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ethicalconundrum 30th Oct 2017 23:12

On a related note - I just checked Clinton News Network, and much to my shock and dismay, there is absolute and complete silence from Clinton, Obama, and Comey regarding the days events. Not a peep out of those who should be crowing like there's no tomorrow. This has me - flummoxed.

obgraham 30th Oct 2017 23:35


Obg’s silence on this indicates they have yet to receive their talking points from the FIS.
Or more likely that this Papadopoulos guy was not, as you put it:

Trump’s senior foreign policy adviser
There's not even a ham sandwich here.

Mostly Harmless 30th Oct 2017 23:53


Originally Posted by tdracer (Post 9936796)
Mostly Harmless, the last election was like an old Simpson episode coming true. It's been a long time, and I don't remember now if it was Bill Clinton vs. Bush or vs. Dole, but the story line was the slimy space aliens had kidnapped both the presidential candidates and replaced them with space alien clones. Homer finds out, and tries to tell people to vote for someone - anyone - else. The space aliens just laugh their evil laugh and say something like "Go ahead, throw your vote away!". :{


Selecting the POTUS reminds me of an old Grocho Marx (I think) line - that he wasn't sure he wanted to belong to a club that would have him as a member. I'm not sure I want a POTUS who actually wants that job. :rolleyes:

Lol... I remember that episode. Matt Groening and friends have a talent for political satire. From Futurama... a perfect explanation of what has been wrong with politics for a long, long time now.


Send in the clones? Clone wars?

I completely agree, those who want power the most are the ones who should never have it.

pattern_is_full 31st Oct 2017 00:12


Originally Posted by obgraham (Post 9941635)
I await somebody -- anybody -- to explain to me how the Russians would manage to "rig" the election. You've got 50 separate state elections to try to influence. Good luck with that.

Now, on the other hand, Putin managed a lot more influence over the US by simply leaking out "we're trying to influence the election" while actually doing zilch.

You need to define terms and not conflate different issues.

Did the Russians get into electoral voting systems and change cast votes? Probably not.

(I don't know if such is possible - Trump himself, you will remember, loudly proclaimed that it was, and that the "election would be rigged." Do you believe him?)

Did the Russians try to do that? They were certainly probing to see how deep in they could get.

Did the Russians get into voter rolls, to try and remove legal voters from those rolls? Uncertain. How do you distinguish normal American bureacratic error from malicious Russian hacks?

Did the Russians attempt to do that? Yep - FBI and private security fims have documented the probing by hackers. "Phishing" emails trying to get electoral database passwords, etc.

Did the Russians run an agitprop campaign on social media to try to swing voters' opinions and votes? Yes - clearly admitted and documented by the social media companies themselves (upon further review). Paid ads, phony websites, fake user accounts, fake news stories invented in Macedonia, etc. etc.

Is that illegal? Depends on whether it favors one candidate, in which case yes - it's a foreign "campaign contribution in kind." Illegal to make, illegal to accept or cooperate with.

As with all moral questions - turn the tables. If social media and today's extensive computerization had existed in 1984 - and the Soviets had used agitprop and fake news and phony troll accounts on the scale possible today to bias opinion against, and take down Ronald Reagan - and there were hints that Mondale's campaign had links of various kinds to the Soviets, wouldn't you have wanted the FBI and the CIA and the media to be all over that story? For as long as it took to find out the truth?

Sauce/goose/gander.

SASless 31st Oct 2017 00:14

Podesta quits and dissolves his Lobbying firm and in his announcement to Staff....said he would "fight this...." but do so as an individual....".

Now what is he going to fight folks?

I think he may have tipped his own hand BEFORE being Indicted by the Special Counsel.

Seems he got caught taking 2.2 Million Dollars in that money Manafort was sneaking into the country without paying taxes on it.

All very interesting in his choice of wording I would suggest.


“[Tony] was very magnanimous and said, “This is an amazing group of people,” a source said of Podesta’s remarks.

Podesta also told staff he “doesn’t intend to go quietly, or learn how to play golf.” He said he “needs to fight this as an individual, but doesn’t want the firm to fight it.”

Fritts also addressed the gathering, telling staff that she is “thrilled at this opportunity” and that, “This is not about me, this is about y’all.”

Several other senior staff spoke about their excitement about the future of the firm. The meeting ended with a standing ovation for Podesta.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/its-hap...podesta-group/

ethicalconundrum 31st Oct 2017 00:29

It's 7:30 'crat time in DC. And yet - and yet, it seems CNN doesn't even KNOW that Podesta closed his shop, and is ready to defend himself over,, something? They still have the Manafort-Trump blather all over their feed, and website. They don't seem to be right on top of these developments. Hmmmmm?

Manafort worked for Trump for what - half a year? Maybe less? He worked for the DNC and Dem lobbyists for YEARS. Including during the years of his alleged financial tomfoolery.

Turbine D 31st Oct 2017 01:06

Concours77
 

You're being dishonest.
I think you are getting your internet news from one or more of the Russian sponsored anti-Clinton sites, but don't recognize it.

Not much better than a ham sandwich, after all, eh?
Should the time comes, how would you like your ham sandwich?

I suspect you weren't around or old enough to see how Nixon was brought down and the time it took, "I am not a Crook" said Nixon early on. Even Merle Haggard wrote in one of his song's lyrics, "How Nixon lied to us on TV." Should be easy for Trump, he has had a lot of practice, lying. Stay tuned and in the meantime, read up on history as to how the FBI works to bring frauds and crooks to justice.:ok:

galaxy flyer 31st Oct 2017 01:08

We await President Pence, as does Turbine D.

GF

SASless 31st Oct 2017 04:00

"Follow the Money" is the Golden Rule for Criminal Investigators when performing Fraud, Bribery, Extortion, and Corruption cases.

It appears some Media Outlets are beginning to do that.

It makes one wonder if the Special Prosecutor named Mueller is doing the same now that Marc Elias got caught telling Porky Pies.

If the Independent Counsel is genuinely independent then he will have his Hounds sniffing out this trail of money!

Obama Campaign Paid $972,000 To Law Firm That Paid Fusion GPS

vapilot2004 31st Oct 2017 04:18


Originally Posted by obgraham (Post 9941635)
I await somebody -- anybody -- to explain to me how the Russians would manage to "rig" the election.

Long time no see, old friend.

If by "rig" you mean influence, there are literally reams of evidence pointing to Putin's intention to subvert the political systems of the United States. Multiple government intelligence agencies, and even members of Trump's party in Congress accept this as fact. Why do you resist?


You've got 50 separate state elections to try to influence. Good luck with that.
Actually this was done at the national level and all 50 states were never in play for the ill-chosen GOP candidate. In reality, Trump won thanks to relative handful of ill-informed voters in three rust belt states.


Now, on the other hand, Putin managed a lot more influence over the US by simply leaking out "we're trying to influence the election" while actually doing zilch.
Putin's a wily one, no doubt about that, but the evidence disclosed so far makes it obvious operatives on his behalf did much more than merely talk about undermining our democracy.

What really needs to happen is a revisitation of campaign finance reform, for it is the power-hungry members of both of our major political parties that are the biggest threat to undermining our democracy.

vapilot2004 31st Oct 2017 04:29


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 9941889)
"Follow the Money" is the Golden Rule for Criminal Investigators when performing Fraud, Bribery, Extortion, and Corruption cases.

Lordy, Lordy, don't say that too loudly, SASless.

A gander at Trump's financial dealings with Russian oligarchs and organized crime figures are sure to turn up more than a few trails worth following, some of which could lead to conspiracy and money laundering charges, just like his former campaign manager, currently under federal indictment for the same.

Such nefarious activities by Trump are not suppositions on my part. These sleazy real estate deals are already known to current and former members of the NY district Federal prosecutor's office, and could be something Mueller's team is already angling to have a closer look at.

By the way old friend o'mine, have you missed me? :)

chuks 31st Oct 2017 05:16

Said Tony Soprano never ....
 
"I wouldn't worry about finding out that Georgie the Greek pleaded out about a month ago. It's probably nothing to worry about, an insider ratting us out to the Feds. So, which is my sandwich, the one with the gabbagool?"

obgraham 31st Oct 2017 06:05

VAP:
You're just repeating the media nonsense:

If by "rig" you mean influence, there are literally reams of evidence pointing to Putin's intention to subvert the political systems of the United States. Multiple government intelligence agencies, and even members of Trump's party in Congress accept this as fact. Why do you resist?
Just HOW was Putin going to "subvert" the election? When I hear an explanation from you I'll stop resisting!

Was he going to stack the boxes? Buy the unions? Force all the Russian emigres in my town to vote his way? Shoot the Trump voters? Shoot the Clinton voters? He may well have had all the desire in the world to influence the election, but his Russkie techniques just won't be very effective in the USA!

ethicalconundrum 31st Oct 2017 06:55


Originally Posted by vapilot2004 (Post 9941891)
Putin's a wily one, no doubt about that, but the evidence disclosed so far makes it obvious operatives on his behalf did much more than merely talk about undermining our democracy.

What really needs to happen is a revisitation of campaign finance reform, for it is the power-hungry members of both of our major political parties that are the biggest threat to undermining our democracy.

Putin may be wily. As for Evidence disclosed? Please proceed. BTW, 'evidence' doesn't mean it was a story from an un-named source on CNN from the housemaid of the assistant WH chef.

BTW - we are not, and never have been a democracy. Another attempt to twist the narrative.

I agree that finance reform is needed. Perhaps we should start with OFA, which paid Fusion almost a million dollars in April 2016. Why would the DNC, under direction of Obama instruct Perkins Coie law firm to hire Fusion when OFA was BO's campaign operation, and BO was a lame duck in April 2016?

We have - OFA, the lobbying arm of Obama, being instructed by the DNC, to hire a law firm, to sub-let work to Fusion, who then hired the Brit hit man to come up with the lurid and so far unsubstantiated dossier on Trump. Plus, none of them bothered to report these payments under campaign finance laws already on the books. If that wasn't enough(it wasn't), HIllary's campaign, and the DNC paid Perkins Coie more than $10 mil in 2016 for "legal representation". Yes, indeed - campaign finance reform for all.

Obama Campaign Paid $972,000 To Law Firm That Paid Fusion GPS

vapilot2004 31st Oct 2017 10:34

EC, it is great to agree on something. :ok:

We all should know that opposition research is a legitimate tool in politics. While information gained could be used for nefarious purposes, there is no evidence whatsoever that the Clinton campaign did so.

Just as the dossier funding has been disingenuously scandalized, the OFA "scandal" is a distract and deflect tactic used by Trumpians now that the heat under their asses is on the rise with indictments on Team Trump beginning to roll out of Federal court.

Speaking of asses, and regarding your query on our current president's dirty deals with Russian mafia and other nefarious characters, the scant public information alone on private "deals" and his questionable business alliances tells us something stinks at the top of Trump tower and it ain't just coming from DT's personal gold throne.

Hempy 31st Oct 2017 12:20


Originally Posted by ethicalconundrum (Post 9941939)
Putin may be wily. As for Evidence disclosed? Please proceed. BTW, 'evidence' doesn't mean it was a story from an un-named source on CNN from the housemaid of the assistant WH chef.

BTW - we are not, and never have been a democracy. Another attempt to twist the narrative.

I agree that finance reform is needed. Perhaps we should start with OFA, which paid Fusion almost a million dollars in April 2016. Why would the DNC, under direction of Obama instruct Perkins Coie law firm to hire Fusion when OFA was BO's campaign operation, and BO was a lame duck in April 2016?

We have - OFA, the lobbying arm of Obama, being instructed by the DNC, to hire a law firm, to sub-let work to Fusion, who then hired the Brit hit man to come up with the lurid and so far unsubstantiated dossier on Trump. Plus, none of them bothered to report these payments under campaign finance laws already on the books. If that wasn't enough(it wasn't), HIllary's campaign, and the DNC paid Perkins Coie more than $10 mil in 2016 for "legal representation". Yes, indeed - campaign finance reform for all.

Obama Campaign Paid $972,000 To Law Firm That Paid Fusion GPS

Let me get this straight....Trump’s campaign chairman, and his deputy campaign chairman, have both been arrested and charged with (amongst other things) Conspiracy against the United States, being an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, and perjury. They have both allegedly been paid around 75 million dollars by Russians, which they then attempted to launder, and then lied about it to Federal authorities.

Meanwhile, Trumps foreign policy advisor pleads guilty to charges of making false statements (lying) to the FBI and admits to a conspiracy within the Trump campaign team to actively seek a relationship with members of the Russian government.

This is all just the tip of the iceberg. Registered Republican Mueller is reportedly investigating the entire Trump entourage. Up to and including Sean Hannity. And Papadopoulos has been wearing a wire....

And yet, according to you, the real crime was committed by the Democrats for legally paying an American company to perform research into Trumps dealings with the Russians? Who are you trying to convince? Yourself??

You should be thankful that you never met Jim Jones...

galaxy flyer 31st Oct 2017 12:57

Welcome back, VAPilot2004, glad to see your on board the Pence for President train with all the others. How’s fire season going in the disaster area known as California?

GF

SASless 31st Oct 2017 12:57

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d2&oe=5AA82C74

Hempy 31st Oct 2017 13:02

Try the orange koolaid SASless, it’s delicious.

Oh....wait....I see you’re on your fifth cup.

https://i.imgur.com/a4lULhu_d.jpg?ma...idelity=medium

p.s interesting idea galaxy flyer. Might be a bit of a stretch when Pence is cellmates with a 6”10 300lb black guy named Bubba..

galaxy flyer 31st Oct 2017 13:19

Let’s see Papadopolous plead guilty for lying to the FBI. What he was lying is about was meeting Russians who were dangling Hilary’s and the DNC’s hacked emails as dirt for the Trump campaign. Who’s stupidest here-the Trump bunch who had hired idiots to run a campaign; Hilary and the DNC for loose security or the Russians for thinking this oppo research was valuable. At the time of the meeting Papa had with the Russians everybody knew about the emails from the WikiLeaks releases.

While you all are bed wetting over the indictments, Manafort hasn’t pled to anything, so he ain’t cooperating.

GF


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