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LTNman 29th Jan 2021 19:15


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10978987)
complete BS. The EEC never decided as such. In the Netherlands we only have advising referenda. Having witnessed the shits-show that happened since the brexit referendum I am quite happy our referenda are not binding.

I personally would like to see a more Federal European Union on subjects as Defense, Foreign trade, Foreign Aid, Common border protection, Infrastructure et al. It is our politicians that do not want that. Personally I believe it is inevitable that it would happen eventually in this global world. That is btw not the same as a United States of Europe.

Understandable comments from a citizen of the Netherlands that he wishes to be assimilated into a collective with no real voice where decisions are made by unelected officials.

SaulGoodman 29th Jan 2021 19:18


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 10979041)
Saul Goodman, it isn't BS it's historical fact. If you chose to disagree with history that's entirely up to you. Unless the Federalisation happens in the next 30 years, which is unlikely I think, I won't be around to see it thankfully.

I don't think you can cherry pick which bits are Federalised, you might appear to have done that but then, when you turn around, you will realise that your country is a subservient state to the overarching Union. Good luck, I wish you well in your ventures.

You quoted that the EEC decided that referenda are a bad idea. I called that BS! It is the national government that chose to have non-binding referenda.

I do agree with you that further federalization will most likely not happen to that level in 30 years. That would not go down with a large part of the population.

However, the Euro/Corona bonds and the associated conditions are a step towards the right direction.

SaulGoodman 29th Jan 2021 19:23


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10979057)
Understandable comments from a citizen of the Netherlands that he wishes to be assimilated into a collective with no real voice where decisions are made by unelected officials.

unelected officials - house of lords?

LTNman 29th Jan 2021 19:25


Originally Posted by Denti (Post 10979035)
This.

Apparently the vaccine issue is seen in the UK as a brexit issue. It is not seen in that light in the EU at all. Rather as a contractual squibble, medicine and vaccine nationalism by the UK (remember, they blocked the export of over 100 medicines used in treating covid last week already) and questionable practices by a supplier. However, Brexit does not enter into that discussion in the EU, it does in regards to border problems, increased or decreased prices on products (fish for example) and problems for the haulage industry. What is true however, is the simple fact that the UK is seen as what it is: a third country. Nothing more, nothing less.

What are you talking about are you mad? The EU are making it a Brexit issue while the U.K. government is trying to keep out of it.


From the BBC



Meanwhile, EU Justice Commissioner Didier Reynders has warned of a "vaccine war".

Speaking on Belgian radio, he said: "The EU Commission has pushed to co-ordinate the vaccines contracts on behalf of the 27 precisely to avoid a vaccines war between EU countries, but maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war?

"Solidarity is an important principle of the EU. With Brexit, it's clear that the UK doesn't want to show solidarity with anyone."



LTNman 29th Jan 2021 19:28


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10979063)
unelected officials - house of lords?

Well that is true but they can be put in their place if needed.

Central Scrutinizer 29th Jan 2021 19:28


Originally Posted by Ancient Observer (Post 10978974)
It was a very serious mistake to base the EU in Belgium.
In the end I voted Remain.

Couldn’t agree more. Belgium is a little evil no-country with an inferiority complex. Nothing good ever came from there (other than perhaps beer).

SaulGoodman 29th Jan 2021 19:41


Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer (Post 10979070)
Couldn’t agree more. Belgium is a little evil no-country with an inferiority complex. Nothing good ever came from there (other than perhaps beer).

You forgot chocolate and Goede Liekens.

SaulGoodman 29th Jan 2021 19:51


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10979069)
Well that is true but they can be put in their place if needed.

that may be but I think this explanation sums up the democratic values of both the EU and the UK.

LowNSlow 29th Jan 2021 19:53

and Grobbendonk

Nige321 29th Jan 2021 20:02


Quote:
Originally Posted by Denti View Post
This.

Apparently the vaccine issue is seen in the UK as a brexit issue. It is not seen in that light in the EU at all. Rather as a contractual squibble, medicine and vaccine nationalism by the UK (remember, they blocked the export of over 100 medicines used in treating covid last week already) and questionable practices by a supplier. However, Brexit does not enter into that discussion in the EU, it does in regards to border problems, increased or decreased prices on products (fish for example) and problems for the haulage industry. What is true however, is the simple fact that the UK is seen as what it is: a third country. Nothing more, nothing less.
What are you talking about are you mad? The EU are making it a Brexit issue while the U.K. government is trying to keep out of it.


From the BBC

Quote:
Meanwhile, EU Justice Commissioner Didier Reynders has warned of a "vaccine war".

Speaking on Belgian radio, he said: "The EU Commission has pushed to co-ordinate the vaccines contracts on behalf of the 27 precisely to avoid a vaccines war between EU countries, but maybe the UK wants to start a vaccine war?

"Solidarity is an important principle of the EU. With Brexit, it's clear that the UK doesn't want to show solidarity with anyone."

So solid that Germany has done a side deal with Phizer for a supply of vaccine to ensure their citizens jump to the front of the queue... :yuk:

VP959 29th Jan 2021 20:19


Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer (Post 10979070)
Couldn’t agree more. Belgium is a little evil no-country with an inferiority complex. Nothing good ever came from there (other than perhaps beer).

Belgium also has the unenviable history of genocide. Check out the history of King Leopold and the Congolese massacres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atroci...ngo_Free_State

yellowtriumph 29th Jan 2021 20:28


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10979079)
You forgot chocolate and Goede Liekens.


.. and the Smurfs, but whether that's a good thing or not is debatable.

Cornish Jack 29th Jan 2021 20:32

As ever, lots of heat and not much light, save for some telling personal viewpoints indicating unbending 'dyed-in-the-wool' attitudes ... "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made my mind up" - possibly not the most thoughtful approach to a demonstrable problem area, which, far from being 'done and dusted', will continue to bedevil UK politics for many years to come.
Observations such as "a collective with no real voice where decisions are made by unelected officials." would, perhaps, come better from a country where the citizens' votes were reflected in the Government and the system which modifies the process wasn't under the control of an unelected body !! Centuries of hierarchical control and well-honed hypocrisy are difficult to overcome.

SaulGoodman 29th Jan 2021 20:39


Originally Posted by VP959 (Post 10979099)
Belgium also has the unenviable history of genocide. Check out the history of King Leopold and the Congolese massacres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atroci...ngo_Free_State

yes and around 20 million Indians died of starvation while wheat was exported to the UK while India was under British rule. Btw, did you realize the Germans killed a few Jews and also the Russians did not really deserve the nobel peace prize?

let he who is without sin cast the first stone...

VP959 29th Jan 2021 20:43


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10979107)
yes and around 20 million Indians died of starvation while wheat was exported to the UK while India was under British rule. Btw, did you realize the Germans killed a few Jews and also the Russians did not really deserve the nobel peace prize?

let he who is without sin cast the first stone...


Yes, I did realise those facts, but the point was that it was specifically Belgium being discussed, not the UK, India, the British Empire's various atrocities, the Holocaust or the Russians, or any other state come to that, so why the deflection?

SaulGoodman 29th Jan 2021 20:47


Originally Posted by VP959 (Post 10979109)
Yes, I did realise those facts, but the point was that it was specifically Belgium being discussed, not the UK, India, the British Empire's various atrocities, the Holocaust or the Russians, or any other state come to that, so why the deflection?

because I thought the atrocities in the congo are completely irrelevant. As are my examples.

VP959 29th Jan 2021 20:57


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 10979113)
because I thought the atrocities in the congo are completely irrelevant. As are my examples.

So just a bit of classic "whataboutery" deflection from the previous posts content, then?

LTNman 29th Jan 2021 21:18

Today 443,985 reasons why the EU has the needle except they don’t.

Seems they are having second thoughts about Northern Ireland

ORAC 29th Jan 2021 21:23

The Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/heal...tain-1.4471366

Anger as EU moves to halt Northern Ireland being used as vaccine backdoor to Britain

The Taoiseach has spoken to the European Commission’s president to express his concerns over EU plans to block the supply of Covid-19 vaccinations into Northern Ireland.

Micheál Martin has spoken directly to Ursula von der Leyen over the use of the highly politically sensitive Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol.

A Government source described deep unhappiness in Government Buildings over the move, describing it as “completely unnecessary” with the potential for “explosive political implications”.....

SWBKCB 29th Jan 2021 21:25


Originally Posted by VP959 (Post 10979121)
So just a bit of classic "whataboutery" deflection from the previous posts content, then?

What? Who made the nasty little irrelevant reference to Belgiums imperial past in the first place? :rolleyes:


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