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NutLoose 26th Sep 2019 12:10


Originally Posted by Bergerie1 https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gifIt now appears that Boris, Gove and company have done very little to negotiate a deal.















It isn't just their fault, the fault plainly lies further back over three years ago when May took over and kept the Country quiet by telling us everything was going like clockwork and we were progressing, when in reality there was no actual "negotiations" going on, rather a continuous stream of Whitehall lackies trailing out to Europe to take turns bending over the EU desk and taking a good shafting.
I still can't understand why the EU never put forward their plans and ideas, but instead foisted the whole lot on the UK, surely they way to negotiate is for both sides to come up with proposals and then meet in the middle, not to say it's up to you, read it and say no, non, nein.
The trouble is Mays lot through sheer incompetence appears to have given all our main bargaining chips away without even trying, and her deadful plan which would have turned the UK into a vassal state was the result, and now with time critical, it has to be a botch job on that plan to ever get it through in the time remaining... As for Labours we will negotiate a plan that took May 3 years in 3 months is to put it politely, up there with the cuckoos.

felixflyer 26th Sep 2019 12:14


As for Labours we will negotiate a plan that took May 3 years in 3 months is to put it politely, up there with the cuckoos.
Don't forget, not only are they going to negotiate it, they are also going to campaign against it!

Sallyann1234 26th Sep 2019 12:23


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10579893)
Wow !
Any comments about The Currency background, credibility etc. ?

Do you need to know the background?

You can judge for yourself the accuracy of the article. Is there any part of it that you disagree with?

Fly Aiprt 26th Sep 2019 12:32


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10580055)
I still can't understand why the EU never put forward their plans and ideas, but instead foisted the whole lot on the UK, surely they way to negotiate is for both sides to come up with proposals and then meet in the middle, not to say it's up to you, read it and say no, non, nein.

Haven't the EU been clear about those ideas ?

- You'll have to honour your committments
- We will not accept a hard border between Ireland and NI
- We will protect our single market
- We propose a transition period so you have time to adjust and establish trade deals with us or other countries.

Didn't your Government agree ?
What would you have thought should be changed ?




Fly Aiprt 26th Sep 2019 12:34


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10580067)
Do you need to know the background?

You can judge for yourself the accuracy of the article. Is there any part of it that you disagree with?

Actually, not at all...

Fly Aiprt 26th Sep 2019 12:38


Originally Posted by felixflyer (Post 10580033)
Well here is a start for you


Mark Carney has said the impact of a no-deal Brexit would be less severe than first thought, saying that preparations for a disorderly departure had helped to reduce the likely hit to the UK economy.
Ask anyone working in the government though and they will probably tell you they have been very busy over the last year or so.

I mean, any hard facts supporting this statement ?
Actual decisions, documents, numbers, industry analysis, official amendments to the Yellowhammer report ?


felixflyer 26th Sep 2019 12:44

No, I don't have any government documents relating to sensitive actions still being udertaken to put on a public forum.

We haven't left yet, nothing has even been decided but I know many people have been working hard to mitigate against any no deal related issues highlighted in the report.

Did you think the yellowhammer document was prepared just so everyone could read it and say 'oh well, looks like brexit is too difficult then, lets forget about it all and ignore the public?

NoelEvans 26th Sep 2019 13:29


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10579076)
;-)
Reading the posts here, it appears that the Supreme Court isn't that supreme within the UK...

Just to put the record straight, the "Originally posted by NoelEvans" used in the above post was an extract from a response the Cabinet Office that NoelEvans had posted in full, i.e. those were not the words of NoelEvans.

NoelEvans 26th Sep 2019 13:32


Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 10579098)
Or not as the case may be -

Just to put the record straight, the "Originally posted by NoelEvans" used in the above post was an extract from a response the Cabinet Office that NoelEvans had posted in full, i.e. those were not the words of NoelEvans.

NoelEvans 26th Sep 2019 14:00

I am really pleased about the "Get Ready for Brexit" campaign in Britain at the moment. A while ago I passed motorway information signs in Yorkshire advising freight drivers heading for Channel Ports to ensure that they had the correct paperwork from 1st Nov. This is in addition to the frequent adverts on a wide range of Brexit preparation aspects on commercial radio. It shows effort going into getting the country prepared, which would have been very nice to have heard in February when we were expecting a 29th March departure.

I see that the EU has decided that a no-deal Brexit would be declared as an "emergency". Perhaps some preparation along the lines of what is being done in Britain could avert this?

Regarding the "Yellowhammer" report: Someone that I know well has worked on drainage and flood planning. This planning always considers 'worst case' situations. That is not what would be considered in any way normal, but rather the extreme. Being prepared for the extreme means that all situations are planned for and can be managed. Any responsible organisation doing any such planning should always consider the worst case situation in order to be able to plan for it to be avoided. Put simply, the worst case flood planning may show that in an extreme flood a road might be flooded; knowing that arrangements can be made to avoid that road being flooded, e.g. flood banks, etc. It is quite clear that the "Yellowhammer" report was part of exactly such a process, i.e. identifying where potential problems could be in order to plan to avoid them. I am pleased to see that sort of planning being carried out. Through that sort of planning we can avoid having to declare any form of Brexit to be an Emergency" in this country.

Bergerie1 26th Sep 2019 14:03

felixflyer,

This is what industry representatives told Michael Gove. Yet he chose to misrepresent their views in Parliament yesterdary:-
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49833221

This is just one example showing why I disblieve the government and why I think that leaving the EU without a workable deal would be very bad for the country. There are numerous other examples too.

felixflyer 26th Sep 2019 14:20

But this assumes that leaving the EU without a deal is bad purely because we are unprepared. I suggest we are unprepared because for the last 3 years nobody has known whether we are staying, leaving with some kind of deal, leaving with no deal or having another referendum.

Maybe if we had decided to plan from the start for no deal then we would be further advanced and prepared. Any deal or concessions that came about in the meantime would only have improved the situation.

To say we should not have chose to leave 3 years ago because we are not prepared today for something which might not happen next month because those that lost 3 years ago cannot accept the decision doesn't really make sense.

Sallyann1234 26th Sep 2019 16:50

If being unprepared was the only aspect, I'm sure we could muddle through in the traditional British manner.
But it's not.

Krystal n chips 26th Sep 2019 16:51


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580120)
I am really pleased about the "Get Ready for Brexit" campaign in Britain at the moment. A while ago I passed motorway information signs in Yorkshire advising freight drivers heading for Channel Ports to ensure that they had the correct paperwork from 1st Nov. This is in addition to the frequent adverts on a wide range of Brexit preparation aspects on commercial radio. It shows effort going into getting the country prepared, which would have been very nice to have heard in February when we were expecting a 29th March departure.

I see that the EU has decided that a no-deal Brexit would be declared as an "emergency". Perhaps some preparation along the lines of what is being done in Britain could avert this?

Regarding the "Yellowhammer" report: Someone that I know well has worked on drainage and flood planning. This planning always considers 'worst case' situations. That is not what would be considered in any way normal, but rather the extreme. Being prepared for the extreme means that all situations are planned for and can be managed. Any responsible organisation doing any such planning should always consider the worst case situation in order to be able to plan for it to be avoided. Put simply, the worst case flood planning may show that in an extreme flood a road might be flooded; knowing that arrangements can be made to avoid that road being flooded, e.g. flood banks, etc. It is quite clear that the "Yellowhammer" report was part of exactly such a process, i.e. identifying where potential problems could be in order to plan to avoid them. I am pleased to see that sort of planning being carried out. Through that sort of planning we can avoid having to declare any form of Brexit to be an Emergency" in this country.

Well that's a great relief to hear.....all is well in your world and........ you approve of the Gov't plans.

Others, however, may take a more realistic, in contrast to roseate, view. A couple of articles here for your viewing therefore. Of course, they could have been skilfully edited, or even dubbed, because neither of the pieces content supports your unbridled and wishful optimism............

https://www.channel4.com/news/progra...019/09/25/1900

Ooops.nearly forgot.....once we have left, how long do you think it will take to restore supply chains and distribution centres to their current ( EU membership ) efficiency ....and thereafter how long before the insidious effects of leaving become more and more evident ?.

WingNut60 26th Sep 2019 17:04


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 10580218)
Ooops.nearly forgot.....once we have left, how long do you think it will take to restore supply chains and distribution centres to their current ( EU membership ) efficiency ....and thereafter how long before the insidious effects of leaving become more and more evident ?.

If I read it correctly, Yellowhammer was suggesting 6 months.

NoelEvans 26th Sep 2019 17:22

And that is considering the extreme. So if not every single thing goes wrong and much of it goes to plan then things should be restored to 'normal' a lot quicker. And there is even a chance, if the planning has all been worked out well enough, that things could continue almost as normal (or possibly even better?) right from the beginning.

But then, the 'other side' seems to be considering it possibly to be an "emergency".

It would have been so nice to have seen this level of planning in February (but then, Mr Hammond didn't want things to work, did he?) and I am pleased to see it being done now.

Fly Aiprt 26th Sep 2019 17:27


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580104)
Just to put the record straight, the "Originally posted by NoelEvans" used in the above post was an extract from a response the Cabinet Office that NoelEvans had posted in full, i.e. those were not the words of NoelEvans.

Point taken. Should have used quotation marks.
Sorry about that, sir.

Cornish Jack 26th Sep 2019 17:44

"Being prepared for the extreme means that all situations are planned for and can be managed. Any responsible organisation doing any such planning should always consider the worst case situation in order to be able to C. Put simply, the worst case flood planning may show that in an extreme flood a road might be flooded; knowing that arrangements can be made to avoid that road being flooded, e.g. flood banks, etc. "
Excellent sentiments, beautifully expressed. So what could possibly be wrong? Well, for a start, Mr E is referring to the UK. I have been a citizen of and been, mainly, resident in our glorious State for 80 + years and I have NEVER (repeat, NEVER) noted our 'organisation' considering and planning for the worst case. Indeed, as being, himself, one of what its residents refer to as 'God's Own Country'-men, I would have thought he might have noticed the array of problems within the county as a result of excessive rainfall!! If he has difficulty with recall, I suggest the local newspaper reports would, no doubt, jog his memory. I'm fairly certain that his fellow citizens who had to cope with waist deep (and more) flooding might feel that " plan for it to be avoided". was somewhat less than successful.
Mr E's faith in the ability of our leaders to mitigate the many forecast problems, is touching but, might one suggest, a trifle naive.
I appreciate that the above will be characterised as typical 'doomsaying', however I can only speak from experience - the photo's below are what can happen (in this case CJ Mansions) when one relies on the Planning arrangements of our glorious Local Government. I hasten to add that they have now completed a major Civil Engineering project to avoid a recurrence. Our Leaders may be au fait with horses but stable doors???l


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1ac5d54827.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....d9d0b5ce4e.jpg

Perhaps one should be happy for one contented soul among the many disbelievers?

Fly Aiprt 26th Sep 2019 17:47


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580120)
It shows effort going into getting the country prepared, which would have been very nice to have heard in February when we were expecting a 29th March departure.

Can't argue with that.


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10580120)
I see that the EU has decided that a no-deal Brexit would be declared as an "emergency". Perhaps some preparation along the lines of what is being done in Britain could avert this?

Thank you for your sollicitude for the EU ;-)
But it could be that you got it wrong : the emergency is envisaged for the UK.

Some days ago I passed the info that a French Minister oversaw a full-scale rehearsal of what the controls will be in a French Channel port, and the deputy Director of Customs described what installations had been built, and how many officers hired and trained.
The question was "we suppose the British are busy preparing, but we have no hard information". I'll add that British official websites displayed a big notice "Check back for any update".
Hopefully this may have changed.

Sooo, great you are preparing, but I suggest you get information from the Continent to put things in perspective.


Alsacienne 26th Sep 2019 18:09

So now that Parliament has been recalled, apart from all the hot air and toxicity, has anything useful/concrete been done to further Brexit or non-Brexit by any body?


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