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At ease 8th Oct 2015 05:35

From 2 days ago:

Are there any figures available to show what percentage of our humanitarian migrants/refugees/family reunionists etc etc are currently welfare dependent?

I don't mean the ones that are 'fresh off the boat', so to speak, but ones that have been here for, say, greater than twelve months.


Others have previously posted links to government studies reporting long term unemployment levels of up to 90% in some groups.
From last December,

Thanks to MTOW:

Michael Smith has come up with some interesting stats in his latest article on his website.

I've chosen to study a cohort of overseas-born Australians and their uptake of Australian Government welfare payments.

76,451 Australians or 0.35% of our population was born in Lebanon.

Of that 76,451:

11,515 are on the Disability Support Pension. 1 in 6 Lebanese-born Australians.
1,315 receive a Wife Pension
5,714 receive a Carer Payment
8,991 receive a Carer Allowance
3,852 receive a Parenting Payment

And none of that includes normal Family Tax Part A or B, Baby Bonus, Study Allowances, Newstart and the other more traditional welfare payments.

Link to the earlier post:


Stanwell 8th Oct 2015 05:56

Thanks for that one, At ease.
Oh, BTW.. You may fall out, report to the OR's mess and have one on me.

Hempy 8th Oct 2015 06:40

'Michael Smith has come up with some interesting stats'. I'm sure he has. The poor mans Andrew Bolt. Nothing personal, but I'd much prefer statistics from a more reliable source, like say the ABS..

At ease 8th Oct 2015 06:43

@ Stanwell, I'd like that, thanks. :ok:

But first, some more unpleasant business.

Meanwhile, Auburn Council's finest is in the news again and, also again, for all the wrong reasons:

Auburn Deputy Mayor Salim Mehajer facing intimidation charge after alleged kidnap threat,

Auburn's controversial Deputy Mayor is facing a charge of intimidation after he allegedly threatened to find out where the father of a Lindt cafe siege survivor lived and to kidnap his children.
Police said along with the intimidation charge, Salim Mehajer was also served with an apprehended violence order (AVO).
The 29-year-old allegedly threatened Bruce Herat, the father of siege survivor Joel Herat.
Auburn Deputy Mayor Salim Mehajer facing intimidation charge after alleged kidnap threat - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

When is the NSW Local Government Minister going to do something about this dirtbag? :ugh:

At ease 8th Oct 2015 06:54

'Michael Smith has come up with some interesting stats'. I'm sure he has. The poor mans Andrew Bolt. Nothing personal, but I'd much prefer statistics from a more reliable source, like say the ABS..
The only place that would have access to such figures would be the federal government, either ABS, or Centrelink or through FoI.

Yes, he(Smith) may have got them via Andrew Bolt, but those I mentioned would be the only places his(Bolt's) researchers would look for them.

Sing along with me Hempy:

Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Ed.

source: http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/mredlyrics.html

Stanwell 8th Oct 2015 07:23


"... the poor man's Andrew Bolt".
Yeah, I'd go along with that - but I'm having trouble garnering meaningful statistics via conventional avenues.

I see the alarm bells ringing when I mention words like ethnicity, residency or citizenship status.
Is somebody trying to hide something?

It may come down to an FOI application because I'm loath to put too much store in information that comes via either the rabid right or the loony left.
I spent enough time with market research and statistics to know that any figures can be interpreted 'creatively'.

Hempy 8th Oct 2015 08:13

At ease, I'm impressed by your faith. Surely though, if Smith or Bolts 'researchers' had been through the conduits you describe for their information, they would have cited them somewhere to add credibility to their stance, no? Unless you just take whatever they claim to be true as actual 'fact'.

I'm afraid I'm a tad more cynical than that. If you show me where the stats actually came from (the horses mouth as it were....and I don't mean Smith or Bolts) then I'll believe them.

Until then I'm happy to remain sceptical. They both have a history of 'bending' the truth.

Worrals in the wilds 8th Oct 2015 08:23

I spent enough time with market research and statistics to know that any figures can be interpreted 'creatively'.
A lot of it depends on how you slice the numbers, whether you analyse employment figures for Australian born citizens of a particular ethnicity (which I'm not sure the ABS collects?), whether you rely on a survey and most importantly, what particular barrow you're trying to push :suspect:. There are various companies in Australia that specialise in producing tailor made surveys to fit any argument you'd care to think of.

By way of example, this is from a lefty website and they've relied on transposing ABS estimates wrt national numbers onto particular communities, which IMO sounds a bit rubbery. :ooh: However, it does illustrate some of the issues, such as what constitutes employment (answer... an hour per week, which various federal governments from both sides have endorsed as a way to keep the jobless rate looking low).
Migrant Unemployment Higher Than Reported | Pro Bono Australia

On another note, in federal politics...

Liberal Party federal director Brian Loughnane denies he is collateral damage from the ousting of former prime minister Tony Abbott. Mr Loughnane told Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of his decision to resign yesterday. It is expected he will be replaced by NSW state director and Liberal Party stalwart Tony Nutt.

Some Liberal MPs see Mr Loughnane's departure as the natural conclusion to the leadership spill which felled Mr Abbott. But Mr Loughnane denies the Coalition was heading for electoral defeat with Mr Abbott at the helm. "I was very confident we were on track to win. We had a clear strategy," Mr Loughnane told the ABC.
Brian Loughnane stands down as Liberal Party director, insists Coalition was on track to win election with Tony Abbott as leader - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

I'd pay good money to know what the 'clear strategy' was. :}

At ease 8th Oct 2015 09:06

A lot of it depends on how you slice the numbers, whether you analyse employment figures for Australian born citizens of a particular ethnicity (which I'm not sure the ABS collects?)
I believe the Census does collect such information:

For 2001 it was decided that development of Government policies did need information about people who were either born overseas, or whose parents were born overseas. The questions were to mark the ancestries most closely identified with and to consider ancestry back as far as three generations. Respondents had the option of reporting more than one ancestry but only the first two ancestries they reported were coded for the census.

And, of course, Centrelink would need to know which language interpreter they will need to provide when assessing a claim, and I guarantee there would be plenty of those needed.

Another drain on taxpayer's money, when I have to drag government departments kicking and screaming(as I had to earlier today when DVA wants to serve up a pathetic excuse for a home cleaning service) to provide a decent level of care for my 91 year old War Widow mother who has been a War Widow longer than she had been married.

It's an absolute :mad: disgrace that anyone born overseas gets a single cent of taxpayer funds spent on them whilst dependants and descendants of Veterans don't receive adequate care.

Worrals in the wilds 8th Oct 2015 09:31

Thanks for that, interesting :8. Of course they may not be keen to release all that info, particularly anything that's too non-PC.
I'm sorry you're getting the runaround from DVA. They were very good to my grandfather (including organizing a decent cleaning service), but I guess it depends on which operative you get and what area you're in. :(

If you haven't already done so, tell them you're writing a complaint to the Minister (and do so). Make sure that the letter contains a direct request for a response from his office.
Everyone assumes that letters to MPs doesn't go anywhere, but IME within the Australian Public Service that was not the case. It was amazing how quickly the department could action a Ministerial and rectify a problem, given their complete inability to process anything else. :rolleyes:

P.S. IME there's a few different schools of thought on whether it's better to email or snail mail. Be aware that most MPs use email sorting software so if you email (or use the web based submission), keep it clear and concise so it ends up in the correct folder. One doctrine is that you're best off (legibly) handwriting your request, because then it has to be read by a human in the office. The downside is that these days it can seem a bit eccentric, though the Minister for Vets office are probably used to it. As always, just my $0.02 :}:8

Hempy 8th Oct 2015 09:40

DVA have been excellent to my Mum. Although she does live in Canberra..

Flying Binghi 10th Oct 2015 05:28

turnbull the muppet...

"...turnbull was booed by his own party members during an address at the Liberal Party State Council yesterday... ...was met by a chorus of laughter and jeers from sections of the crowd..."


Hmm... So, when turnbull got turfed out as leader of the opposition. How many Liberal party members resigned their membership ? Seemed nobody cared enuf about him or his waffle to resign..:hmm:


At ease 10th Oct 2015 06:59


Thanks for the advice. :ok:

Hempy 10th Oct 2015 10:25

parabellum 10th Oct 2015 10:37

Karl Stefanovic has never made any secret of his pro ALP stand, his admiration for both Rudd and Gillard and his intense dislike of anything LNP.

(and the source for that is; just watch the Today programme a few times.).

Hempy 10th Oct 2015 10:45

Yeah, Karl was one of the conspiracy ringleaders I reckon. Julie Bishop seems like a loyal, upstanding deputy leader though.

Meanwhile, the man on the grassy knoll has sequestered American help..

Pinky the pilot 10th Oct 2015 11:47

Dunno about the rest of you, but the more I see, read and hear various People attempts to continue to stick the knife into Tony Abbott makes me think that he was and still is a threat to Labor and their ideologies!:=

Quite possibly also just Labor's hatred of anything that does not agree with their agendum?

SOPS 10th Oct 2015 12:07

Have to agree Pinky. They got their wet dream. He is gone. But still the continue to stick the knife in. For the life of me, I can't work out why. My super lefty, left. Lefty, tree hugging sister dropped in last night. And she started on Abbott. Bad, bad, bad. I said to her, what is your problem? He has gone, you got your whish
She couldn't answer the question, as normal just ranted and raved, basically saying she knows all, I know nothing.

I think they are scared. Scared that they got what they wanted, but nothing's changed. The words may have softened, but policy is basically the same.

And as far as asking her to explain the execution in Sydney, that's when she stormed out.

If the narrative does not fit the left's idea of utopia, they have no answer, but to yell and scream and abuse.

Hempy 10th Oct 2015 12:18

What exactly do you think 'Lefties' are afraid of in regards to Tony Abbott? He's politically dead. He's a backbencher who will be lucky to survive preselection at the next election, let alone hold his seat if he does. Shades of Howard.

Could it posibly be that the continued Abbott bagging simply happens in order to put a counterweight to those on the right who can't let him go? Turnbull is the leader of the Liberal Party, yet the far right are disgusted because of it. They want hard line Tony back.

Guess what. It aint gonna happen. The man was a clusterf:mad:k of the highest order...

SOPS 10th Oct 2015 14:00

No Hempy. I did not say that. I said the left got what they wanted. I am, at the moment, happy with Malcom. What I can't understand is the constant hatred from the left against Tony. He seems to me to be a nice family man. What is the left's problem with him? He has gone, but still the gate continues.

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