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Sallyann1234 26th Sep 2019 18:14


Originally Posted by Alsacienne (Post 10580263)
So now that Parliament has been recalled, apart from all the hot air and toxicity, has anything useful/concrete been done to further Brexit or non-Brexit by any body?

Today is Thursday. I think you should post that question tomorrow, in another thread suitably named.

KelvinD 26th Sep 2019 19:49


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10577567)
Yep - and that again, for the millionth time. I dont know what it is about Remainers that makes them SO blind to everything that is happening around them. Lets get some facts on the table shall we:
  • GDP expansion is OUT OF CONTROL
  • We are at FULL EMPLOYMENT
  • We are growing SO FAST we cant find enough people to do the jobs that need doing
  • We are building THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND new homes per annum (each and every year)!!
  • Cambridge is one of the FASTEST GROWING cities in Europe, combine it with London, Milton Keynes and Oxford and that alone is an economy that outstrips many other European countries
  • We can afford to throw £100 BILLION at a railway nobody wants
  • We are spending BILLIONS building new roads
  • BILLIONS of pounds are being invested in and around Manchester Airport, through a combination of Public, Private and Foreign Direct Investment
  • Yes, the FORD plant in Bridgend is closing, but guess what? INEOS are building a new factory to make 4x4's on a greenfield site right next door - bet the mainstream media didnt tell you that one?
  • And so on, and so on and so on....
BREXIT is utterly irrelevant at the macro level, at worst it MIGHT slow growth down a percentage point or two.

PLEASE - Give it a Rest and take a chill pill - your precious economic miracle is NOT going to be taken away from you by Goddam Brexit!!

EDIT: DEAL OR NO BLOODY DEAL!!

Well, that is interesting. Not accurate though:

GDP expansion is OUT OF CONTROL
Britain's economy shrank 0.2 percent in the second quarter of 2019
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-growth

We are at FULL EMPLOYMENT
According to HMG it is at 75.6%
Of those employed, in 2017 the ONS said "The November 2017 estimate of 1.8 million contracts that do not guarantee hours and where work was carried out has a 95% confidence interval of plus or minus 173,032, which means the true figure is likely to lie between 1.6 million and 2.0 million.." The ONS has now ceased publishing these figures so 2017 was the latest available.

We are building THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND new homes per annum (each and every year)!!
Where? Not in the UK. The government's own figures for the full year 2018 show total completions at 165,090. Of these, there was just over 2,000 Local Authority completions.
During the same 2018-2019 period, the government is boasting of 18,895 "Affordable Homes" being built (this is included in the Private housing completions).
And I am not a remainer! Thinking of changing my choice to 'anarchist' though.

Fly Aiprt 26th Sep 2019 20:01


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 10580328)
Well, that is interesting. Not accurate though:

KelvinD, I believe andrewn's message was tongue in cheek.


Krystal n chips 27th Sep 2019 05:30


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580239)
And that is considering the extreme. So if not every single thing goes wrong and much of it goes to plan then things should be restored to 'normal' a lot quicker. And there is even a chance, if the planning has all been worked out well enough, that things could continue almost as normal (or possibly even better?) right from the beginning.

But then, the 'other side' seems to be considering it possibly to be an "emergency".

It would have been so nice to have seen this level of planning in February (but then, Mr Hammond didn't want things to work, did he?) and I am pleased to see it being done now.

If only they had read the matrix signs on the M1 / A1 / A1M or any of the drovers tracks that constitute arterial routes in Yorkshire, or, better still, had been privy to the expertise in contingency planning as to how to cope with a flooded road........big "ROAD CLOSED " signs come to mind here....... their fears would be groundless.......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-brexit-report

ORAC 27th Sep 2019 06:18

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...-escape-route/

Has the Supreme Court handed Boris Johnson a Brexit escape route?

The Supreme Court’s judgement is the latest constitutional perversion after the Benn act. But ironically it may assist the Government in achieving its objective of Britain leaving the EU by 31 October, without having to seek an extension to the Article 50 process.

In paragraph 34, the Supreme Court states that its ‘proper function’ under our constitution is to give effect to the separation of powers (which justifies court intervention in relation to prorogation). Then, in what appears to be an innocuous sentence in paragraph 55, it says that it is to be “remember[ed] always that the actual task of governing is for the executive and not for Parliament or the courts.”

Yet the Benn Act manifestly contradicts this principle. It dictates how the Government must conduct negotiations with a foreign body, the EU, to the extent of obliging the Prime Minister to write specifically worded letters and accept whatever extension it offers when certain conditions are not met. In the situation when the conditions are not met (i.e. if the House of Commons has not voted for a deal or approved exit without a deal), the Prime Minister then has no choice but to act as instructed, whether he wants to or not. At that point, in what sense is he governing? The Prime Minister becomes a mere puppet of Parliament, which to all intents and purposes is the governing body........

Before the Cooper-Letwin Act and the Benn Act, the House of Commons and the House of Lords were the checks on the unconstitutional power of the Crown in Parliament. The Government should now test whether the Court will apply with consistency the reasoning that it used to justify its new constitutional powers in relation to prorogation.

If the matter of prorogation is now justiciable because the Court can protect Parliamentary sovereignty and accountability as part of the fundamental separation of powers, then why should the Court not also intervene when that principle is violated by a Parliament which presumes to usurp the executive by taking upon itself the actual task of governing?

The way is now open for Boris Johnson to refuse to comply with the Benn Act on the legitimate ground that the Act is unconstitutional and that the courts (and ultimately the Supreme Court) will agree; and even if the Court won’t go so far as declaring it an actual nullity, then at least they will refuse to enforce it.

ShotOne 27th Sep 2019 06:19

Just watched the BBC clip of Karl Turner (Lab. Hull E) getting angrily shouty at Cummings about nasty things his own constituents have said to him. Turners constituents voted overwhelmingly(72%) leave yet he has blocked at every turn. Bit rich to blame Cummings for their anger.

NoelEvans 27th Sep 2019 07:42


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10580253)
...
Thank you for your sollicitude for the EU ;-)
But it could be that you got it wrong : the emergency is envisaged for the UK.

...

From the BBC, 2 September:

The European Commission is considering allowing EU countries to apply for cash to cope with a no-deal Brexit using a special emergency fund.

Officials are working on a plan to classify no deal as a "major disaster", a category normally used to describe destructive natural events such as earthquakes or major floods.

... ...

Under the proposals being considered by the Commission, EU countries would be able to apply for no-deal cash using the EU's solidarity fund.

BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said the plans would be discussed on Monday, and could be formalised at a Commission meeting due on Wednesday.

The fund, first set up after flooding in central Europe in 2002, is normally used to finance repair work caused by major natural disasters.

Since then it has been used to provide help to a number of countries coping with the aftermath of earthquakes and floods, including Italy, Germany and Austria.


So the Commission consider that a no-deal Brexit would be similar to an 'earthquake or major flood' within EU countries.

Meanwhile within Britain "Keep Calm" and Get Ready for Brexit!!

Sallyann1234 27th Sep 2019 08:27


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580576)
From the BBC, 2 September:

So the Commission consider that a no-deal Brexit would be similar to an 'earthquake or major flood' within EU countries.

Meanwhile within Britain "Keep Calm" and Get Ready for Brexit!!

We will see, very soon, who has been best prepared.

pr00ne 27th Sep 2019 08:28


Originally Posted by [b
Bergerie1[/b];10579917]Wiggy,

Tragically, I believe the article you posted to be largely true. For the last hundred or so years, the decline of British influence in the world has been plain for all to see. Whether Brexit will lead to civil unrest may be an overstatement. I voted to remain and believe that the British electorate was lied to by Boris and others. I now accept that Britain will have to leave the EU but to do so without a deal will definitely harm the British people and the economy.

It now appears that Boris, Gove and company have done very little to negotiate a deal. Watching Gove in Parliament stating the country was well prepared was pathetic. He claimed that industry leaders were content with the government's preparations when, in fact, they said no such thing.

I am glad I now live in France!

Bergerie1,

Sorry, whilst agreeing with all you say on Gove et al, I really do have to take you to task on this flawed idea of the decline of British influence over the past 100 years. It simply isn't true.

A hundred years ago Britain sat at the heart of the largest Empire that the world had ever seen, had just emerged victorious from a world war that left it exhausted financially and traumatised emotionally, and had seen the emergence of a true super power in the USA, a super power that then retreated into isolationism thus leaving Britain as the unrivalled and most powerful nation on the planet. Something that the second world war would end forever. But an Empire isn't influence, it is control, and unpopular control at that, with both those being controlled and those looking on from outside.
Subsequently and after WW2 Britain did something that has never been seen before in human history, it divested itself on an entire Empire whilst remaining sovereign free and powerful, was not conquered and did not disappear as a nation state.

So, in 2019 we find Britain still a sovereign free independent state, the 5th wealthiest nation on the planet, the 9th largest manufacturing nation on the planet, a permanent member of the UN Security Council, a key member of the G7 and the G20, a key player in most international military interventions of recent years, successfully brought to an end a 30 year terrorist campaign, the centre for international financial trade, one of only two places you can trade the Chinese currency, the largest single investor in the United States, the largest recipient of inward investment in the EU, the largest receiver of US inward investment, consistently voted 1st, 2nd or 3rd most influential soft power in the world, a significant military player in global interventions and a maintainer of a comprehensive military capability unmatched anywhere outside the world's only remaining super-power, and clearly demonstrating that the rule of law is supreme and a sovereign parliament holds the executive to account and that reflects the country, split as that is. Some decline!

yellowtriumph 27th Sep 2019 08:40


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10580534)
Just watched the BBC clip of Karl Turner (Lab. Hull E) getting angrily shouty at Cummings about nasty things his own constituents have said to him. Turners constituents voted overwhelmingly(72%) leave yet he has blocked at every turn. Bit rich to blame Cummings for their anger.

I particularly liked the part where Cummings asked who he was. And why was it being recorded - was there some sort of agenda?

wiggy 27th Sep 2019 08:49


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10580534)
Just watched the BBC clip of Karl Turner (Lab. Hull E) getting angrily shouty at Cummings about nasty things his own constituents have said to him. Turners constituents voted overwhelmingly(72%) leave yet he has blocked at every turn. Bit rich to blame Cummings for their anger.

I take it by "nasty things" you mean death threats?

If so I take it you mean this conversation:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-polit...-death-threats

NutLoose 27th Sep 2019 09:09


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10580534)
Just watched the BBC clip of Karl Turner (Lab. Hull E) getting angrily shouty at Cummings about nasty things his own constituents have said to him. Turners constituents voted overwhelmingly(72%) leave yet he has blocked at every turn. Bit rich to blame Cummings for their anger.


Ahhh yes the Karl Turner clip that JUST HAPPENED to have a labour lacky there to film it all and then put it out to the press, nothing like setting a trap and hamming it up to the cameras is there.

wiggy 27th Sep 2019 09:22


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10580652)
Ahhh yes the Karl Turner clip that JUST HAPPENED to have a labour lacky there to film it all and then put it out to the press, nothing like setting a trap and hamming it up to the cameras is there.

Not at all sure why any of that is at all relevant to the content of the conversation....Oh, of course, it isn't.....

Bergerie1 27th Sep 2019 09:26

pr00ne,

You make some very good points. I certainly don't equate power with empire and, indeed, Britain should be very proud of relinquishing its empire much more gracefully than most other nations have ever done. We have also retained a considerable amount of 'soft power' in the financial sector, but do we have as much financial clout as the USA or China? And how much is Britain's voice in the world really listened to today? We certainly have a strong military presence in the world, but do you think China for example is influenced much by Britain? And have our more recent military interventions really been successful?

I certainly don't think we should be worried by declining power, we can still be a successful nation and have influence, but certainly not much power. Empires have risen and fallen throughout history, it is normal. National influence and power similarly waxes and wanes. And we are now in a waning phase, and have been for some time.

PC767 27th Sep 2019 09:44


Originally Posted by Alsacienne (Post 10580263)
So now that Parliament has been recalled, apart from all the hot air and toxicity, has anything useful/concrete been done to further Brexit or non-Brexit by any body?

No.

In fact despite denying the Conservative party a recess for their annual conference, on the basis that time is critical for parliament, they’ve just taken 4 days off for a long weekend.

Fly Aiprt 27th Sep 2019 10:22


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580576)
From the BBC, 2 September:

So the Commission consider that a no-deal Brexit would be similar to an 'earthquake or major flood' within EU countries.

Hahaha, Noel, once again you saw something and misinterpreted it^^!

Just read again - or better yet, have a look at European press - They say the EU will be providing cash just like in natural catastrophe emergencies. That's not the same as saying Brexit is an emergency.

Now if it is important that you believe any move in Britain is like an earthquake to the World, by all means^^!

BTW, here is a screenshot of today's Le Monde front page. Good luck searching for your earthquake announcement ;-)


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d26b2cc8a8.jpg

NoelEvans 27th Sep 2019 12:03

Is today 2 September? (What it the relevance of that screen shot?)

And I shall repeat that quote from the BBC article (from 2 Sept):

The European Commission is considering allowing EU countries to apply for cash to cope with a no-deal Brexit using a special emergency fund.

Officials are working on a plan to classify no deal as a "major disaster", a category normally used to describe destructive natural events such as earthquakes or major floods.
I will repeat my comment:
"So the Commission consider that a no-deal Brexit would be similar to an 'earthquake or major flood' within EU countries." (The terms 'similar to' and 'just like' say much the same and neither of them being 'is'.) RTFQ.

Several other news organisations reported the same on 2 September, including the Guardian, etc.

Fly Aiprt 27th Sep 2019 12:15


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580781)
Is today 2 September? (What it the relevance of that screen shot?)

That would be actual news today in another country, presumably terrified by the approach of this cataclysm
But never mind.


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580781)
And I shall repeat that quote from the BBC article (from 2 Sept):

I will repeat my comment:
"So the Commission consider that a no-deal Brexit would be similar to an 'earthquake or major flood' within EU countries." (The terms 'similar to' and 'just like' say much the same and neither of them being 'is'.) RTFQ.

Failing to understand such subtleties in one's own language is not an indication of brilliance, but as you like, my friend ;-)
And don't forget to stay polite.


Sallyann1234 27th Sep 2019 12:24

Since the discussion is about the relative concerns around Brexit within the UK and EU, today's Le Monde front page is certainly relevant. Compare it with today's front page of ANY UK national paper.

Yes the EU has an emergency fund, a very sensible precaution. The Irish Republic has already been promised financial support after Brexit.
Is anyone coming to the UK's aid with similar financial support?

NoelEvans 27th Sep 2019 12:43


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10580798)
...
Is anyone coming to the UK's aid with similar financial support?

Probably 'in effect' the EU? Out of that money that the UK will no longer be paying to the EU? (How will the EU cope when its second biggest net contributor leaves?)


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