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Exrigger 16th Oct 2019 14:24


but make it absolutely crystal clear that the decision taken in that referendum is final, and do that by ensuring legislation has passed into law before the referendum.
Would that apply if leave won again, or would there be some other excuses to fudge it and try and hold another one?

ORAC 16th Oct 2019 14:25

The problem is a second referendum would be seen as a stitch-up.

The questions would be chosen to favour remain. The franchise would extended to include 16 year olds, probably all ex-pats and possibly EU residents in the UK. It would even be possible to set the winning margin t9 change the status quo at, say 60%. Itís equally possible the Electoral Reform Society would be used to debar the most effective leave campaigners by nefarious means, just as they have, unsuccessfully, attempted to find and prosecute them after the first.

Worse, the inevitable result would be a campaign to boycott the poll to render it invalid - and a promise from the BXP, and possibly Conservatives, to ignore the result and stand on an election manifesto to implement Brexit if they are given a majority at the following election.

felixflyer 16th Oct 2019 14:30


Option "2" of your list simply isn't on the cards
You don't know that though, you're just guessing. EU membership is much different to what was voted for in the 70's. There is no 'Status Quo' The EU is forever moving towards Monet's dream and will continue to do so. Will we ever get to vote again if we chose to stay?

We hear all the time that brexiters didn't know what they were voting for but the truth is neither did/do remainers. Some want the full USE and Euro, some want what we had before the ref and some voted to remain because they thought they wouldn't be able to buy pain au chocalat in Pret if we left. Remainers are as much of a mixed bunch as leavers so the only sensible tohing to do was to ask which direction in or out and move on from there. Have a 2nd ref on deal or no deal if you think the public should decide but remain has already been taken off the table.

Any reasoning for having a 2nd ref such as having more info or people dying off can also be used to have a 3rd, 4th ref etc. Where does it stop?

LowNSlow 16th Oct 2019 14:42

charliegolf; I completely agree with you on the need for an upgrade for sections of the road especially the crazy roundabout in Hirwaun but does a traffic flow of 16-24,000 vehicle/day effectively justify building a motorway?

Getting back to the 'B' word, the chances of a deal being done seem to be slipping away....

Just a spotter 16th Oct 2019 15:09

Some conflicting reports as to whether the DUP are on board or not

RT… is reporting, the view from Brussels is the DUP are on board

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit-count...3681-eu-talks/


The DUP hold a different view

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there still appears to be significant items to be addressed;

There are still issues to be resolved in Brexit negotiations, particularly on the issue of consent for Northern Ireland as well as some on customs, Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...ooms-1.4052301

JAS

Aihkio 16th Oct 2019 15:10

Has anyone seen the one person to blame for this shebang, Cameron? HasnT anybody turn over any rocks?

:cool:

felixflyer 16th Oct 2019 15:12


Has anyone seen the one person to blame for this shebang, Cameron? HasnT anybody turn over any rocks?
Blame for what? Holding a referendum where the majority voted for change?

Just a spotter 16th Oct 2019 15:17


Originally Posted by Aihkio (Post 10595795)
Has anyone seen the one person to blame for this shebang, Cameron? HasnT anybody turn over any rocks?

:cool:

He's on the latest Freakonimics podcast

The Prime Minister Who Cried Brexit (Ep. 392) - Freakonomics Freakonomics

JAS

Fly Aiprt 16th Oct 2019 15:24


Originally Posted by felixflyer (Post 10595797)
Blame for what? Holding a referendum where the majority voted for change?

Hmm, 52/48 majority in a country with no ID check on voters, I'd be veeery cautious...
Better find another argument ;-)

Fly Aiprt 16th Oct 2019 15:26


Originally Posted by Aihkio (Post 10595795)
Has anyone seen the one person to blame for this shebang, Cameron? HasnT anybody turn over any rocks?

He's the instigator, but those millions of erm.. people that followed him are equally responsible.

felixflyer 16th Oct 2019 15:27


Hmm, 52/48 majority in a country with no ID check on voters, I'd be veeery cautious...
Better find another argument ;-)
As has already been explained to you voter fraud is widely acknowledged to mainly come from a certain demographic who also overwhelmingly voted to remain.

Krystal n chips 16th Oct 2019 15:35

" Think of the above as an introduction to the facts of the matter from somebody who has been using these roads for the last 45 years "

Well in that case, it's somewhat bemusing that you posed the question about money being spent on it.......

LowNSlow 16th Oct 2019 15:53

KnC: it's not the money per se, its the amount viz: [QUOTEcharliegolf; I completely agree with you on the need for an upgrade for sections of the road especially the crazy roundabout in Hirwaun but does a traffic flow of 16-24,000 vehicle/day effectively justify building a motorway?][/QUOTE]

wiggy 16th Oct 2019 16:15

Given the interesting anecdotes upthread about voting habits this might be worth read, especially the full pdf, and those interested in the level of student voting might want to look at section 3.4...

https://researchbriefings.parliament...501#fullreport

Fly Aiprt 16th Oct 2019 16:30


Originally Posted by felixflyer (Post 10595806)
As has already been explained to you voter fraud is widely acknowledged to mainly come from a certain demographic who also overwhelmingly voted to remain.

Hahaha felix, that's a good one !
"We don't know who voted and how many times, but we know who frauded".
Great humour...or should I say...imagination ?
There's a nation where IDs are checked when voting, the results are interesting...
Very funny all the same ;-)


Effluent Man 16th Oct 2019 17:14


Originally Posted by felixflyer (Post 10595806)
As has already been explained to you voter fraud is widely acknowledged to mainly come from a certain demographic who also overwhelmingly voted to remain.

​​​​​​​Really? I thought that Putin was in favour of Leave.

Pontius Navigator 16th Oct 2019 17:21


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 10595774)
charliegolf; I completely agree with you on the need for an upgrade for sections of the road especially the crazy roundabout in Hirwaun but does a traffic flow of 16-24,000 vehicle/day effectively justify building a motorway?

Getting back to the 'B' word, the chances of a deal being done seem to be slipping away....

Good to see, but your view could be seen by others as evidence that THEY are spending OUR money when WE would spend it differently.

ATNotts confirms my point there in many cases we try and pretend it wasn't the EU.

In Europe they seem proud of what the EU project has done for them.

Krystal n chips 16th Oct 2019 17:28


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 10595827)
KnC: it's not the money per se, its the amount viz: [QUOTE[color=left=#000000]charliegolf; I completely agree with you on the need for an upgrade for sections of the road especially the crazy roundabout in Hirwaun but does a traffic flow of 16-24,000 vehicle/day effectively justify building a motorway?]

[/QUOTE]

The amount ?.....well lets be fair here. Construction and infrastructure projects are notorious for overspends on the original budget proposal.

Does the road justify this expenditure ?..........well you've had personal experience, as have I over the years, many times, so really the answer is self-evident.....YES

https://www.constructionproducts.org...ture-projects/

Fareastdriver 16th Oct 2019 17:34

If we hadn't given so much money to the EU we could have done it ourselves.

LowNSlow 16th Oct 2019 18:00

Fly Aiprt, after the 2016 Referendum there were 70 cases referred to the Police for investigation out of these there was 1 conviction, 1 caution, and 7 cases were "locally resolved". The rest were dismissed.

Hardly rampant evidence of voting fraud.....


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