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Pontius Navigator 29th Sep 2019 08:13

Torquetalk,

Of course they are Conservative voters and therefore helped to deliver Brexit, but any hint of contrition or insight as to their role in helping to get the country into this mess by voting for those half-baked populist fools Cameron and May?
The implication that they should not have voted Conservative as this supported Brexit may be true but ignores the point that Brexit is but a single, though probably the most important, issue. As Conservatives they had only one way to make their views known: vote in the referendum. To not vote conservative in the election could, in their view, ensure a Corbyn Government.

Just a spotter 29th Sep 2019 09:11

RTɒs Europe Correspondent Tony Connelly reports on a pretty pessimistic outlook inside the EU.

RT.ie 28 Sept 2019

Under Boris Johnson, the UK has abandoned some of the core objectives of the backstop: protecting the all-island economy, north-south cooperation, the integrity of the single market and avoiding a hard border and related checks and controls."The objective for the UK now," says an EU official closely involved in the negotiations, "is to have as invisible a border as possible and reduce friction where you can. But there would still be, to all intents and purposes, a regulatory and customs border on the island of Ireland
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and...supreme-court/

JAS

Fly Aiprt 29th Sep 2019 09:12

It appears that before the Leave campaign, EU membership didn't rank high in people's minds, as compared to NHS, unemployment, police, crime etc...
This has changed, and presumably for decades...

BTW, stumbled on this, showing that undecided opinions were about as numerous as leave opinions...Obviously the Leave campaige exacerbated everything.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fd4c606ad8.png

Pontius Navigator 29th Sep 2019 10:18

Fly, correct. The problem, as I see it, and it was mentioned before, everything good is as a result of our honourable MP s. Everything bad is as a consequence of the German controlled EU.

When you get into the detail we find that many home grown initiatives are unashamedly cribbed from elsewhere

Sallyann1234 29th Sep 2019 13:17

Or as Flanders and Swann put it so well...


andrewn 29th Sep 2019 14:27


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10580335)
KelvinD, I believe andrewn's message was tongue in cheek.

Lol, no it wasnt!

kelvin, for a supposed non-remainer you have a remarkably glass half empty outlook. Your use of statistics isnt really helping your case here, but for what its worth:
  • UK GDP growth has been broadly comparable to the Eurozone average since the Brexit vote.
  • More importantly, and the central thrust of my argument, is that GDP growth is not a valid measure of the overall "wellbeing" of a Nation. We need to move away from the assumption that all that matters is economic growth, but theres little hope of that whilst the electorate is force fed almost daily economic numbers from the beeb and other mainstream media.
  • No idea what your 75.6% refers too, but its widely accepted we are as good as at full employment as we've ever been. We are struggling to fill key positions in both the public and private sector, as I'm sure you'd acknowledge.
  • Govt figures on housing completions are famously unreliable. The point is they are hell bent on dramatically increasing supply, ripping up the planning rule book whilst subsidising Developer profits and bugger the consequences to the environment or peoples quality of life.
  • Just had the joy of travelling up the M1, vast tracts of land being bulldozed and turned into either housing or logistics parks, a mix of the two in some particularly unfortunate cases. Yet another sign of an economy on the rocks, not!

NoelEvans 29th Sep 2019 14:34

And remember all the job losses (800,000 wasn't it?), economic decline and the requirement for an emergency Budget that would result from a 'Leave' vote over 3 years ago?

andrewn 29th Sep 2019 14:45


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10581821)
Because ignorants and racists were more numerous ?

Oohh, you just cant say things like that... :(

Quite the contrary I'd say the 17.4 M showed a level of comprehension and intellect that outweighed the combined might of the various Remain establishment entities.

What is it about Change that Remainers are SO scared of??

andrewn 29th Sep 2019 14:49


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10582292)
And remember all the job losses (800,000 wasn't it?), economic decline and the requirement for an emergency Budget that would result from a 'Leave' vote over 3 years ago?

Thankfully that potato famine held off as well...

Krystal n chips 29th Sep 2019 15:06


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10582092)
It appears that before the Leave campaign, EU membership didn't rank high in people's minds, as compared to NHS, unemployment, police, crime etc...
This have changed, and presumably for decades...

BTW, stumbled on this, showing that undecided opinions were about as numerous as leave opinions...Obviously the Leave campaige exacerbated everything.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....fd4c606ad8.png

You were probably fortunate to have missed the television campaigns in the run up to the referendum. However, since you mention the NHS, and exacerbate, here's one vomit inducing example. To be fair, some of the Remain adverts were not entirely inspiring to watch either. This one has a happy ending you will be pleased to learn. That said, a lot of fairy tales do.......





NoelEvans 29th Sep 2019 18:08


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10581821)
Because ignorants and racists were more numerous ?

Funny old thing, that is exactly the sort of terminology that I heard very publicly from many leading 'remain' people immediately after the result. The same ones that are now saying that people should watch their language!

Harley Quinn was totally correct with his comment

Now, that really is the pot calling the kettle black!
But is he allowed to mention that 'hue'?

I know someone who chose not to vote in the referendum, then had torrents of abuse poured out (to everyone) on Farcebook from the 'remainers' saying that "If you didn't vote 'remain' then 'unfriend' me", who were then startled to find themselves 'unfriended' on the basis that "If I didn't vote at all then I didn't vote 'remain'!" The 'leave' people were a lot politer and less offensive than the 'remain' people at the time. And it appears that three years of dithering has not changes that.

NoelEvans 29th Sep 2019 18:10


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10582304)
Thankfully that potato famine held off as well...

I was told by an Irishman once that the reason for the potato famine was that the Irish had forgotten where they had buried the potatoes.

Tu.114 29th Sep 2019 18:29

On another, not entirely unrelated note. Today, there has been an election to the Austrian national parliament.

Maybe the fact that the only openly EU sceptic party in the Austrian spectrum, the FP, took a nose dive and dropped from 26 down to about 16% is of a little interest here. While they did only subtly spray some vitriol against the EU in their campaign, it seems that the desire to emulate the British in their struggle against the perceived evil empire is not that widespread among Austrian voters. In fact, the Greens that have always embraced the idea of European unification have gained about the same 10% and may well end up in the next government...

Dan Gerous 29th Sep 2019 20:27

Remember that campaign a while back, to join the labour party for 3 and get a vote on who the leader should be? I wonder how many did join, to vote for Jeremy as a spoiler. That could come back to bite them in the ass.

Cornish Jack 29th Sep 2019 20:29

Watched the Marr programme on the Beeb this morning. As usual, much heat and little light. However, the intro section showed a headline from one of our gloriously impartial news sheets claiming that Johnson would be elected even if he had been jailed! Interesting, but not entirely surprising, given the demonstrated mental processes of his supporters. It led to me considering just what it is that promotes such fawning admiration for a demonstrable bullying, uncaring, self-seeking little-minded example of the worst of the 'Establishment'.
The penny finally dropped when we were 'treated' to facial close-ups. It also explains why a fat, slovenly lump who has difficulties with wardrobe and social interaction, seemingly appeals to females. My theory is based on past research by Desmond Morris,specifically on chimpanzees. As I recall they use facial expressions, much as humans, to indicate interest, pleasure etc. The smile, therefore, is very important. Johnson has what, in normal people, would be a smile, the whole time he is unengaged ... except that it isn't a smile - it is a rictus - permanent, involuntary, a physical abnormality just as much as would be a carbuncle or hare-lip. It becomes noticeable, so-to-speak, when he has to expound on something requiring mental effort rather than the endless repetitive claptrap which is his staple. I suspect that this little musing may well not find favour with some of our contributors but I find it a relief to explain, even if only to myself, such a glaring anomaly.

Islandlad 29th Sep 2019 20:38


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 10582528)
Watched the Marr programme on the Beeb this morning. As usual, much heat and little light. However, the intro section showed a headline from one of our gloriously impartial news sheets claiming that Johnson would be elected even if he had been jailed! Interesting, but not entirely surprising, given the demonstrated mental processes of his supporters. It led to me considering just what it is that promotes such fawning admiration for a demonstrable bullying, uncaring, self-seeking little-minded example of the worst of the 'Establishment'.
The penny finally dropped when we were 'treated' to facial close-ups. It also explains why a fat, slovenly lump who has difficulties with wardrobe and social interaction, seemingly appeals to females. My theory is based on past research by Desmond Morris,specifically on chimpanzees. As I recall they use facial expressions, much as humans, to indicate interest, pleasure etc. The smile, therefore, is very important. Johnson has what, in normal people, would be a smile, the whole time he is unengaged ... except that it isn't a smile - it is a rictus - permanent, involuntary, a physical abnormality just as much as would be a carbuncle or hare-lip. It becomes noticeable, so-to-speak, when he has to expound on something requiring mental effort rather than the endless repetitive claptrap which is his staple. I suspect that this little musing may well not find favour with some of our contributors but I find it a relief to explain, even if only to myself, such a glaring anomaly.

BJ's performance will blow Brexit and probably with a supporting second referendum to finish it once and for good.

Sallyann1234 29th Sep 2019 21:04


Originally Posted by Tu.114 (Post 10582456)
On another, not entirely unrelated note. Today, there has been an election to the Austrian national parliament.

Maybe the fact that the only openly EU sceptic party in the Austrian spectrum, the FP, took a nose dive and dropped from 26 down to about 16% is of a little interest here. While they did only subtly spray some vitriol against the EU in their campaign, it seems that the desire to emulate the British in their struggle against the perceived evil empire is not that widespread among Austrian voters. In fact, the Greens that have always embraced the idea of European unification have gained about the same 10% and may well end up in the next government...

A similar trend has happened in Italy.
Far from being the beginning of the end of the EU as some have predicted/desired for Brexit, the opposite is happening.*
The EU will be stronger without the UK.

Torquetalk 29th Sep 2019 21:29


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10582053)
Torquetalk,

The implication that they should not have voted Conservative as this supported Brexit may be true but ignores the point that Brexit is but a single, though probably the most important, issue. As Conservatives they had only one way to make their views known: vote in the referendum. To not vote conservative in the election could, in their view, ensure a Corbyn Government.

PN

It is their vote to use as they wish. I may be of the view that the Cs (insert own imagined word) are primarily responsible for the gravity of the current mess, but that is my view and it is absolutely their right as citizens to vote for who they wish.

What is not their right is speculating about curtailing the rights of other citizens because it all got a bit of hand and they didnt like where their vote helped to get us. In fact their position is despicable.

Torquetalk 29th Sep 2019 21:34


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10581918)
I might not be the most reliable reader here, but I'd say the word "thickies" was in the words of the persons he was talking about, not his (Torquetalk's) own words.
Well not sure I wrote it right, but hope you get the idea.

Quite right Fly. Mr Optimistic has got the wrong end of the stick because he is too busy being outraged. Actually, I think he may be struggling a bit with his inner troll, but please keep this to yourself.

Fly Aiprt 29th Sep 2019 22:17


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10582300)
Oohh, you just cant say things like that... :(

Quite the contrary I'd say the 17.4 M showed a level of comprehension and intellect that outweighed the combined might of the various Remain establishment entities.

;-)
Sir I commend you for this clever response !


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10582300)
What is it about Change that Remainers are SO scared of??

Maybe that the presumed benefits might be imaginary ?
Any precise examples as to the contrary ? (Please hard facts, no politician speech)


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