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-   -   A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/549775-usa-gun-thread-wont-controversial-will.html)

Pappa Smurf 28th Oct 2014 22:05

John,
Most of those hold ups were with replicas.

con-pilot 28th Oct 2014 22:08


Must try it one day.
Let me know when you try, I'll come down and put in a good word for you with the Border Patrol. I still have contacts with them from the old days.

If you get caught that is, good chance you will not. :ok:

Oh, I'll tell them not to shoot, so you've got that working for you. ;)

Dushan 28th Oct 2014 22:08


Originally Posted by John Hill (Post 8717988)
I thought you might enjoy reading it!

And don't forget the other one, over which we send copious amounts of snow, ice, and cold, just for RGB.

gupta 28th Oct 2014 22:11

Oh dear, supposition again

Most of those hold ups were with replicas.
Care to give some actual data on that one Smurf?

wings folded 28th Oct 2014 22:15


If you get caught that is, good chance you will not.
Odds are better than at Logan, then?

con-pilot 28th Oct 2014 22:21


Odds are better than at Logan, then?
Anyplace is better than Boston Logan, even when in a corporate jet.

Trust me on this.

pigboat 28th Oct 2014 22:35


And don't forget the other one, over which we send copious amounts of snow, ice, and cold, just for RGB.
And here's a warm-up pitch. :E

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...bd&oe=54E57ED8

BenThere 28th Oct 2014 22:51

Thanks for the statistical graphing, PTT.:ok: Very nicely done and presented.

One thing I've been saying all along is that the America I live in is as safe as anywhere, and I contend that fact is cultural, fortified by the fact that my America is also legally, heavily armed to keep it that way.

Our Democrat-run urban nightmares are violent hell-holes. The thugs have guns, are constantly searching for prey, and many decent people are caught up in it and can't afford to escape. They have the additional burden of gun control. That's how it is. Yet they keep voting for the same Democrats. It's a conundrum to me.

galaxy flyer 29th Oct 2014 01:06

PTT,

Those charts do not indicate that the hand gun ban did the square root of squat to violence or illegal gun use. And, if it was so effective, why is the rates so much higher than the '70s rates.

US murder rates have been cut in half since "shall issue" laws made gun carriage more accessible here.

GF

obgraham 29th Oct 2014 04:20


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 8718381)
PTT,

US murder rates have been cut in half since "shall issue" laws made gun carriage more accessible here.

No, no GF, murder rates are down because of the effective 12-step programs the government has run to re-educate those misguided youth of our inner cities. And the job training programs to turn drug sellers into 4-star chefs.

bcgallacher 29th Oct 2014 05:22

I note with amusement Dushans comment regarding Channel Islands border guards. A few guards with handguns would really have made a big difference to the German invasion - would have scared the Wehrmacht shitless. If you want to prove a point use a credible argument,most of the readers here are reasonably intelligent.

mixture 29th Oct 2014 07:29


nice try. The statistics were provided by the British Home Office. Not exactly a US-operated pro-gun website, eh?
No, they were supposedly taken from the British Home Office ... but they were massaged into a graph and other information presented on a pro-gun, US operated website, so quite frankly I'm going to take any information from there with a very large pinch of salt. At the very best it is trying to make mountains out of molehills.

You know you're just digging yourself into a large hole by trying to say the UK has a gun problem. It doesn't, I know you know that. The only place with a gun problem is the US, the rest of the world can see that, only the Americans can't ! The US has had a school shooting almost every single month for god knows how many years ! How many school shootings in the UK ? Hell, how many people in the UK have been slaughtered at schools using other weapons ? Exactly ..... the US is the place that has the problems, not the UK.

Stop clutching at your straws and admit your country has a problem that needs to be dealt with. Throwing more guns at the problem is not going to help, nor is refusing to impose any restrictions or checks on gun ownership.

PTT 29th Oct 2014 07:50

galaxy flyer - I don't believe I said anything was down to a handgun ban. All I said was that I would be interested in knowing how many in that peak between ~'98 and ~'08 were offences of possession which would not otherwise have been offences before the ban. Only then can we know what the actual crime rate was. The "homicides committed" chart gives us a clue, because it is (very) roughly the same shape as the offences chart, but I'd want more than an eyeballing of two different charts to start trying to draw any conclusions.
As for comparison with the '70s, that kind of thing is dependent on worldwide trends as well. Are guns generally more available, cheaper etc, and is the change slower in the UK than elsewhere. You can't draw such conclusions from one chart.

US murder rates have been cut in half since "shall issue" laws made gun carriage more accessible here.
Have you got some data for that assertion at all?

BenThere - you're welcome. The data says what the data says.

the America I live in is as safe as anywhere
What do you mean by "the America [you] live in"?

Hempy 29th Oct 2014 08:13


Originally Posted by John Hill
I think it's...

Source, please.

Lon More 29th Oct 2014 08:18

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...psdba8fb89.jpg

John Hill 29th Oct 2014 09:16

Hempy, it is attributed to Ed Chenel, an Australian police officer.

¡Sq ,sɹǝlpuoɟ unƃ llɐ sᴉ ʇᴉ ʞuᴉɥʇ I ʇnq

BenThere 29th Oct 2014 12:00


What do you mean by "the America [you] live in"?
It's typical America.

I live in an outer ring suburb of Detroit. Every large American city has suburbs like mine, where people moved to escape the rot of the inner city.

It's prosperous, working class, safe. People of all backgrounds and races want to, and do, live here. Canton votes Republican. I lifted these demographics from wiki:


The U.S. Census Bureau also defined Canton Township as a census-designated place (CDP) at the 2000 Census so that the community would appear on the list of places (like cities and villages) as well on the list of county subdivisions (like other townships). The final statistics for the township and the CDP were identical.

As of the census[1] of 2010, there were 90,173 people, 32,771 households, and 24,231 families residing in the township. The population density was 2,121.5 per square mile (819.0/km²). There were 34,829 housing units at an average density of 789.8 per square mile (304.9/km²). The racial makeup of the township was 72.2% White, 10.2% African American, 0.2% Native American, 14.1% Asian (8.0% Indian, 2.2% Chinese, 0.7% Filipino, 0.4% Korean, 0.3% Japanese, 0.3% Vietnamese, 2.2% Other Asian), 0.0% Pacific Islander, 0.7% from other races, and 1.91% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 3.1% of the population.

There were 27,490 households out of which 42.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 63.4% were married couples living together, 8.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 25.2% were non-families. 20.5% of all households were made up of individuals and 4.8% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.77 and the average family size was 3.26. The median household price was $239,900 according to the U.S. Census Bureau's 2006 American Community Survey estimates.[19]

In the township the population was spread out with 29.0% under the age of 18, 8.0% from 18 to 24, 34.9% from 25 to 44, 22.1% from 45 to 64, and 5.9% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 33 years. For every 100 females there were 98.0 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 96.2 males.

According to a 2007 estimate, the median income for a household in the township was $82,669, and the median income for a family was $95,267.[20] Males had a median income of $61,570 versus $35,615 for females. The per capita income for the township was $28,609. About 2.9% of families and 3.7% of the population were below the poverty line, including 4.2% of those under age 18 and 5.5% of those age 65 or over.

Canton Township, MI - Official Website | Official Website

rgbrock1 29th Oct 2014 12:07

mixture wrote:


The only place with a gun problem is the US, the rest of the world can see that, only the Americans can't !
The US has a gun problem? that's odd because I have no problem at all in adding to my growing arsenal. I wonder why that might be?

Lon More 29th Oct 2014 12:40

http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/s.../explosion.jpg

the ultimate private weapon, it's not rocket science

rh200 29th Oct 2014 12:43


the ultimate private weapon, it's not rocket science
Actually I was implying that somewhere, whats the limit? And if you can limit some, why not others? Silence:p

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 12:54

The limit?

Philosophically, there shouldn't be one.

Practically, the "reasonable man" theory would be my argument.

Unfortunately, we have reached the stage where common sense is defined differently.

If I harm you, I should be punished is one camp.

If I don't harm you, but I possess something you don't like, you should be able to punish me, is the other camp.

And the lawyers get rich because of it.

Bottom line, my nation's foundational document gave a list of inherent rights that exist simply because I do as an American citizen.

The resulting government formed FROM that agreement and resulting document does not have the jurisdiction to remove any of those inherent rights unless I do something to abrogate my possession of those rights.

That same agreement and foundation provides a means whereby the American citizens can alter the contract should they deem it necessary.

After 230+ years, those inherent rights remain untouched.

Despite attempts by power-hungry control freaks to make it otherwise.

A good deal of common sense and insight into human behavior by those Founding Fathers.

rgbrock1 29th Oct 2014 12:58

Common sense? Founding fathers? Oh, and so much more.

http://www.bobdorigojones.com/wp-con...mmon-Sense.jpg

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 13:00

Ironically, written by an Englishman.

As were all the now-Patriots.

Funny, that.

rgbrock1 29th Oct 2014 13:11

Not all brick. Many were indeed Englishman by birth. But some of the more esteemed men were not: Thomas Jefferson was born in Shadwell, VA. General of the Armies* George Washington was born in Westmoreland County, VA. James Madison, VA. Patrick Henry, VA, etc.

As far as the Patriots and Founders were concerned, the common denominator was a birthplace in the then colony of Virginia.

* I recently learned, which I had not known previously, the Omar Bradley was a five-star General.

421dog 29th Oct 2014 13:14

I am given to understand that Gen. Washington was posthumously awarded a 6th star to ensure that no future officer would outrank him.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 13:17

Err, I do believe that the colonists thought themselves "English," with their rights therein being abused by George III, hence their initial attempts to redress the offences prior to declaring independence.

Regardless, they thought the rights inherent simply for existing worth fighting for and enshrining in the agreement to form the United States of America.

So that, unless the majority of the states and/or the citizens voted for themselves to toss those rights away, no government could decide it knew best regarding those specific rights.

Although the 'enumerated' powers sure seems to be taking a beating in recent years.






In the precedence of "General of the Armies," five-star rank, Washington is given seniority, Pershing next, then the WWII bubbas.

421dog 29th Oct 2014 13:20

I defer to your superior knowledge of the situation.
A bit of reading shows that Washington never wore more than 3 stars, and this order was bicentennial rigamarole.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rders_31-3.jpg

rgbrock1 29th Oct 2014 13:33

421dog:

Correct, George Washington never obtained a rank above a 3-star/Lt. General which he obtained, coincidentally, on 4 July 1798.

The title of "General of the Armies of the United States" was posthumously bestowed upon him in Jan 1976. And rightfully so.

http://acheritagegroup.org/blog/wp-c...ley-Forge1.jpg

Dushan 29th Oct 2014 14:11


Originally Posted by rgbrock1 (Post 8719069)
mixture wrote:



The US has a gun problem? that's odd because I have no problem at all in adding to my growing arsenal. I wonder why that might be?

My guns must be totally defective. I should have them checked, because despite what all the lefties tell me how guns are evil and killers of children, mine have never hurt anyone, much less killed someone.

rgbrock1 29th Oct 2014 14:33

The only long gun I have which has been fired in anger is a .22 which was used to do away with a rather irksome coon. Got sick and tired of picking up the trash from the road after his nightly dumpster diving routine.

bcgallacher 29th Oct 2014 14:37

A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it?
 
Dushan you have never shot any children YET - every gunman that committed a school massacre was in the same position as you at one time. In the future you may or may not have some kind of mental breakdown - none of us can predict our future physical or mental health.

421dog 29th Oct 2014 14:53

At some point, one must take the history of an individual as a bonafide.

If someone is an upstanding member of the community, has demonstrated his responsibility through gainful employment and avoidance of entanglements with the legal or mental health establishments, and evinces a desire to carry a weapon, who are we to say otherwise?

It is clear that such people are markedly less likely to be involved in felonious conduct with firearms than are members of law enforcement.

Lord Spandex Masher 29th Oct 2014 15:04


Originally Posted by Rosa Parks
My guns must be totally defective. I should have them checked, because despite what all the lefties tell me how guns are evil and killers of children, mine have never hurt anyone, much less killed someone.

No, guns are inanimate remember? You cannot guarantee that you, or somebody, else won't injure or kill someone with your guns though.

MagnusP 29th Oct 2014 15:11

Dushan, my Browning Medalist was lethal. After a safety check at the range, I was removing the magazine from where it was holding the slide open, and I caught my fingertip in the slide. These things are clearly overdue for banning.

Lonewolf_50 29th Oct 2014 15:14

LSM, if you are so fearful, then you might be advised to not own any guns.
Not everyone shares your irrational fears.

Dushan 29th Oct 2014 15:14


Originally Posted by MagnusP (Post 8719296)
Dushan, my Browning Medalist was lethal. After a safety check at the range, I was removing the magazine from where it was holding the slide open, and I caught my fingertip in the slide. These things are clearly overdue for banning.

Ouch, sounds like a bad case of blood blister.

rgbrock1 29th Oct 2014 15:14

Magnus:

The Browning Medalist is a fine piece of iron indeed. Being a long gun kinda guy myself I own but one hand gun.

http://www.mkwhy.com/wp-content/uplo...3/08/22255.jpg

Dushan 29th Oct 2014 15:16


Originally Posted by 421dog (Post 8719278)
At some point, one must take the history of an individual as a bonafide.

If someone is an upstanding member of the community, has demonstrated his responsibility through gainful employment and avoidance of entanglements with the legal or mental health establishments, and evinces a desire to carry a weapon, who are we to say otherwise?

It is clear that such people are markedly less likely to be involved in felonious conduct with firearms than are members of law enforcement.

As long as they don't find out the number of posts I make in JB I am OK.

Dushan 29th Oct 2014 15:18


Originally Posted by rgbrock1 (Post 8719307)
Magnus:

The Browning Medalist is a fine piece of iron indeed. Being a long gun kinda guy myself I own but one hand gun.

http://www.mkwhy.com/wp-content/uplo...3/08/22255.jpg

Err, Mr. RGB, "Made in Japan"? A replica?

mixture 29th Oct 2014 15:20


Dushan you have never shot any children YET - every gunman that committed a school massacre was in the same position as you at one time. In the future you may or may not have some kind of mental breakdown - none of us can predict our future physical or mental health.

Yup, and if you're the US where pretty much any Tom,Dick or Harry can buy a gun without any sort of substantial restriction, and you allow gun numbers to grow and grow with no thought, then you substantially increase the prospect of people going crazy..... as is demonstrated on a monthly basis at US schools.


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