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-   -   BREXIT (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/619673-brexit.html)

Krystal n chips 10th Apr 2019 06:14

With Treeza happily wracking up the Air miles, might come in useful when she's finally evicted, here's her current soundtrack to enjoy on her travels......ironically, the composer was...French.

Plus, a minor detail, if we do get to participate in the EU elections, apparently this is going to cost £100m + to squeeze out of the piggy bank, or some Dept or others budget of course. Maybe she could ask Arlene for a loan ?.. there must be some left from the bung earlier assuming the DUP haven't splurged the lot on new regalia, repainting the kerbstones red white and blue.....and ordering prime timber for Sandy Row later in the year.


Grayfly 10th Apr 2019 07:46


Originally Posted by pug (Post 10443711)



To those in their 60’s, who benefitted from the unique post war economic boom and are in a position to retire comfortably (if you haven’t already); can you please put your nostalgi-rose tinted glasses further down your noses and perhaps look over them towards the younger generation you will be leaving behind? After all, they are to be the ones that will be left to clean up this mess.

I hate to spoil a perfectly good rant, however, I am in my late 60's as are most of my circle of close friends and associates. Of the twenty or so of those, only three voted for Brexit and I wasn't one of them. As for the younger generation, one of those in my family voted to leave. It does get rather heated when we discuss the issues.

None of it makes any sense and I am now coming to the belief that it's not about the economy, migration, control, borders etc. It's about how your brain is wired and how you see your world. Nobody else can see that view. It doesn't help that the country is run by idiots who couldn't find any other job.

The Nip 10th Apr 2019 07:50


Originally Posted by pug (Post 10443711)


Ive long been of the opinion that the reason many MPís lobbied for remain (badly) was because they know a hell of a lot more than the average person on the street about the U.K. membership of the EU.

What is it that MPs know that the rest of us don't? What information is given to MPs that isn't given to the press etc?
Did you see Ken Clarke try to explain the rules of a CU to Andrew Neill? It was on his show last week. Clarke, who wants a CU, had no idea of the legal position in regards to the UK signing up.

ATNotts 10th Apr 2019 07:59


Originally Posted by The Nip (Post 10443949)


What is it that MPs know that the rest of us don't? What information is given to MPs that isn't given to the press etc?
Did you see Ken Clarke try to explain the rules of a CU to Andrew Neill? It was on his show last week. Clarke, who wants a CU, had no idea of the legal position in regards to the UK signing up.

A lot of information is available to the press; however the UK press, by and large has an agenda, which doesn't include even handed reporting of the EU and Europe in general. We, the public, if we rely solely on the UK print and broadcast media get less than half the story, and what we get is by and large thoroughly unreliable.

parabellum 10th Apr 2019 08:39


If any Brit thinks theyíll be negotiating strong trade deals in their favour with other countries theyíve got rocks in their heads. If I was a third country trade minister Iíd be salivating at negotiating an agreement with the wounded, divided UK at the moment.
I think you will discover that the provisional post Brexit trade deals already negotiated by Canada, Australia and New Zealand with the UK won't support your argument. Personally I doubt if Germany are ready to sacrifice the profitability of their share of the up market car and small commercial vehicle markets just to satisfy the EU, which is why the EU are very nervous about Brexit, it could be the beginning of the end for them, no more trough.

wiggy 10th Apr 2019 08:53


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10443993)
Personally I doubt if Germany are ready to sacrifice the profitability of their share of the up market car and small commercial vehicle markets just to satisfy the EU.

According to some frequently and loudly expressed POVs the likes of BMW were supposed to have ridden to rescue of the UK several weeks ago.....are they/you really still clinging to that hope?

Krystal n chips 10th Apr 2019 08:55


Originally Posted by parabellum (Post 10443993)
I think you will discover that the provisional post Brexit trade deals already negotiated by Canada, Australia and New Zealand with the UK won't support your argument. Personally I doubt if Germany are ready to sacrifice the profitability of their share of the up market car and small commercial vehicle markets just to satisfy the EU, which is why the EU are very nervous about Brexit, it could be the beginning of the end for them, no more trough.

About your fantasy above.....

This may, sadly, not quite be the case...... as this article kindly explains.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

wiggy 10th Apr 2019 09:41

https://www.liberation.fr/planete/20...anente_1720374


French language (left wing) newspaper POV...to paraphrase the thrust of the piece: Since the UK joined British politicians have always wanted to have selective exceptions to the EU rule set (as in the various ops outs, which were the envy of many in the EU), now it's leaving it appears some British politicians think it is reasonable to "opt out" of the EU in the manner they wish, whilst perhaps trying to remain "opted in" in some areas.

As they say down here..."boff"

:ugh:

Sallyann1234 10th Apr 2019 09:46

That's a pretty accurate description.

ATNotts 10th Apr 2019 10:24


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10444051)
That's a pretty accurate description.

The words cake, eat it, picking and cherry come to mind. Labour's shopping list appears to totally disregard the facts that if your in the (or a) customs union and have the same benefits as we had when we were in the club, we have to accept the less tasteful bits as a quid pro quo. Mrs. May with her exit deal appears to have managed to get the odd of crumb of cake in her exit deal, insofar as she has got back effective control of our borders (stopping free movement) during the transition period when we are apparently to adhere to all the rules of the EU. A masterstroke by her and the UK negotiators and one that the extreme Brexiteers, and the Eurosceptic press conveniently gloss over.

pug 10th Apr 2019 17:53


Originally Posted by Grayfly (Post 10443944)
I hate to spoil a perfectly good rant, however, I am in my late 60's as are most of my circle of close friends and associates. Of the twenty or so of those, only three voted for Brexit and I wasn't one of them. As for the younger generation, one of those in my family voted to leave. It does get rather heated when we discuss the issues.

None of it makes any sense and I am now coming to the belief that it's not about the economy, migration, control, borders etc. It's about how your brain is wired and how you see your world. Nobody else can see that view. It doesn't help that the country is run by idiots who couldn't find any other job.

Please donít take my ranting to be the generalisation it may have appeared to be. I was referring indirectly to some of the posters on this thread.

The ugly issue at hand is people are supporting beliefs over and above facts. Unfortunately the lies about the Lisbon Treaty as an example, play directly into the hands of people who have little will or inclination to do their own research. It has almost become something of a religious connotation. A hollow victory for the disenfranchised perhaps, but itís what you get for giving people a vote on something that evidently general public know little about

G0ULI 10th Apr 2019 18:38

Alternatively, it is a subject the public know a great deal about. The public are determined to stop a small privileged group of wealthy people from keeping their snouts in the EU trough to the detriment of the vast majority. Can it possibly be the case that the beleavers are actually more clued up than the remoaners? The "wisdom of crowds" theory certainly suggests that this is the case.

You can fool some of the people, etc...

Time to leave. Day after tomorrow will do nicely.

WingNut60 11th Apr 2019 00:35

From CNN just moments ago


Tusk warns UK not to waste time

EU Council President Donald Tusk urges the UK, "please do not waste this time."
Speaking after announcing an agreed extension until October 2019, Tusk says the "course of action will be entirely in the UK's hands.""I think it's always better to have a piece of something than a lot of nothing," Tusk adds in response to a question about whether enough progress can be achieved in six months. He adds that he is hopeful that a breakthrough can occur in that time.The review in June is "only to update us on the progress" regarding the ratification process. "June is not for decision about extension," he adds. "My intention is not to discuss but only to inform he member states about the current situation.""It's not a negotiation session," Juncker adds.


pug 11th Apr 2019 06:31


Originally Posted by G0ULI (Post 10444459)
Alternatively, it is a subject the public know a great deal about. The public are determined to stop a small privileged group of wealthy people from keeping their snouts in the EU trough to the detriment of the vast majority. Can it possibly be the case that the beleavers are actually more clued up than the remoaners? The "wisdom of crowds" theory certainly suggests that this is the case.

You can fool some of the people, etc...

Time to leave. Day after tomorrow will do nicely.

Im afraid the evidence is proving the exact opposite actually.

CW247 11th Apr 2019 06:48

EASA ATPL licensing question
 
Now that we know we are not leaving without a deal until October 2019 end. As far as an airline should be concerned, I have 6 months to convert my license right? In the event of a deal based Brexit prior to this, the so-called "transition period" of 2 years will allow my UK license to remain an EASA license for a little longer anyway. Is this how EASA views it? Or is the predicament the same even in a deal based Brexit?


Exrigger 11th Apr 2019 06:53


Originally Posted by pug (Post 10444805)
I'm afraid the evidence is proving the exact opposite actually.

Corrected that for you and would be interested to see links to this evidence, or is it actually more remain opinion that they still claim to be better than their peers on the exit side. It would be appreciated if any link provided did not contain might/could/it is possible/my opinion is this will happen/ and is current.

wiggy 11th Apr 2019 07:12


Originally Posted by CW247 (Post 10444818)
Now that we know we are not leaving without a deal until October 2019 end. As far as an airline should be concerned, I have 6 months to convert my license right? In the event of a deal based Brexit prior to this, the so-called "transition period" of 2 years will allow my UK license to remain an EASA license for a little longer anyway. Is this how EASA views it? Or is the predicament the same even in a deal based Brexit?

IMHO you are in the wrong bit of the forum for an answer to that, this area is for off duty argument. In this place you will get useful answers to your question such as:

" Nothing to worry your head about, EU and EASA will blink",

"The UK Empire Class Flying Boats were wonderful and much better than anything produced by the Germans/French/Italians at Airbus"

and

" UK licences were tough, strong, and of the right colour until those nasty people in Europe interfered......"

I suspect for an authorative(ish) answer to your query you would be better off asking on one of the more techy bits of the forum, such as:

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/...s-invalid.html

In all seriousness, Good Luck.

Grayfly 11th Apr 2019 07:15


Originally Posted by G0ULI (Post 10444459)
Alternatively, it is a subject the public know a great deal about. The public are determined to stop a small privileged group of wealthy people from keeping their snouts in the EU trough to the detriment of the vast majority.

In or out of the EU will not stop privileged wealthy people having their snouts in some trough somewhere, that's the human condition.

Steepclimb 11th Apr 2019 07:39


Originally Posted by Exrigger (Post 10444822)
Corrected that for you and would be interested to see links to this evidence, or is it actually more remain opinion that they still claim to be better than their peers on the exit side. It would be appreciated if any link provided did not contain might/could/it is possible/my opinion is this will happen/ and is current.

He doesn't need to. The onus is on the Brexiteers to prove the benefits of leaving which they have signally failed to do. Indeed many fully accept that initially the benefits would 'down the road somewhere'.
In any case arguing economic issues with leavers is pointless. Brexit was always about ideology not business. It was about an engineered fear of immigration. It was about the perception driven by fake news and the likes of Boris Johnson that the EU was out to get Britain and finally it was about nostalgia.

That's why no agreement was reached or can be reached that satisfies everyone.

Idealogues can never moved from the position even when their fantasies turn to dust. They just dig their trenches deeper to use one of wartime analogies beloved of the leavers.

Harley Quinn 11th Apr 2019 07:49


Originally Posted by Steepclimb (Post 10444853)
He doesn't need to. The onus is on the Brexiteers to prove the benefits of leaving which they have signally failed to do. Indeed many fully accept that initially the benefits would 'down the road somewhere'.
In any case arguing economic issues with leavers is pointless. Brexit was always about ideology not business. It was about an engineered fear of immigration. It was about the perception driven by fake news and the likes of Boris Johnson that the EU was out to get Britain and finally it was about nostalgia.

That's why no agreement was reached or can be reached that satisfies everyone.

Idealogues can never moved from the position even when their fantasies turn to dust. They just dig their trenches deeper to use one of wartime analogies beloved of the leavers.

No, I think you're missing the point here; the remain faction and campaign dismally failed to persuade a majority of the turnout that the EU provided advantages that could not be replicated or bettered outside. This, despite the government's propaganda machine, the Governor of BoE, POTUS, CBI and many others did not prove sufficient to swing the vote.
So why did the remain campaign fail?
Was it really the Russians and manipulation of social media?
Or is it that a lot of people believe the EU is going in the wrong direction?


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