PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

megan 19th Nov 2015 06:19

You might have given us the full speech SOPS ;)

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, chuboy? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

Pinky the pilot 19th Nov 2015 08:22

Thank you Megan!:ok: Although I think that you were remarkably restrained in your post.

I just wish I had the scanner and the knowhow to reproduce a cartoon published in the Australian Newspaper quite some time ago, but it went like this....

There is a bloke 'standing on a soapbox' and in front of him is a bloke wearing a "Getup' T shirt, saying to the orator on the soapbox

'Who gave you the right to spout such drivel??'

Behind the getup person is the statue of the WWI and II Digger with 303 rifle at parade rest who quietly says

"I did."

chuboy 19th Nov 2015 08:59

Well, I can see my remarks have upset a few people. Apologies for riling you all up, no I haven't forgotten why we have free speech. But, having read over what I said I am not sure that those remarks have been taken in context. I have not once "knocked" the people who gave their lives or their health to serve in wars. (But at the same time, it was their job and they knew that when they signed up. Were they doing it for glory? I hope not.)

The whole discussion was of course about whether refugees with nothing deserve assistance when a war widow with assets above the threshold does not.

I believe the issue of means-testing the widower's pension was raised, well I certainly don't have a problem with it considering the value of one's home is not included in the means test. The terms of the test are made quite plain on the DVA website and I don't think where they've drawn the line is unreasonable. If Clive Palmer went off to war and was killed should his family get a pension from the taxpayer?

RE: parliamentary salaries and perks, well I think they are obscene much like CEO packages. A perfect example of what happens when you let people self-regulate their pay! I know the MD of my company has a base package of $850k and that's not including shares for doing his job properly :ugh:

As for whether my remarks about the uber right wing were warranted, perhaps they were not. I have gravitated more towards the centre over the last few years as anyone who reads my post history can probably attest. So I should know better ;) I'm just honestly not a fan of the military worship attitude, it's prevalent in the USA and I can't say I'm comfortable seeing it emulated here.

BEACH KING 19th Nov 2015 09:48

Chuboy..Just out of curiousity. Have you ever been self employed?

chuboy 19th Nov 2015 09:54

Not at this point in my life, no. What of it?

Stanwell 19th Nov 2015 10:04

Thank you for your post #19182, chuboy.
I was about to respond myself but was trying to think how not to breach forum rules when doing so.

Fortunately, megan came in with a more eloquent post than I had in mind.


p.s. While your posts are generally most welcome... A bit of advice: "Make sure brain is engaged before ... etc."

megan 19th Nov 2015 11:24


I have not once "knocked" the people who gave their lives or their health to serve in wars. (But at the same time, it was their job and they knew that when they signed up. Were they doing it for glory? I hope not.)
You have absolutely no understanding. They knew what when they signed up? The knot of fear when the enemy opens up on you? The knot of fear going into battle when you know casualties are going to be the outcome? The distress that comes from seeing a mate cut down? The continuing stress from what you have experienced living with you for the rest of your life, and the impact that has on your loved ones? Signing up for glory? Your joking, and just shows how out of touch you are with the real world. You know sweet FA.

My brother had a motorcycle accident in which he broke a leg. His number came up in the draft, but the Army refused him on the grounds that he had a suspected permanent limp. He then spent 18 months making a 500 mile round trip each month for specialist physio treatment, following which the Army accepted him. He volunteered for the sharp end - infantry. Why he was so insistent on getting in I have no idea, during his entire military life I only saw him for one weekend, and then again later for about 4 hours , for I was overseas undergoing my own military training. He answered his countries call. His subsequent death in combat had a profound influence (for the worse) on his mates lives.

In 2001 I was holidaying in Saigon when a chap walked up to me in the hotel lobby, saying "I know you". We had never met, but he saw a family resemblance, and when I told him my name he ran to his room in tears, for he was with my brother during the fateful action, and blamed himself in part for what took place - quite irrationally it must be said. It's interesting though the bond that forms between former combatants. Each appreciates the other was merely doing what his country asked.

While in the Vietnam countryside a very old man came up to out group and proudly pointed to his chest saying, "Me VC, me VC". Recognising we were ex combatants he ran off, to reappear some 15 minutes later with what seemed like the entire village, bearing trays of glasses and bottles of a clear liquor, which following toast after toast knocked our socks off. Neither side understood the others language, but there was an underlying understanding we were all a band of brothers, with mutual respect for the other as a human, and for his courage and professionalism.

Absolutely nothing adequately prepares an individual for conflict.



Why don't get onto a subject you know something about chuboy, the relative quality of the various lattes to be had in your local area.

Hempy 19th Nov 2015 11:44

megan, you could at least acknowledge the scriptwriters. After all, you don't want to be held on a charge of plagiarism, do you?

Dark Knight 19th Nov 2015 22:00

Megan :ok::ok:

Hempy, do not be so picky!


chuboy 19th Nov 2015 22:35


Originally Posted by megan (Post 9185410)
Why don't get onto a subject you know something about chuboy, the relative quality of the various lattes to be had in your local area.

Talking of cheap shots (no pun intended), I don't even drink coffee! You're getting remarkably defensive considering I have not said a bad word about our soldiers. I respect the work they do in the same way I respect the people who have to clean up the elderly in aged care centres or scrape the bodily remains of a car accident off the road in the middle of the night.

The problem with the graphic above is that, unmoderated, it ends up as frothing-at-the-mouth nationalism ala North Korea (and the USA at times). A moment to reflect on the sacrifices one makes when they answer the call-to-arms in wartime is one thing, outright glorification of the military is quite another. I make no apologies for showing restraint in that respect.

porch monkey 19th Nov 2015 23:35

Sadly, you don't seem to be able to tell the difference between worship and respect.

lomapaseo 19th Nov 2015 23:49


Sadly, you don't seem to be able to tell the difference between worship and respect.
Hmmm, a very deep subject methinks

Please give a try to tell us the difference as it may apply to the current discussion page

porch monkey 20th Nov 2015 00:05

I would have thought that you, my friend, would grasp the difference. Maybe not. Never mind. It does not need to be deep at all.

Dark Knight 20th Nov 2015 00:10

Perhaps a reread of this with a little contemplation may clarify it further.


Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.

Who's gonna do it?

You? You?

I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom.

You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines.

You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives.

And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty.

We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way,

Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.

Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.



A Few Good Men

chuboy 20th Nov 2015 00:33

Dark Knight, have I not made myself clear thus far that I fully appreciate the need for a military? I don't know how many different ways I can say it...

The number of passages that have been quoted to me for "contemplation" perhaps suggests that I am not the only one who needs to learn the difference between respect and worship!

lomapaseo 20th Nov 2015 01:48

It's easy to some

you demand respect for what you worship


just don't expect me to join in your worship

porch monkey 20th Nov 2015 02:27

You are entirely safe from that expectation, as far as I am concerned, you earn respect, you don't demand it.

gupta 20th Nov 2015 02:57

From my experience, those who demand respect have very rarely earned it.

chuboy 20th Nov 2015 03:26

Speaking of respect, Clive Palmer was remarkably gracious when the house he rented for a couple who lost their home in a fire was left totally trashed after just six months. The couple also left behind a car he donated to them, which itself was filled with donated items.

Clive is up for about $100k to repair the property. He had this to say about it...

"I don't think people should regard this incident where we should stop trying to help people who need our help and support."
Not sure how many people I know who would have been so restrained :eek:

Fire couple trash Gold Coast mansion rented by Clive Palmer

SOPS 20th Nov 2015 03:35

In other news, I see a boat nearly made it to Christmas this morning. Trying out the new PM's resolve perhaps?


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:25.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.