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ORAC 20th Oct 2019 06:34

Adding to the above, it iras mentioned on last nightís Brexitcast, that the Cabinet has had legal advise that, legally, all that is required to leave the EU is to pass the significant vote. The other legislation is not necessary.

I believe this is similar to when they had to change the date in the EU Withdrawal Act after the last extension - it was needed to tidy up UK law, but not required to actual extend. Similarly the additional acts are required to tidy up UK law, but legally we will leave the EU on the 31st and enter the transition period under EU law.

Which makes the vote on Tuesday even more significant if it takes place - or another prorogue and vote on the 30/31st even more of a cliff-hanger.

clareprop 20th Oct 2019 06:46

I would have thought the most important indicator will be how the EU acts in the next day or so. If they grant an extension then all the backslapping of BoJo earlier in the week in Brussels will be shown for what it was....just checking out where best to stick their knives.

Mr Mac 20th Oct 2019 06:47

Nutlose
Well I was in London in that demonstration (the first cause I have ever felt that strongly about) along with Mrs Mac who came down from Yorkshire as well. We were both firm Tory voters of many years, but the Tory party I supported was not this one (and until it changes I will not be voting for them again ever), with these ideas or attitudes. If this deal is so good put it to a referendum, as after all this time the UK public have no excuse for not knowing the home truths of what is happening in the UK regards Brexit, so let them chose. If they still vote to leave then so be it, I do not think any Remain supporters would have an issue with that, but this carping on about the "will of the people" is stupid. Go for a second referendum, let the people chose, and then get on with what ever the result is, but it seems that the Brexit supporters do not feel confident in their arguments, or deal to let that happen. It was quite interesting as to the types of people I came across in that demo, it will be also be equally interesting to see who is in Manchester today for the Brexit march, as I am having lunch in the city today before flying back to Germany, so may take a peek at " the people".
Regards
Mr Mac

Krystal n chips 20th Oct 2019 07:01


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10598692)
Because Johnson is working to bring about a departure in accordance with the wishes of the electorate, Corbyn isn't.


That's a bit, well more than a bit,, naÔve really. Boris is working to bring about fame and glory for Boris along with an enduring legacy, central to which is...... Boris plus he's got visions of an extended stay in a central London "des res " gated community.

It appears there were no less than three letters involved.....which is one more than his two speeches prepared for the referendum result. One not signed and the term used by Anna Soubry sums him up perfectly.

Then there's the bit about our "friends and neighbours " and historical links on the Continent ......the UK's so friendly we've embarked on the equivalent of planting confers and erecting a brick wall with the neighbours.

Note the bit at the end however.....the use of legislation. When all else fails, or rather when opposition needs to be crushed and thereafter controlled, the Tories have never been averse to using legislation to get their own way. They did the same when it came to negating the legitimate right to strike so nothing new there.

And Treeza made a little quip in the House !...first time she's ever displayed this ability, when she said "I have a sense of deja vu "......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50112924

wiggy 20th Oct 2019 07:13


Originally Posted by clareprop (Post 10598859)
I would have thought the most important indicator will be how the EU acts in the next day or so. If they grant an extension then all the backslapping of BoJo earlier in the week in Brussels will be shown for what it was....just checking out where best to stick their knives.

Sorry you have lost me with that - are you saying if "the EU" grant an extension they will be sticking the knife into Boris?

I assume if they don't grant an extension they'll be accused of kicking the UK out?






ORAC 20th Oct 2019 07:56

Listening to the news the “mood music” from Brussels is that the EU is going to sit on the letter and not make a decision on an extension until around the 29-31st and, in the meantime, support Boris’ efforts to get the deal passed.

Under the Benn Act they can also, of course, lay down conditions if they do provide an extension which the PM is obliged to accept - which could mean offering a 3 month extension on the condition a general election is called upon acceptance of the extension.....

bulldog89 20th Oct 2019 07:58


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10598670)
It is reported on our news the first was unsigned the second asking for no extension was signed.

Are you serious?

KelvinD 20th Oct 2019 08:10

bulldog: He is serious! It totally exposes the duplicity of the man (Johnson).
You can read them here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50114538

wiggy 20th Oct 2019 08:34

Rumour is doing the rounds that there is going to be a fourth letter sent to Brussels later today in which Stanley Johnson is going to complain about the amount his son is being bullied...

Sallyann1234 20th Oct 2019 08:42


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 10598899)
bulldog: He is serious! It totally exposes the duplicity of the man (Johnson).
You can read them here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50114538

Sending an unsigned letter. How childish!
It makes Britain a laughing stock in the EU, and across the world.

It's quite clear that Boris is heading for what he and the ERG have always wanted - a hard Brexit.

Krystal n chips 20th Oct 2019 08:54

And just to add to the momentum, enter that nice Mr Gove with his emphatic and unequivocal statement.......the personal agenda behind this statement will doubtless emerge shortly......

wiggy 20th Oct 2019 10:37

From Andrew Rawnsley today:


To further ratchet up the pressure, the government staged the crackling drama of an “emergency” Saturday sitting of parliament, the first time that MPs had met at the weekend for nearly 40 years. This meant that everyone had an absurdly limited amount of time to get their heads around the latest tortuous iteration of Brexit. Concluding yesterday’s debate on behalf of the government, Michael Gove declared: “Our democracy is precious and this parliament is a special place.” They had a funny way of showing this supposed reverence for democracy and parliament. MPs were being asked to make a decision with huge consequences less than 48 hours after the deal had been unveiled. Were you able to conduct a confidential survey, guaranteeing to parliamentarians that their responses would remain anonymous, it is my strong suspicion that well under half of them have actually read the legal text and the rewritten political declaration. The government’s desperation to stampede parliament into signing off on the deal was further illustrated by its point-blank refusal to publish any analysis of its economic impact.

These tactics ultimately backfired. There was too much resistance to the attempt to bounce MPs into agreement. The debate was peppered with complaints that a prime minister who couldn’t be trusted was seeking a blank cheque from a parliament being kept in the dark. Justine Greening, the former Tory cabinet minister, tellingly complained that this was like being asked to buy a house without being allowed to see it.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-his-own-fault

But I suppose it would be better now if we just "get it done"....:ugh:

Krystal n chips 20th Oct 2019 10:53

Would now be a good time to mention the less than stalwart efforts of the original negotiation team " easiest deal in history " for example, and their subsequent deafening silence plus, for politicians, a marked reluctance to subsequently offer their own self promoting publicity in respect of Brexit .........

Alsacienne 20th Oct 2019 11:01

Another moment of shame and embarrassment for Brits living abroad. :ugh:

Pontius Navigator 20th Oct 2019 11:21

Outside Parliament we have the spectacle of angry remainers insisting on a Peoples' vote. In JB we have ardent remainers insisting that more of us now would vote remain, but are these really just the vociferous minority?

What of the silent majority? Not the 17.4m who voted leave but the 33m who are not the vociferous?

Would all the previous remainers vote again the remain or would they switch and vote to support the previous democratic majority? (standing by for Cornish and Chips predictable response)

Alsacienne 20th Oct 2019 11:43


What of the silent majority? Not the 17.4m who voted leave but the 33m who are not the vociferous?
.... AND those of us who support and continue to support the UK economy but have been living in the EU for over the last 15 years who are having our future decided for us because we are denied the right to vote.

pax britanica 20th Oct 2019 11:46

Indeed what are Boris' approval ratings-probably 100% for in the Express and 100% against in the Guardian
The Telegraph will use what number he tells them too.

Something like 80% of Britains print media is pro Brexit which is wildly different from the referendum result.
The referendum of course was

1 Advisory
2 Corrupt as declared by the Electoral Commission who did not take action because it was only advisory.

And of the 17 M who voted for how many are now
dead,
got dementia,
Out of work because of Brexit,
Changed their minds like the farmers who now realize what American GM Mega scale agriculture will do to our quaint little fields
Wonder what taking back control and giving to lying deceitful dishonest bullies like Boris who was willing to deceive the Queen is really a good idea
Voted for 'the easiest deal in history -to get a trade deal with EU
Realize that the government are going to have to give the EU billions in Compensation
Realize the government is on course to bankrupt the country by increasing borrowing by the largest amount in 50 years
Understand there are really no new trade deals worth having as the Eu has the pretty much all locked up leaving us with National League One status when we were top of the Premier league

And so on and so on Just why do we do this -can someone remind me, the only beneficiaries are Russia, the USA, shady City traders who have the chance to short sell a whole economy and other shady City folk who want the UK to remain the world largest money laundering centre via its former colonies

IcePack 20th Oct 2019 12:14

Passenger Brit. I for one just happen to disagree with you as do plenty of others. But I do wonder why Remainers & Brexiteers do not set out their stalls indicating why it is good to remain or why it is good to leave. As for Labour wanting to join a customs union meaning we remain within the EU but with NO voting rights baffles me completely.

Filler Dent 20th Oct 2019 12:34

Sorry, but I've changed my vote, if it ever comes to it - and it would be to leave now.
I'm not alone either.

Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of the relentless twaddle fanatical remainers keep spouting.
Lets remember that the majority of voters - voted to leave.
I accept that decision, as surprised and disappointed as I was at the time, the embarrassment and bumbling of our representatives in parliament is quite frankly astounding.
They voted to enact article 50! Now look - [email protected] every single one of them.

DaveReidUK 20th Oct 2019 12:35


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10598919)
Sending an unsigned letter. How childish!
It makes Britain a laughing stock in the EU, and across the world.



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