PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   Masons In Distress! (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/605330-masons-distress.html)

John_Reid 12th Feb 2018 12:01

Masons In Distress!
 
The Masons are calling foul and saying enough is enough by taking out full page adverts in newspapers. They are saying they are discriminated against. Well that maybe so, however they can go a long way towards helping their craft (witch craft?) by:

1/ Lifting the vale of secrecy. It's all very well opening up the Lodges to the public, when not in session. How about letting the public into lodge workings. Anyone can walk into a church or a mosque (except the 2 big mosques in KSA) during worship. Not so into a lodge. Why?

2/ Publish the names of members. They wont, so that is a cause of concern for me also. Some admit being a lodge member and indeed are proud of that fact.

Since the news about lodges at Westminster (what a surprise) two prominent masons have been interviewed on BBC local radio. They were on about the charity work they do and basically what great people they are. All well and good. What disappointed me was they didn't have the courage of their convictions to allow phone calls, on what was essentially a phone in program.

VP959 12th Feb 2018 12:26

The thing that gets me about Freemasonry is the massive disparity between the official image that they try to put across, and the reality for anyone who has fallen foul of the actions of some of their members.

There is, without a shadow of doubt, a "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours" culture within Freemasonry, that works to give them an advantage over others, or, in my case (from many years ago) to disadvantage someone who is not a Mason.

Sadly, Freemasonry strenuously denies this happens, when there are just far too many people who have experienced it first hand for any denial to be taken seriously.

In my case, I transferred from one research establishment to another in the late 70's, having answered an internal advert for the post, been interviewed etc, before being offered the transfer. The job was associated with anti-submarine warfare, and was quite specific, within my field and good match for both my qualifications and interests. When I moved house and took up the new post, instead of working in the lab, which I'd been shown around during the interview, I was given a stack of work on analysing films, technician work really. I asked when I was going to be able to start the job that I'd been accepted for, and told several different reasons why it wouldn't be that week/month or whatever. Eventually, after about two months, I went to see the head of the lab to ask what was going on. He was pretty abrupt, told me to do the work I'd been given and if I didn't like it, then that was tough. His degree of animosity and anger seemed really odd, so I started asking around. It turned out that the head of the lab had promised the job that I'd transferred to, to the son of a more senior member of his lodge. He had been hoping that there would be no internal applicants for the post, so when it was externally advertised he could arrange to swing the interview in favour of his lodge brothers son.

The plan backfired when I applied for a transfer, and on the interview board of three he wasn't able to stop the other two members making a recommendation that I be offered the job. He then gave me a stack of pretty pointless menial work in the hope that I'd get fed up and leave, so he could have another go an honouring the promise he'd made.

It took me around six months to get all this uncovered, and when I confronted him, saying I knew what he'd been up to, he nearly blew a fuse, giving me a long lecture about the importance of loyalty and honouring promises. The bloke really hadn't thought he'd done anything wrong at all; for him, his loyalty to his lodge brothers superseded his loyalty to his employer. I doubt this is the only time something like this has happened, either, it seems a fairly common story.

It may well be that Freemasonry itself is not to blame for lodge members behaving like this, but it does provide a atmosphere within which this type of culture can flourish, perhaps outside the formal activities of the lodge.

PingDit 12th Feb 2018 12:33

OP: I can understand why they're doing it. People do tend to discriminate when they aren't told all of the inner workings of such groups. People believe it's a secret society, which its not. It's a society with secrets. If people are so curious about the inner workings, why not buy one of the many books available on the subject to better educate themselves?

Why should their names be published? So they can be ridiculed by others who also don't know what they're talking about?

It seems to me that your only concern is that there are people with values that you have yet to be introduced to.

Dan Dare 12th Feb 2018 12:44

I heard that programme while driving and remember doing a quick mental calc:

Charitable donations/number of masons = tiny number (I think about 15 per member per year)

I concluded that charity is far from their main purpose.

I must also say, your honour, that I have no knowledge of the masons, no prejudice against them, nothing particularly against community groups - even secret ones. One has to be careful and cautious about such things...

G-CPTN 12th Feb 2018 13:17

My grandfather was a 'prominent' mason and my father was a mason - but I was never approached.
A couple of decades ago I 'crossed' a mason, and, subsequently became the unwelcome object of pernicious activity, with me ending up in court on trumped-up charges with suspect 'witnesses'.

When he retired, the village bobby confessed that the persecution had been directed by the sergeant despite the constable's 'defence' of me.

sitigeltfel 12th Feb 2018 13:18

Cronyism, favouritism, back scratching? Look no further.

The Red Princes

Since that article was published, Carl Sergeants son Jack has "inherited" his fathers seat for Labour.

(New Statesman is a Left leaning publication)

Blacksheep 12th Feb 2018 13:22

A close friend of mine was a Freemason for decades. On retirement he and his wife bought a shop in a Hampshire village, with a sub-post office. My friend was to run the post office and his wife the shop. Soon after settling back in UK his wife died leaving him in a hard place. He hired a manager for the shop but wasn't making enough profit to keep things together. He had written to the local Lodge to announce his presence in their locality but was ignored. He knew by their names some of the lodge members who came into his sub-post office and gave them the appropriate Masonic distress signs to no effect. In the end he sold the post office and moved north where his remaining savings went further and his cost of living was lower. It seems that in some lodges, charity doesn't even begin at home.

cargosales 12th Feb 2018 17:29


Originally Posted by VP959 (Post 10050534)
The thing that gets me about Freemasonry is the massive disparity between the official image that they try to put across, and the reality for anyone who has fallen foul of the actions of some of their members.

...

Sadly, Freemasonry strenuously denies this happens, when there are just far too many people who have experienced it first hand for any denial to be taken seriously.
...

I couldn't agree more and my sympathies about what you went through :uhoh:

Many years ago my business went bust and I was almost bankrupted thanks to two charming, delightful and good church-attending Christians who were business partners. But who 'just happened' to be Masons and had asked me to become one too (I have a distinctive middle name).

When I politely declined, that was it .... any pretence of being 'good Christians' went out of the window and they showed their true colours :*

Shame on the Masons for 'hijacking' a religion to hide behind and pretending to be good god-fearing christian people doing good charitable work .. I can't think of any other group that does anything like that in modern times.

Oh, hang on, maybe I can. They're about 4,000 miles away but .... :ouch:

Pontius Navigator 12th Feb 2018 17:45

I know of masonry only from a very good friend and from members if my club.

The friend was invited, thought it a bit of fun and came back from his white gloved, bare chested, rolled up trouser initiation a changed man. He is now well indoctrinated in its mysteries.

The club members however are more open possibly for a reason. I think you need to apply or make it clear you are interested so they are effectively trawling. One is a member of several Lodges. They talk of oractice sessions learning their lines etc. Almost like overgrown school boys.

I'd rather have a pint in the pub.

Loose rivets 12th Feb 2018 19:00

Another subject close to my heart. A boss of mine in the 50's was an odd kind of fellow. A bit like a gay Charlie Chaplin. We got to see his little apron with thingies hanging on it and be regaled at how fine it was to be a member.

He used to tell us boys that they all did good work, and he certainly seemed a harmless sort of chap. The old traditional jeweller next door was also a member of the same lodge. He seemed decent enough too. That was my introduction to freemasonry.

In what seems another lifetime, I was at my Essex home when I heard people cutting at the copse at the bottom of the garden. There was almost never anyone in the 2 plus acre garden and I went down to have a look. All I said was, Hey, what are you doing? I was then set-upon by someone that turned out to be a local builder. As he raced at me I slipped on the bank of a little brook and ended up with him sitting on me with his fingers more or less in my eyes. All those years of judo, and I was out in one. Sooooo frustrating. No ref to object. Then his father pulled on one arm and started kicking me in the kidney region - he back off a little when my nine year old son called to them to calm down. Bless him.

While I was on a 999 call I saw the younger man waving a machete at the Rivetess. What possessed her to go out there I don't know, but let's say, what I did next was a bit of an over-reaction.

It was a sustained and witnessed assault. The qualifications for prosecution.

I was told I'd never get them to court. A year later, a year of arguments and swapping solicitors, three lots of police 'investigations' and the most bewildering buckling of one solicitor who had started to make a complaint about police inaction. When he phoned me to say he was pulling out, his formally stern voice was weak and trembling.

After many, many local assaults - some of them quite serious, to this day, he has never been prosecuted.



The other frustrating episode was when I was a police witness against a retired professional man who'd bought himself a BMW and been involved in the most diabolical piece of dangerous driving it would be possible to imagine. After several overtakes on a B road - all cars that were bunched together - he got away with that but then came to my row. In disbelief I saw this thing flash by heading for a blind bend. There was one car ahead of me. As he passed me, a Shell fuel tanker appeared on the bend. The driver did a magnificent job of braking, but 20 tonnes of fuel takes a lot of stopping, especially when going down hill. Suspension shackles snapped on the lorry as boiling white rubber steam jetted from all the forward wheels. Everything came to a standstill. Then the BMW zoomed off.

I was in a manual shift XJ6. My blood was up. 4 headlights on and just about all the gusto I dared let loose and he was still pulling away. I caught him at the small town's crossroads and left him in no doubt he was going to stop.

When he opened his window, he was as cool as James Bond. His SIL sat there with eyes staring in shock.

Long story short.

Shell and about 15 witnesses appeared in a magistrate's court. Two magistrates, one a farmer and my mum's old boss, were presiding. I was the chief witness for the prosecution that seemed so lacklustre that I felt I wanted to jump out of the box and take over. The defence QC made the mistake of wading into me about my ability to see with my peripheral vision. My answer was highly technical a delivered with a determination that surprised even me. He buckled, and then fawned over my 'logical mind'. It didn't matter. The case was decided long before.

The gentleman farmer suddenly stood up and said that he had to go for tea. 'I'm sure my colleague will manage etc.' The man was a tiny dormouse, who delivered the sentence that bought no reaction from a senior police officer who just put his paperwork together as though he was just there to show a uniform.

Guilty of dangerous driving - fined ?? not much, and pause for the big one. No, he kept his licence.

The 'professional man' bowed to the dormouse and left a stunned-silent courtroom.


It got back to me just what had happened, but I really didn't need to have it confirmed. I'm still angry, but I've learned now that I won't change the world.

galaxy flyer 12th Feb 2018 19:16

Templars Live!

GF

artschool 12th Feb 2018 19:31

all this stuff is just myth and legend.

its a mens dining club.

Slow Biker 12th Feb 2018 21:45

Many years ago I was 'approached'. All the good deeds were explained. including that should anything 'happen' to me, my family would be looked after. Not really interested and facetiously I remarked it sounded cheaper than life insurance. Not approached again.

chevvron 12th Feb 2018 22:00

I lost count of the number of jobs I didn't get in NATS because I didn't return handshakes 'properly' at the interview.

vapilot2004 12th Feb 2018 22:57

An uncle and grandfather were Masons, with grandpap belonging to the oldest lodge in the nation. While patronage among members was encouraged, the level of control was well short of, say the Mormon church or other religious organizations here in the states.

However, I do suppose any group of organized individuals can certainly play havoc with even the most democratic of societies, and with strong loyalties, things could easily get ugly if common decency or the rule of law are ignored.

racedo 12th Feb 2018 23:35

Kenneth Noye................ cop killer but it was ok as cop not a mason and the way certain elements in the police did his bidding gives you an idea of some of what is wrong.

As a Catholic, Masons would not interest me but have met some who believe in the charitable bit but also met a lot who saw it as a way of getting one foot up the ladder at someone else's expense.

Relative was married to one 30 plus years ago, struggling in his profesion he got invited to join, sadly relative met an untimely death in an RTA but hubby being on the square never really struggled after becoming a mason.

artschool 12th Feb 2018 23:46

if being a mason is so great why doesn't everyone join?

John_Reid 13th Feb 2018 02:19

Art.
Everyone a Mason? Too many black balls for that.
"all this stuff is just myth and legend. its a mens dining club"
Bit more sinister than that, please be assured.

As for advancement, certain countries, it's no lodge, no business.

In the recent past we are reliably informed, the PM Cameron and his side kick the snake oil selling chancellor, slinked off the a Bilderberg meet. An insidious group if ever there was.

VP959 13th Feb 2018 07:36


Originally Posted by artschool (Post 10051116)
if being a mason is so great why doesn't everyone join?

Because you have to be invited, normally. Unless things have changed, they do not normally allow people to put themselves forward for membership.

Some will never get an invite, for a host of reasons. Being catholic is one of them. The selection process for choosing who to invite makes the membership a pretty selective group of society, mostly white, mostly businessmen or people in a position of influence or responsibility.

Krystal n chips 13th Feb 2018 11:23


Originally Posted by VP959 (Post 10051322)
Because you have to be invited, normally. Unless things have changed, they do not normally allow people to put themselves forward for membership.

Some will never get an invite, for a host of reasons. Being catholic is one of them. The selection process for choosing who to invite makes the membership a pretty selective group of society, mostly white, mostly businessmen or people in a position of influence or responsibility.

Not always.

About 9 years ago, one was invited to become one, by a master mason no less. The offer was garnished with the allure of "silver service dining ".....alas, as I kindly informed him, one is a Guardian reader and far from disposed towards silver service dining, and then mentioned ones opinion of masons.....this ended the conversation. He was also a BS merchant who liked to inform the world as to his gliding experience ....a grand total of 50 hrs !.....thus came the day when one dropped a few names in from Marham and mentioned ones own hours were around 900.....we never really spoke much after that.

In more recent times, one was amused, and delighted, to see a "terribly important person" ( think a certain Home Guard Capt here ) bedecked in the regalia on one of my heritage railway stations, he being part of the "management ". I always thought this was not permitted, however, there he was in all his finery, thus one, as reverent as always, commented "Nice Bling sunshine ! " .....temperature seemed to drop to about -50C at this point.

The serious bit is that we've all encountered the influences and the protection shown to other members. No matter how much denial is forthcoming in their defence.


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:44.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.