetalk; remind me again how Ursula VdL got elected again?
Was there a vote by the EU Heads of State? No.
Did the EU Heads of State each put forward their Spitzenkandidat? Yes
Was the President of the European Commission selected from the presented Spitzenkandidaten? No, they were swept aside and Ursula VdL was given the position because she was deemed incapable of becoming the German Chancellor due to completely screwing up the Bundeswehr, for example troops carrying broomsticks at a NATO exercise , 4 combat ready Eurofighters, no functional submarines, and had to be given something after years of service to Angela.

Democracy in action, not.

dead_pan 5th Mar 2021 12:25

LowNSlow - jeez this is soo boring. You won, get over it.

PS I'm still waiting for clear evidence of the benefits of us leaving. It all seems a bit of a shambles ATM.

PPS How did you vote in the referendum on the elevation of Evgeny Lebedev to the House of Lords?

ORAC 5th Mar 2021 12:36

An insight into the future.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...n-s-next-moves

Barnier and France fear Brexit Britain’s next moves


Denti 5th Mar 2021 12:39


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 11002428)
Torquetalk; remind me again how Ursula VdL got elected again?
Was there a vote by the EU Heads of State? No.
Did the EU Heads of State each put forward their Spitzenkandidat? Yes
Was the President of the European Commission selected from the presented Spitzenkandidaten? No, they were swept aside and Ursula VdL was given the position because she was deemed incapable of becoming the German Chancellor due to completely screwing up the Bundeswehr, for example troops carrying broomsticks at a NATO exercise , 4 combat ready Eurofighters, no functional submarines, and had to be given something after years of service to Angela.

Democracy in action, not.

There is a lot to criticize about VdL and her election, however, unlike Boris Johnson, she actually had to go through a confirmation hearing in Parliament and then pass a vote of it, as had every one of their commissioners, two of them having been rejected by Parliament, so it is by no means toothless there. Quite unlike the UK government which currently has 20 unelected ministers, meaning those that never got elected as MP nor by the HoC, like for example Lord Snowflake. And of course, the Commission being the civil service of the EU, the direkt comparison would be to the civil service in the UK, none of which ever had to face any kind of election, confirmation hearing or any kind of scrutiny by either parliament or the public. They just have to endure being bullied, but that is quite alright in british society anyway.

TURIN 5th Mar 2021 12:45


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 11002395)
Now you know that isn't true. Going back to the very beginning the UK signed up to a Common Market and not to be assimilated into an institution that is as democratic as China. For whatever reason when asked the question the UK as a whole decided they didn't want that, which many here will never get over and I accept.

The UK was the exception, as all the other referendums held in Europe including 2 in Ireland were either ignored or the people were made to vote again.

Spot the difference because all the power is held by unelected officials so are not accountable to any electorate.
https://i.imgur.com/PAshq6o.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/voCicsD.jpg

The very week of the referendum, BBC Question Time. farage, pulling his 'blue' passport from his jacket pocket and waving it around, claiming that this is what its all about. The woman in the audience claiming she didn't really understand the whole proces but, but bananas!!
It was enough to make you weep.

As for this photographic nonsense above, Last time I looked neither the UK civil service or the House of 'Lords' is elected. There is no difference.

grottyyottie 5th Mar 2021 12:45

Agree with LTNman who makes important points.
Thank goodness we got out from this cartel of unelected bullies. That they behave in the way they do, is no surprise to many of us.
Attitudes and behaviours, always so revealing.
We have a great future ahead of us. They have a formidable competitor a few miles away. You can smell the stink of their fear.
gy

Gargleblaster 5th Mar 2021 12:50

Yes, the EU is undemocratic, terrible and to be compared to the Chinese parliament (whatever that is called), if nothing else because there are some people clapping at something in both places.

Yet, it is the European Parliament that is threatening not to ratify the withdrawal agreement (the whole thing) by end of April, and those members are directly elected by real people in the EU countries. How's about that, after all these years of limbo and agony, no deal at all, after all ?

BTW, the Aussies, bless them, have said they understood very well that that Italy withheld the vaccine shipment, it wasn't scheduled anyways, and they were all good, no worries.

BTW again, it is a fact that there were irregularities around the AstraZeneca vaccine testing, and it is documented to be less effective than e.g. Pfizer's. Stating this is not a declaration of war on the UK, calm down for God's sake !

Torquetalk 5th Mar 2021 12:54


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 11002428)
Torquetalk; remind me again how Ursula VdL got elected again?
Was there a vote by the EU Heads of State? No.
Did the EU Heads of State each put forward their Spitzenkandidat? Yes
Was the President of the European Commission selected from the presented Spitzenkandidaten? No, they were swept aside and Ursula VdL was given the position because she was deemed incapable of becoming the German Chancellor due to completely screwing up the Bundeswehr, for example troops carrying broomsticks at a NATO exercise , 4 combat ready Eurofighters, no functional submarines, and had to be given something after years of service to Angela.

Democracy in action, not.

As I am sure you are aware, the Executive is not subject to nomination by heads of state on a one-person, one vote basis. Thank goodness. Otherwise the EU would be stuck with some truly batty nominations from political coalitions of knuckleheads like Orban, Johnson and Macron, to name just a few gobby prats. The nominations are, however, subject to approval by the EU Parliament, which is democratically elected. It even had a bunch of UKIP dickheads amongst its numbers, doing their level best to embarrass the nation with their manifest lack of knowledge and competence as they held forth on their mono mantra. Shall I repost the videos of how truly rubbish these people were? Democratically elected dickheads representing the nation.

As DP and Denti have said, the UK‘s own nomination process both in the HOC and, of course, the HOL falls a long way short of the process behind EU Commissioner nomination. But hey, at least that is our lack of accountability, so I guess that is okay.

Btw. I completely agree that VdL is crap. Can‘t wait to see the back of her.

TURIN 5th Mar 2021 12:56


Originally Posted by grottyyottie (Post 11002455)
Agree with LTNman who makes important points.
Thank goodness we got out from this cartel of unelected bullies. That they behave in the way they do, is no surprise to many of us.
Attitudes and behaviours, always so revealing.
We have a great future ahead of us. They have a formidable competitor a few miles away. You can smell the stink of their fear.
gy

I really can't tell if this is satire.


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