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WingNut60 17th Oct 2019 14:06


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10596222)


Because it prevents fraud as you can link voters to individual forms, that way you couldn't have unscrupulous people slipping multiple forms into the box or in the system later, they are all accounted for.
I don't know how it works, but I suppose if there is a doubt they could scan the numbers and also check for multiples or blanks.

Or you could just print their names on the ballot paper.

charliegolf 17th Oct 2019 14:09


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10596760)
Or you could just print their names on the ballot paper.

I think we should have a secret ballot. Oh wait...

CG

Opinion: No postal votes, and proof of id to vote.

ORAC 17th Oct 2019 14:31


ORAC 17th Oct 2019 14:35

Guido Fawkes:

Jacob Rees-Mogg has announced that on Saturday’s sitting, MPs will be presented with a single motion, presenting a choice between Boris’s new negotiated deal and no deal. This will be entirely compliant with the provisions of the Benn Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal. Genius in its simplicity…

charliegolf 17th Oct 2019 14:52

That's not all they will be presented with.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...NGllQhoTn6kPvU

LowNSlow 17th Oct 2019 14:55

with thank to wiggy for the link; As long as this: "the United Kingdom shall seek democratic consent in Northern Ireland in a manner consistent with the 1998 agreement" ie; a vote in Stormont, is part of the deal then the DUP is highly unlikely to support the Boris Johnson amendment to the May deal which is what it is as per the very first lines of the document:

Subject: Revised texts agreed at negotiators’ level for: - The Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland included in the Withdrawal Agreement and the consequential technical adaptations to Article 184 “Negotiations on the future relationship” and Article 185 “Entry into force and application” of the Agreement on the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the European Union and the European Atomic Energy Community (“Withdrawal Agreement”).
These revised texts are: - Intended to replace the corresponding provisions included in the last version of the Withdrawal Agreement published in OJ C144 I of 25.4.2019;

Just a spotter 17th Oct 2019 14:59


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10596783)
Guido Fawkes:

Jacob Rees-Mogg has announced that on Saturday’s sitting, MPs will be presented with a single motion, presenting a choice between Boris’s new negotiated deal and no deal. This will be entirely compliant with the provisions of the Benn Act, as by voting against the deal MPs would have given consent to leaving on the 31st without a deal. Genius in its simplicity…

One can't help but wonder if all the talk in Brussels was little more than a ruse developed after the The European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019/Benn Act/Surrender Act closed off the direct route to a no-deal exit.

The presentation of two unpalatable options to Parliament, one of which (no-deal) is the expressed preference of a cohort of hard-core Brexiteers (and a large number of Tories looking over their shoulders at the Brexit Party in their seats), might just have the votes to get through. Could it be that the DUP, rather than being awkward, are playing a pre-agreed role?

JAS


NutLoose 17th Oct 2019 15:03

Never fear we now have the...... :ugh:

Legal bid at Court of Session to stop MPs passing 'illegal' Brexit deal
Anti-Brexit campaigners have launched a legal bid to stop the UK government from passing its proposed EU withdrawal agreement.


They believe it contravenes legislation preventing Northern Ireland forming part of a separate customs territory to Great Britain.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50076186

Fitter2 17th Oct 2019 15:13

If I understand it, the latest Letwin amendment is to force the UK Government (whoever they may at the time be) to hold a second referendum. According to Juncker (and the Luxembourg PM) there will be no further extention, so by 1st November UK is out of the EU, either with a deal if Westminster pass Boris' deal, or no deal if they reject it. So what will the question be - do we accept UK will remain outside, or apply to re-enter? A massive majority of the Commons voted to trigger Article 50, so it looks like we are out on Nov 1. I cannot see any value in Ref2.

Fitter2 17th Oct 2019 15:16


Legal bid at Court of Session to stop MPs passing 'illegal' Brexit deal
Anti-Brexit campaigners have launched a legal bid to stop the UK government from passing its proposed EU withdrawal agreement.
Surely it isn't illegal if the Commons pass it, that's where the law is made. The Courts can (apparently) rule a Government action illegal, but they don't yet make the law, Parliament does.

NutLoose 17th Oct 2019 15:18

Yup.... a case of but we don't want to leave yet, let us back in for a bit or i'll tell my mum type tantrum.

But it would then force the Government to change the law first pertaining to Ireland to allow it to be voted on so in effect scuppering the plan?, but as EU PLC has said no extension, its all a bit pointless, one side in an argument cannot really wave the Benn act at Europe that has no legal binding with the EU, if Europe has already said goodbye on the 31st.

bulldog89 17th Oct 2019 15:35


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10596821)
Yup.... a case of but we don't want to leave yet, let us back in for a bit or i'll tell my mum type tantrum.

But it would then force the Government to change the law first pertaining to Ireland to allow it to be voted on so in effect scuppering the plan?, but as EU PLC has said no extension, its all a bit pointless, one side in an argument cannot really wave the Benn act at Europe that has no legal binding with the EU, if Europe has already said goodbye on the 31st.

You're right.
Some UK politicians are fighting a battle to gain domestic votes, but keep forgetting that UK laws are not binding for the EU. So when enough is enough (and I personally think now IT IS enough) they'll be out of the EU with or without their consent.

I really hope Juncker's statement is a real promise and not another negotiating move. It's time to end this poor show and move on with our lives.

yellowtriumph 17th Oct 2019 15:49


Originally Posted by bulldog89 (Post 10596831)


You're right.
Some UK politicians are fighting a battle to gain domestic votes, but keep forgetting that UK laws are not binding for the EU. So when enough is enough (and I personally think now IT IS enough) they'll be out of the EU with or without their consent.

I really hope Juncker's statement is a real promise and not another negotiating move. It's time to end this poor show and move on with our lives.

Of course Junker has no say in this, but no doubt his opinion will be sought within the EU council. Otherwise I agree with your post - enough is enough.

NutLoose 17th Oct 2019 15:55

Firk me.... we all have an agreement, enough IS enough.....

Right, let's all now get onto solving world poverty.... I accept used low denomination notes in Sterling only please as the exchange rate is a crippler..... ;)

bulldog89 17th Oct 2019 15:55


Originally Posted by yellowtriumph (Post 10596838)


Of course Junker has no say in this, but no doubt his opinion will be sought within the EU council. Otherwise I agree with your post - enough is enough.

Sure, he has virtually no power, but I think his "opinion" will influence (or direct if you prefer) the Council...

Exrigger 17th Oct 2019 16:14

From the link:https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/988239...t-bill-hilary/


But, as my colleague Jennifer Rankin points out, it is questionable whether, in practice, the EU27 would rule out another extension if the alternative were no deal.Not surprising that Jean-Claude Juncker wants to quash talk of an extension. EU dearly wants Brexit over and done with. In reality, if UK asked for delay, under Benn Act, hard to see that the EU would say no.
The Benn act I believe is being misconstrued as it states:

It requires the Government to either reach a deal - or gain Parliament's approval for a No Deal Brexit by October 19.

If the Government does not do either by the October deadline, the legislation would then require the Prime Minister to write to the EU to request another extension.

The date for this extension, as suggested in the bill, would be 31 January 2020.

If the EU suggests another date then the legislation requires the Prime Minister to accept this - unless the Commons votes against the proposed date.
As Johnson has complied with the Benn act to the letter by reaching a deal with the EU by the 19th, there is no provision in the act to force the PM to request an extension if Westminster does not accept that agreement/deal, therefore complying with both the Benn Act and Article 50 the UK would default out on the 31st.

Even if remain win the legal challenge to stop Johnson putting the deal to Westminster on Saturday, he has still complied with the Benn Act to the letter and it is remain that have then led to a default leave, stopping the agreement from being voted on is no difference in reality to voting it down, none of which means Johnson has broken the law as written in the Benn Act.

Wonder if someone has lost the ball along the line and not co-ordinated the offensive strategy and scored an own goal of getting the very thing they did not want i.e. a default leave at the end of the month.

Having said all that I have no doubt that Johnson will ask for a delay and the EU will agree to it, and we will be back to square one. Another referendum could be fun as it now appears that the only question that would be valid would be: Accept the deal or leave by default, the remain option has been asked, rejected and not 'honoured' yet.

wiggy 17th Oct 2019 16:16

As you say Mr Juncker may well state his opinion, so here is video of him talking to the press earlier..he starts with....

"We have a deal, and this deal means that is no need for any kind of prolongation........"


Question is is he actually saying he of the opinion that he would like to rule out an "extension under any circumstances..", which is how it is being reported by some in the media? Sounds to me (from that sound bite) as if he has left himself wriggle room..

ATNotts 17th Oct 2019 16:18


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10596735)
Looks like the pressure from the EU is starting. sky reporting Juncker’s as saying, when asked, there would be “no prolongation” past the 31st; and the Luxembourg PM as sYing he would not vote to allow any further extension.

Juncker doesn't have it within his gift to make decisions like that with the agreement of the 27 nations that make up the EU. The Commission is servant to the member states, not master of them.

That said I do detect something of a double act between the Commission and Boris Johnson. The EU really want rid of the UK, with the latest deal (well any deal actually) so it is certainly a useful to ramp up the pressure on UK politicians to vote in favour, or run the rsik of the EU saying no to any further extension. However I really can't see them not extending were the commons to vote in favour of a new referendum, with Johnson's deal vs. remain on the ballot paper.

The next few days are going to be really interesting.

Effluent Man 17th Oct 2019 16:39

Juncker's statement is being explained as a linguistic hiccup by the media. There is no way the EU will cause a NoDeal exit if at all avoidable. I shall be offering my help, under cover of course, to Farage's outfit in any upcoming GE.

Exrigger 17th Oct 2019 16:53

Interesting to note how quickly they have forgotten when they took control and Bercow allowed the 8 Indicative votes to debate various Brexit solutions and the results they achieved, also many forget that they voted to issue Article 50 by 498 MP's to 114, I know everyone has the right to change their minds :):

https://brexitcentral.com/results-of...how-mps-voted/


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