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-   -   A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/549775-usa-gun-thread-wont-controversial-will.html)

rh200 31st Oct 2014 03:06


UN are going to take the guns away which will solve all the problems.
The UN, the best thing the UN could do is set themselves up in Mosul.

Dushan 31st Oct 2014 03:13

UN couldn't organize a pissup in a brewery, much less "solve all the problems". UN and whose army is going to come on US soil and take private property. What do you think this is NZ?

John Hill 31st Oct 2014 03:42

It is all here:-


UN Document Or Not, the Plot to Disarm America Is Commencing

The evidence is mounting that Obama and his colleagues at the United Nations are preparing for complete gun confiscation of civilian owned American guns. There is a new document, previously held secret, which has surfaced and clearly signals the intention of the United Nations to engage in gun confiscation in the relatively near future. The document is damning, however, the existence of the document is not even needed to prove the point that there is a major confrontation brewing between the American people and an international peace-keeping UN force, and itís coming right around the corner.
The UN Plot to Confiscate American Guns | Dave Hodges ? The Common Sense Show

Caboclo 31st Oct 2014 03:49

No worries, everyone knows that UN peacekeepers are unarmed. :ugh:

BOING 31st Oct 2014 03:58

John,
I think you have this confused with the Nigerian Scammer thread.

Humorous try though.

.

obgraham 31st Oct 2014 05:55

Do you think New Zealand will send troops to participate in the confiscating?

If so, how will they get here? (Well, of course, Obama will send planes over to pick them up.)

John Hill 31st Oct 2014 06:04

The UN forces will obviously be travelling from their secret base in Antarctica in their Great White Fleet.

BOING 31st Oct 2014 06:24

Aahh!
Now we know what happened to MH370.

John Hill 31st Oct 2014 06:39

Not just MH370 but also American Airlines flight 77 which many, falsely, believe crashed into the Pentagon but was in fact flown to a UN submersible aircraft carrier and taken, along with passengers and crew, to the Antarctic base.

BOING 31st Oct 2014 07:09

Inner-City Violence in the Age of Mass Incarceration - The Atlantic

A three page long, well argued, comment on American crime (which incidentally shows gun deaths are reducing yearly in the US).

.

BOING 31st Oct 2014 07:13

Now John, that must be wrong. No sane person would lock themselves away in Antarctica with an American Airlines crew. Insanity.:)

.

Seldomfitforpurpose 31st Oct 2014 09:39


Originally Posted by Dushan (Post 8721774)
Rh, the problem with attacking and criticizing something near and dear to the left induces immediate cries of racism, homophobia, intolerance, etc. you see they "know" they are morally right and any opposition is morally bankrupt.

Just a thought but considering your entirely entrenched position on the 2nd do you not see the massive irony in your post? Someone has an opinion that does not line up with yours so therefore they are simply wrong? No debate here folks move along..........

As someone suggested there are plenty of folk sat in the middle on this one, folk who don't believe in banning but do believe things could be done a bit better. Trouble is, as this thread admirably demonstrates there are enough folk at either end of the debate unable to see that a compromise is required.

Look at the usual suspects in here with their usual intransigence and then ask yourself if you and they are any worse than the banners you ridicule?

You champion the oft trotted out 'it's not guns that kill people its people that kill people' which is in effect true but when asked how that issue could be addressed you simply lack the intellectual courage to debate it, primarily because you are frightened that to do so is a step in the 'wrong' direction.

Look no further than the Lanza case for a clear indication that the current method of doing guns is not fit for purpose. A system that allows a mother to keep guns in the same home as a mentally ill child, teach that mentally ill child to shoot.................

Banning guns is not the answer but simply doing nothing in the face of what is a blindingly obviously problem is also not the answer.

MagnusP 31st Oct 2014 11:06

Here's an idea. Why doesn't Obama ask the UN to take away the ILLEGALLY held guns; there's a start.

Incidentally, when did WW11 kick off? I missed 3-10. Who won?

ExXB 31st Oct 2014 11:47

In Switzerland, which has the worst gun death rate in Europe, the military was downsized a few years back. The number of the civilian militia was reduced by over 300,000 from one year to the next.

In other words 300,000 young men were not issued government supplied weapons (rifles and pistols). As everyone must know the civilian militia takes their guns home with them.

What happened over the next 10 years? The (total) gun death rate fell dramatically. But what was more interesting the (total - by all methods) suicide death rate also fell dramatically.

The availability of guns increases the number of gun deaths. It also increases the number of successful suicides.

More guns means more deaths.

Lonewolf_50 31st Oct 2014 13:32

Exxb: nobody gets out of life alive. You are aware of that, right?
People die every day. Here, I'll give you a tissue ...

BOING 31st Oct 2014 14:04

Exxb

If we follow the "more guns equals more deaths" argument then the US, with on figure of 9 guns for every 10 people should have a much higher death rate than it actually has. The absolute number of guns in a country does not correlate to the death rate.

You have to do some calculations because the data is not usually produced in the form we want but:
Switzerland has 45 guns per 100 head of population.
US has 90 guns per 100 head of population.
Swiss population is 8,000,000
US population is 320,000,000
Therefore absolute number of guns in Switzerland is 3,600,000.
Absolute number of guns in the US is 288,000,000

Therefore the annual rate of deaths per gun in the US should be 80 times the rate in Switzerland, it is not. The Us death rate by guns is about 3 times the rate for Switzerland, nothing to boast about but there is clearly no direct correlation between the number of available guns and the death rate. It is time we put that old chestnut to rest.


.

rgbrock1 31st Oct 2014 14:29

John Hill wrote:


t is a bit of a pointless argument anyway as the UN are going to take the guns away which will solve all the problems.
What a joke that statement is. The UN has nothing to say about anything, not worthwhile anyway, and certainly nothing to say about an American Constitutional right. I'd like the see the UN try.

rgbrock1 31st Oct 2014 14:31

John Hill wrote:


Not just MH370 but also American Airlines flight 77 which many, falsely, believe crashed into the Pentagon but was in fact flown to a UN submersible aircraft carrier and taken, along with passengers and crew, to the Antarctic base.
I see LSD is readily obtainable in New Zealand.

Seldomfitforpurpose 31st Oct 2014 14:36


Originally Posted by BOING (Post 8722346)
The absolute number of guns in a country does not correlate to the death rate.


Not sure he said that, just that the more guns there the more gun deaths there are............

Lonewolf_50 31st Oct 2014 16:05


Originally Posted by bcgallacher (Post 8721722)
Lone wolf - you are getting a little desperate- the term ' no kidding minority' is new to me If it is some king of technical term I would be grateful to have it explained to me As far as your mention of problems in the military I recall that during WW 11 the British government informed the US government that the segregation policies of the US army were not acceptable in the UK.

Which didn't stop the UK from accepting American help in WW II, nor from stationing soldiers, sailors and airmen there during and after the war.

I see a desperate bc gallacher clutching at straws, and whiffing again.

You've got nothing, why don't you put a lid on it?

Lonewolf_50 31st Oct 2014 16:07

SFFP, you will also note that the more people there are, the more deaths there are.
See my point to exxb up above: no one here gets out alive.

Seldomfitforpurpose 31st Oct 2014 16:16

So you agree with more guns = more gun deaths assertion?

Progress is indeed being made.

con-pilot 31st Oct 2014 16:43


UN are going to take the guns away which will solve all the problems.

So that is what all those black helicopters have been doing around here. I shall take the necessary precautions.

Thank you for the warning John! :ok:



Now, where did I install that button that lowers my house into an underground shelter?

rgbrock1 31st Oct 2014 16:50

con-pilot:

Those black helicopters you see have nothing to do with the UN. Those same black helos have US Army Rangers in them. I sent them to merely keep an eye out for your welfare.

You're welcome. :ok::}

con-pilot 31st Oct 2014 17:07


You're welcome.
Too late, I've already pushed the button and the house is being lowered as I type this.

I'll lose my internet conect

Dushan 31st Oct 2014 22:40

People, lleave con-pilot alone. He is in mourning.

Liquor store shelf collapse in Whitehorse spills $50K ? mostly fine scotch - North - CBC News

nomorecatering 1st Nov 2014 03:09

Some facts that have come to light in recent times.

Since the Sandy Hook elementary school massacre;

80 school shootings where greater than 1 person has been killed.

Greater than 100 other mass shootings.

Now the reasons stated for committing these atrocities.

1. Being fired from your job

2. Being dumped by a girl.

3. Not being invited to a party.

4. Teacher giving a fail grade on a paper.

5. Missing out on a promotion at work

6. Not having any friends.

7. Not being able to get laid.

8 Overcharged in a supermarket.

Can anyone see a pattern here? The problem is not with someone going to a gun range and blasting away at targets with your AK47. It's not about people going to the Great Sandy Machine Gun shoot.

There is a serious problem in US society, where the slightest problem can result in someone walking down a street killing random strangers.

The rest of the world is getting tired of hearing about "armed citizenry keeping the government honest". That was only true in the day of the musket.

As for self defence, in the last 3 years, there has been 16,000 accidental shootings in homes where kids have found a loaded gun in the house. 5000 deaths as a result. Think about those numbers.

You can argue as long as you like about Switzerland having guns, how many school shootings, or mass shootings have they had in the last 5 years....or even 50 years. The Swiss bristle with guns, yet no one seems to feel the need to blast away at a class of 5 year olds because some girl dumped them. One could suggest there is a vast difference in the maturity of the Swiss and US cultures.

Something needs to be addressed. How many shootings will there be in the future.

I'm sure the founding fathers of the USA would weep if they knew what has become of the USA.

bcgallacher 1st Nov 2014 04:03

Nomorecatering - your post is definitely one of the most intelligent that has appeared here.Be prepared to have that intelligence insulted by the usual suspects.

bcgallacher 1st Nov 2014 04:11

Lone wolf 50 I am still waiting to be informed as to the meaning of the term ' no kidding minority' as I am sure are a few others.The relevance of your last post also escapes me.

Dushan 1st Nov 2014 04:14


Originally Posted by nomorecatering (Post 8723252)

The rest of the world is getting tired of hearing about "armed citizenry keeping the government honest". That was only true in the day of the musket.


Something needs to be addressed. How many shootings will there be in the future.


The rest of the world is free to not engage, come, participate, or suggest course of action in America and for Americans.

The second sentence sounds awfully like telling Americans what to do.

bcgallacher 1st Nov 2014 06:52

Dushan - as you do not seem to have much of an idea on how to reduce the mass killing of your fellow citizens are you not open to ideas from outside?

BOING 1st Nov 2014 06:57

It's great isn't it? These people who are going to tell the World how to behave can't even protect their own children. Hardly a great recommendation for their involvement.

Perhaps the reason they make such an effort to interfere in other people's lives is because they are so powerless to change their own.

.

Lord Spandex Masher 1st Nov 2014 07:13


Originally Posted by Dushan (Post 8723281)
The second sentence sounds awfully like telling Americans what to do.

So? When people are ignorant of the problem and the solution they often need guidance.

John Hill 1st Nov 2014 07:21


Originally Posted by BOING
Therefore the annual rate of deaths per gun in the US should be 80 times the rate in Switzerland, it is not. The Us death rate by guns is about 3 times the rate for Switzerland, nothing to boast about but there is clearly no direct correlation between the number of available guns and the death rate. It is time we put that old chestnut to rest.

Where does that figure of 80 times come from? By the figures you supplied there are about twice as many guns per n population in the US than Switzerland and as one would expect the greater density of guns brings with it a higher rate of gun deaths, which it does, three times in this example.

bcgallacher 1st Nov 2014 08:22

There is a correlation in as much as the US has many more guns in its society than any other OECD country, it also has many more gunshot victims. If the number of guns is not relevant to gunshot deaths would you say that if the number of guns in US society by some strange chance was reduced to say 1000 do you think there would still be 30,000 gunshot deaths per year? If the number was reduced to 1 million guns do you think that there would still be 30,000 deaths? The real problem I have with those that want unfettered gun ownership is the complete lack of any kind of compassion or desire to reduce the carnage - look at the disruption caused by Ebola,how many have died in the US? There are 80 deaths per day on average from gunshot in the US,in any other circumstance it would be called an epidemic.Until now I have not seen a single practical suggestion to reduce the killing - the reason for that is there is no solution in as much as the guns are there and cannot be removed. There is a trite saying the gun lobby trots out ' if guns are made illegal only criminals have guns' The strange thing is that is the situation that we have in the UK - have a look at our gunshot deaths per year - about 70 If the USA had the same per capita deaths it would be about 450 not 30,000. The number of guns has nothing to do with the high incidence of gunshot deaths? If it is not the number of guns what is the reason.? We have proportionally the same number of violent nut cases in our society - the only difference is few of them have access to a firearm.

PTT 1st Nov 2014 08:52


Therefore the annual rate of deaths per gun in the US should be 80 times the rate in Switzerland, it is not. The Us death rate by guns is about 3 times the rate for Switzerland, nothing to boast about but there is clearly no direct correlation between the number of available guns and the death rate. It is time we put that old chestnut to rest.
That's not what correlation means. An 80-fold increase in guns could be double the death rate and it would still be a correlation. If we're talking about linear correlations then the basic formula is A = xB + y where A and be are the factors under investigation and x is the factor between them, with y the "base rate" (which can be negative) when A = 0.

bcgallacher 1st Nov 2014 09:12

Boing I did it amusing that you raise the point about child protection when your children are shot in industrial quantities on a regular basis without any real attempt to reduce the numbers.

John Hill 1st Nov 2014 10:02

I don't think school massacres are seen as really important compared to keeping themselves tooled up and prepared to fend off tyranny and oppression.

Seldomfitforpurpose 1st Nov 2014 10:45


Originally Posted by John Hill (Post 8723443)
I don't think school massacres are seen as really important compared to keeping themselves tooled up and prepared to fend off tyranny and oppression.

And that is the sad truth in all of this.

If you ask Brick, Con, RG, Dushan, Lonewolf etc if they would be prepared to give a little with regards to Gun Law they will collectively shout NO! For them the 2nd is an enshrined entitlement that cannot be interfered with no matter what the cost is in human life.

Until they change or are forced to change that thought process the slaughter will continue, I thought it a rather sad indictment of the global attitude to US school killings in that I had no idea that since Sandy Hook there had been 80 more school shootings where kids were killed. Clearly it's such a run of the mill occurrence it is no longer news worthy.

bcgallacher 1st Nov 2014 13:30

SFP - I think it is just a case of pure selfishness - I want to play with my toys,I don't give a shit who gets killed or mutilated.The usual 'its to defend my family' and ' in case the government wants to oppress us ' is so idiotic that surely they do not believe it themselves? There is one who shall be nameless who seems to be positively orgasmic at the thought of killing an intruder


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