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-   -   A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/549775-usa-gun-thread-wont-controversial-will.html)

PTT 22nd Oct 2014 17:59

rgbrock1 - If you say so, but "never" is a hell of a word. I can think of any number of scenarios where people in bunkers receiving only the information they are given could be convinced to launch with the best interests of the American people at heart.

con-pilot - Yeah, Britmil is tiny in comparison. But then we're not the citizens pretending we'd ever have the capability to fight our military.

What's the relevance of the map of the US?

PTT 22nd Oct 2014 18:01

rgbrock1 - erm, I didn't say British military, and we are talking about now, not the time of muskets. Relevance failure?

obgraham 22nd Oct 2014 18:17

Living as I do in a "nucular" community (as some are wont to say it!) I can assure you all that those who designed, produced, and built our nuclear weapons and the materials within them that go bang-bang lean largely to the right. In the event of a government-versus-the-people conflict I'll side with the people.

Even if we have to dig some of them up to build some new weapons.

obgraham 22nd Oct 2014 18:19


Originally Posted by PTT (Post 8709029)
What's the relevance of the map of the US?

Look closely, PT -- casualty list might be high, but gonna require a large number of appliances to make a significant dent.

OFSO 22nd Oct 2014 18:20

As a contender for disparaging commentary, the above statement will take some beating even on JB. Would you care to clarify which side of the border the "slacker" and "workers " resided please ?

Right K & C.

1) I lived in Germany from 1968-1993, I speak German, I was heavily integrated into German society (German wife and family) and I know what I'm talking about.

2) West German society was based on working hard, banking your money, doing the right thing. I felt - as did every Germany - that my position in society could be easily compromised, hence little things such as sweeping the street in front of the house every week (yes, in a city) had to be done.

3) East German society was based on an immense supportive welfare state which encouraged and engendered inefficiency and idleness. The general attitude was "the state will take care of it".

4) When the Wall came down and the two societies were integrated we found East Germans unable to understand that if they didn't work they got dismissed; they they needed permission (always given but it had to be asked for) to visit the doctor or dentist; that they were not allowed to be absent for an entire day to get some paperwork stamped; that "having a job" meant (a) being there 08:00 - 17:00 and (b) working during those hours. "Working" as in "being productive".

5) Two years after the Wall came down I could not find one single West German who didn't wish it was back up again; more remarkably I spoke to several former East Germans in the West German town I lived in who said they wished the status quo could be restored, "but without the fear that the Stasi engendered".

6) Perhaps the most indicative markers for the period is when comparing the products of West German and East Germany for the period in question., both in terms of output and in quality. And if you reply that there was a waiting list for Mercedes in the West and a Trabbi in the East, I would agree - but on one side because an excellent product couldn't be made fast enough and, on the other sloth, indolence and inefficiency ruled the day.

And yes, I did travel; I visited areas where the French had bases; and I ate a lot of German food (which I consider pretty bland in Hessen, gets better further south). As for angling for a trip to the US, I've been there, I enjoyed it, but I have no plans whatsoever to go again.

Jeeze, listen to me ! I'm defending myself against someone like you.

I'm prepared to listen to your words on many things, when you know your stuff, but not when you talk from a position of total ignorance.

Lonewolf_50 22nd Oct 2014 18:32

I lived in West Germany as a child for six years. While I cannot tell you an adult experience, I do remember how thorough our German neighbors were in keeping their little bit of the neighborhood presentable. In order to maintain standards, my mother and father ensured that my older brother and I dutifully swept and kept clean our house and the sidewalk out front. Many is the day I swept the dirt/twigs/leaves into a pile and then into that container that would be picked up weekly with yard leavings.

I also remember how large those breasts looked when we wandered through the "clothing optional" sunbathing area by the local lake. :cool:

Our family were not allowed East of the border/Grenze due to my father's security-clearance-based travel restrictions, but most of my friends could cross the border and get their soccer shoes for 1/3 of what we paid on the Western side of the border. :uhoh:

Fond memories of West Germany.

Lonewolf_50 22nd Oct 2014 18:34

A USA gun thread:

What more is there to say by the usual participants that has not already been said? :confused:

con-pilot 22nd Oct 2014 18:38


con-pilot - Yeah, Britmil is tiny in comparison. But then we're not the citizens pretending we'd ever have the capability to fight our military.
Sorry, I spilled my bowl of popcorn when I read that one. You know what I was referring to, you are a very intelligent and articulate person, so please don't pretend you did not understand.

I was talking about the might of the British Empire and its massive military forces, compared to a bunch of ragtag rebels in the 1770s.

As for the map of the US and a "one good-sized nuclear warhead", that should be self-explanatory to a person of your intelligence.

Now Iíve got to pop more popcorn, thanks a lot. :rolleyes:

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 18:40

I lived in Oshkosh, Wisconsin for a few years, moving there from Detroit as a teenager. Oshkosh had a heavily German heritage majority in the late 1960s.

I was flabbergasted at how the people of Oshkosh washed the windows on their houses, kept the sidewalks clean, and frowned vocally on any perceived laziness or lack of community support. I hadn't seen much of that in Detroit.

Later, spending considerable time traveling through Germany, I was further amazed at how pedestrians observe the 'Do Not Walk' crosswalk lights, even when there is no oncoming traffic in sight.

goudie 22nd Oct 2014 18:41


that has not already been said?
Gonna be a case of 'Last Man Standing'



how pedestrians observe the 'Do Not Walk' crosswalk lights, even when there is no oncoming traffic in sight.
It's known as 'obeying orders' a German trait, I believe.

con-pilot 22nd Oct 2014 18:46


Gonna be a case of 'Last Man Standing'
I hope that happens soon goudie, I'm running out of popcorn.

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 18:48


Originally Posted by Gordy (Post 8708998)
. To be fair---YOU did NOT mention "sections" once, nor did you imply.

Didn't really need to as the fact of segregation is well known thanks to Rosa, or should it be Dushan?


So we have discovered she WAS at the FRONT of her section
My word...was "her" section the front or the back of the bus? She was sitting where she should have been.

Anyway, it's utterly ridiculous to compare legally owning guns to the achievements of Rosa Parks. It's even more stupid that someone with that kind if mental imbalance is allowed to own a gun.


No member of the U.S. Armed Forces would ever push the red button to detonate a nuclear device on American soil against American citizens. It just would never happen. Period.
Doesn't matter who presses the big red button, the effect will be the same.

PTT 22nd Oct 2014 18:55

In all honesty, regardless of how you think you might fight such a war I think you are nuts if you think you could win. I sincerely hope it never comes to that, and wish you luck if it does, but don't see any realistic hope of anything other than a massacre. To that end I can't see that reason as a viable one for having guns, but then I've not said that yours should be taken away.

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 19:26

Eastern Europeans also had no hope on paper of standing up to their totalitarian governments and the Soviet Union in the late 1980s. Yet Walesa and the Pope, Havel, and others prevailed, didn't they?

John Hill 22nd Oct 2014 19:31

So, let me think about this for a moment......

The American peasants rise up with their pitchforks and go to war against their government. There would soon after have to be a lot of losers roaming the world looking for a place to live but would they really integrate in with the population of the countries that might take them in?

Dushan 22nd Oct 2014 19:32


Originally Posted by rgbrock1 (Post 8708916)
As for the thread title, I have only this to add:

http://blog.jonolan.net/wp-content/u...ree-people.jpg

And in the words of Forrest Gump: "And that's all I have to say about that."

12,000 - 14,000 rounds in the drawer, Mr. RGB. I am good for a few days.

John Hill 22nd Oct 2014 19:33

Ben There

Eastern Europeans also had no hope on paper of standing up to their totalitarian governments and the Soviet Union in the late 1980s. Yet Walesa and the Pope, Havel, and others (including Osama) prevailed, didn't they?
You are singing from the wrong choir sheet there old man, according to your team the USSR was defeated by Saint Ronald Raygun.

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 19:34


would they really integrate in with the population of the countries that might take them in?
Easily, as they always have. Many parts of the world are still hospitable to the left wing. But why would the victors leave the homeland they just secured?


according to your team the USSR was defeated by Saint Ronald Raygun.
I never claimed President Reagan did it himself. It was a joint effort that included the brave Eastern Europeans, dating from the Hungarians of 1956, who continued their resistance until victory was in their grasp. Maggie Thatcher was key as well.

John Hill 22nd Oct 2014 19:34

http://blog.jonolan.net/wp-content/u...ree-people.jpg

I think someone forgot about the "disciplined" bit.

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 19:39


I think someone forgot about the "disciplined" bit.
You just don't have a clue about that, JH.


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