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-   -   Scottish independence Hamsterwheel. (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/541819-scottish-independence-hamsterwheel.html)

500N 5th Jul 2014 08:05

Mfc

Exactly, on both points.

If you don't want an opinion on a subject, don't post on a public forum,
Go to another scottish yes forum.

In any case, it seems quite ok for uk based anti gun lefties to post on the us politics thread and any thread discussing the us gun laws ????


Atom,
I couldn't give a shyte what you think of my posting, i will keep posting my views and wold even put money on my views being correct and what the result will be.

Seem the yes voters wont take a wager on the result ?



Now, IF someone, including Salmond, is to put a sensible, fully costed plan forward that shows iScotland would be better, I would not hesitate to support it.


Australia went through a similar debate a few years ago, the exct sme thing happened, the YES could not put forward a clear, concise reasons for why rAustralia would be better than what we have now.

That is another reason I am interested in the Scottish referendum.

perthsaint 5th Jul 2014 08:06

MFC,

I've never claimed that it is.:p

I can do arithmetic though....:ok:

JFZ90 5th Jul 2014 08:22


I don't really get this phrase "the break - up of the UK". Yes, it's emotive which is why bt use it, but it's hardly accurate.
It is entirely accurate when considering the current union of a vast range of issues, spanning defence, currency, economy etc.

It is bewildering how someone engaged in this debate can seemingly ignore the consequences of separation, and the impact it will have on everyone in the UK.

This seems to stem from a misguided belief that an iScot would somehow keep all the good bits of the UK but somehow "be much better at the same time".

No-one, least of all the SNP, have been able to articulate how on earth that would work, as it won't. They never will be able to.

You should realise this is why the SNP wanted devo-max on the ballet paper - as they knew full independence in real terms has a business case that just does not stand up to any scrutiny.

500N 5th Jul 2014 08:23

But I might choose to come and live right near you :O

What do i do ?

Counter the bs coming out of the yes camp ! :p

Somehow I have got up your goat and you are now playing the man, not the ball.


We will see who is right on the 18th, then either you or I will hve to eat our words.

Sallyann1234 5th Jul 2014 10:12

I was at a meeting yesterday with engineers from the electricity supply industry. When I asked about the Scottish issue they laughed.

It seems that iScot has the choice of either splitting off from the UK national grid, installing connectors and building their own national control centre, or continuing to have their national grid controlled from Berkshire.

The first option is too complex and expensive to even consider, the second option means that yet another vital national interest will be controlled by a foreign country.

And the SNP still talks about 'independence' as if was even possible.

No wonder they laughed.

Seldomfitforpurpose 5th Jul 2014 10:37


Originally Posted by AtomKraft (Post 8549863)
500N.

Are you a Scot?

Do you have to be a Scot to vote?

In fact could you be a 16 year old Australian resident in Scotland and have a vote?

JFZ90 5th Jul 2014 13:16

Here is a good argument to stay together*

Britain's economy forecast to stay on global A-list | Business | The Guardian


* note Atomkraft this should not be construed as telling you what to do, you are free to ignore professional assessments of the future outlook of our currently unified Nation, just as the SNP do.

AtomKraft 5th Jul 2014 14:30

500.
Your message box is full.
If you clear a few, you'll get a pm from me. ;)

500N 5th Jul 2014 14:36

Atom,
Thanks.
Done.

MFC_Fly 5th Jul 2014 14:58


Originally Posted by perthsaint (Post 8550035)
MFC,

I've never claimed that it is.:p

I can do arithmetic though....:ok:

Really? Are you sure? I am certain a part of arithmetic is division, so what division did you do to get your result of the UK being 1/3rd smaller? :confused:

Trossie 5th Jul 2014 16:51

On the straight arithmetic I have to side with 'perthsaint' in one aspect of this only:

UK = 94,060 square miles
Scotland = 30,414 square miles

30,414 divided by 94,060 = 0.3233 which is pretty close to one third.

However, the United Kingdom is the union of the monarchies of England and Scotland (by the accession of a Scottish king!). The SNP's grand plan is that the Queen (monarch at the head of the UK) will still remain the Queen of Scotland, so it will still be a United Kingdom of 94,060 square miles, even if they do become 'independent'. There will be no 'remainder of the UK', it will still all be one UK. All the nats really want is for their parliament to be divorced from the 'English' parliament, but in almost every other aspect of life as these pages have shown (defence, currency, electricity and so on and on...) they will still be dependent on, and part of, the UK. And because they would have pulled their MPs out of the Westminster parliament that will be a Tory led UK, with the Scots no longer having any influence there.

Is that really what the people of Scotland need or want?

Seldomfitforpurpose 5th Jul 2014 20:41

More opinions from more genuine Scots folk with a vote

Scotstoun: where Scottish independence feels like a threat | Politics | The Guardian

AtomKraft 6th Jul 2014 01:56

10W
This is a vote for our independence.

It's not a vote for lifetime rule by Salmond.

Salmond, or the SNP or any other political party can be voted out by the electorate.
But in an iScotland, democracy has a better chance of serving the electorate than it has at the moment.
Right now Scots get whatever the UK majority vote for, not what they vote for themselves.

Voting no because 'I don't like that Alec Salmond' is cutting off ones nose to spite ones face.

10Watt 6th Jul 2014 02:08

Atom K
 
you couldn`t be more wrong.

just keep steady in the ranks.

scots make up most of our political classes, you had the previous P.M.

and his deputy.

What more do you want ?

500N 6th Jul 2014 02:12

Atom,

I don't disagree with you, in fact I'll say I agree with you re
"This is a vote for our independence.
It's not a vote for lifetime rule by Salmond."


The problem is, this is 2014, where everyone is moving 1000 miles an hour, 30 second TV grab, image is everything and the SNP stuck Salmond and his deputy as the image they want to portray and people aren't buying it.

It is irrelevant that they may be voted out in a general election not long after the Referendum vote because people don't see that far ahead.

Maybe not having strong leaders on the other side of politics doesn't help.

The psychology of people !

500N 6th Jul 2014 02:36


What more do you want ?
iScotland, as proposed by Alex "I'm right, you're wrong" Salmond :O

(Not sure what he is proposing as the plan looks like Swiss cheese but vote for it anyway, she'll be right mate, jump off the cliff with me :p ;))

Seldomfitforpurpose 6th Jul 2014 03:33


Originally Posted by 10Watt (Post 8551060)

lf l could get my hands on those ..................

What...............

MFC_Fly 6th Jul 2014 04:40


Originally Posted by AtomKraft (Post 8551012)
But in an iScotland, democracy has a better chance of serving the electorate than it has at the moment.

Right now Scots get whatever the UK majority vote for, not what they vote for themselves.

That is what is known as democracy. Does the UK always get what it wants in the EU elections? Does Scotland or Wales or NI or Yorkshire or Cornwall or Norfolk always get what the majority vote for in UK General elections? Does the Borders, Highlands, Shetland, Fife always get what the majority vote for in Scottish elections? Does Dingwall, Dalbeattie, Tobermory always get what the majority vote for? Do the residents of Hill Street, Ferry Road, Galla Avenue always get what the majority of them vote for? Does Mr McTavish, Mrs Davies, Miss Fanshw-Smythe always get what they want? No, they don't always get what they want.

So the idea of reducing the size of the voting population just to get what you want is a bit of a poor reason to risk everything on the dream of a few bigots. Maybe the Highlands can cut themselves off to get what the majority of Highlanders want, maybe Dingwall can then cut itself off because the Highlands return a result they don't like? Then Hill Street can cut itself off from Dingwall because the majority of residents there voted differently to the rest of the town. Then Mr McTavish decides he is going it alone because he doesn't agree with the rest of Hill Street?

<All characters in this post are purely fictional and any resemblance to real people, either living or dead, is purely coincidental ;) >

:ugh:

500N 6th Jul 2014 04:55


That is what is known as democracy.
Exactly.

Except I don't think the Yes camp will accept the result, whether it is 49% Yes and 51% No or 30% Yes and 70% No.

Regardless, they will just continue pushing for iScotland.

AtomKraft 6th Jul 2014 05:19

People who live in Scotland. Age 16+

Ex pats, like me, who have a postal vote.

I think that's it.

Here's an alternative idea to independence.

Let's let Scotland rule England for a while! We'll sell off Westminster and run the country from Edinburgh.
Maybe 500N will lead a crusade for Australia to renounce it's independence and rejoin the Empire!

Democracy in the UK barely functions these days- especially not for the Scots.

Scotland will be well served WHEN she gains her independence.


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