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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Hempy 12th Jul 2015 06:38

Oh the irony! Absolute Gold!!! :D

p.s it's 'squawk'

Ethel the Aardvark 12th Jul 2015 06:42

Just read a 2015 paper indicating that wind investment alone worldwide ( apart from Germany ) is increasing between 10 % and 40%.
Meanwhile Australia is leading the world in climate sceptics, just ahead of Norway . New Zealand and the U S, good on yer Tony, Knew you would make us world leaders in something !!

parabellum 12th Jul 2015 07:21


World investment in renewable energy up around 20 % per year, Australia going the other way by 70%.
Ethel - What is the base figure you are working on? By reducing 70% it is possible that Australia's investment in wind power, per head of population, is only bringing it into line with 'World investment', just quoting a percentage without saying what it is a percentage of is meaningless.

parabellum 12th Jul 2015 07:28


very high initial capital cost, very high maintenance costs, insufficient electricity generation and a host of environmental issues. :rolleyes:
Chuboy - the above is a direct quote from my BiL and a nephew who are highly qualified engineers and have both been involved in the development of renewable energy for many years. (BiL a Prof at Cambridge, nephew doing research with a very large conglomerate).


In terms of efficiency for producing electricity one of the leaders is tidal power, (not wave power), but the capital cost is also quite large.

chuboy 12th Jul 2015 07:41

Parabellum, what is their opinion on Denmark producing more than 100% of its electricity requirements using wind power the other day?

On a similar note apparently the USA is initiating construction of a new nuclear power plant. I would like to see Australia do the same. Unfortunately there is no political will anywhere to pursue this golden opportunity considering we have good uranium reserves and an operating environment not prone to tsunamis, earthquakes, or employees who regard face over safety.

parabellum 12th Jul 2015 07:47

100% agree regarding nuclear Chuboy, it is the only way to go.


Unfortunately producing 100% on one windy day simply isn't enough to make them a viable source of alternative/renewable energy! What they don't say is that having worked so hard the maintenance will have increased too. :)

MTOW 12th Jul 2015 08:12

Just saw on the evening news that the airlines have had to cancel flights again into and out of Bali due to volcanic ash.

If the Rudd/Gillard gummit was still in power, the Oz holidaymakers could have trooped down to the wharf at Bali and squeezed as many as would fit onto a half dozen boats and Bob'd be their uncle - the RAN would have picked them up at the 12mile limit and taken them home, at least as far as Darwin.

410 12th Jul 2015 08:23

This mob make a lot of sense on Australia needing to adopt the nuclear option. If you ever get a chance to attend one of Rob Parker's lectures, do so. I see he's speaking at Chatswood on 22 July.

Australian Nuclear Association | An independent incorporated scientific institution

rh200 12th Jul 2015 10:45


I am interested to read your sources RJM
There's no shortage of reputable journals going into all sorts of issues on the subject. very boring so they don't make the headlines.

The technical issues with regrds to wind is well known. The last I heard was the European grid is under extreme strain and constant danger of falling over. One figure was a trillion dollars to up grade so it can take any more "significant" renewable capacity.


100% of its electricity requirements using wind power the other day?
These headlines come out every now and then, and are virtually meaningless. I think South Aus had one a while back. The krauts had one not long back as well. Usually whats happening is, their load dumping a huge amount of it, or farming large parts to other countries as the local distribution system can't handle it. Whilst still sucking up huge amounts of wholesome coal fired base load.

Name plate generation, and what its producing at any one time, doesn't mean its actually being utilised. The Europeans are lucky, they are part of a huge grid, which has a lot of overall capacitence for want of a better word. In the case of the Kruats and Danes, they have the benifit of being next door to countries with a huge amount of base load, ironically nuclear.

MTOW 12th Jul 2015 11:14

Solar power causes enormous difficulties for the (let's call it the 'normal') grid because it reaches its peak at mid afternoon when the draw on the grid is relatively light. However, the base load must be maintained at a relatively narrow band, so with all those subsidised private dwellings porting in their input every sunny afternoon, the base load had to be dumped - which equals waste - for the dumped power has already been produced by coal/oil/gas/hydro, just not delivered.

Then, after dark, when the draw on the grid increases, the base load has to be jacked up to meet the demand from the even lower level it was down to thanks to the solar input, which equals even more waste.

The same would apply when wind power produces more than usual, and particularly so on the rare occasions when wind delivers 100% of the required power.

So all those lucky households which are receiving 60c, 40c or 20c a unit for adding their solar input to the grid, far from helping, are actually costing us money twice - once for the subsidy and then again for the dumped base load that has to be replaced.

parabellum 12th Jul 2015 12:21

MTOW- I think the difference is the over supply of solar power is a solvable problem, (storage, redeploy to needy areas, like Scandinavia during Northern winter etc.), the under supply of wind power isn't, the system is maxed out and running at a permanent loss.

Ethel the Aardvark 12th Jul 2015 15:49

Oh Para, you wrote it in your own question, renewable is not only wind power!!
Do you really trust Australia to produce a safe nuclear power plant, we can't mine it safely, we can't manage a gas complex without a major explosion after a dodgy pipe let go and we can't even build a hospital with plumbing that does not flood continuously. If you can guarantee 100% safety then it's a possibility

TWT 12th Jul 2015 21:58

Eight out of 10 taxpayers go to work simply to fund Australia’s welfare bill


No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au


No newspaper article is without some bias,but if the claim that 80% of tax collected is funding welfare is true,then it's very disturbing.
mmmm
mmmmm
mmmm
mmmmm

MTOW 12th Jul 2015 23:09

TWT, someone came out with that same figure a fortnight ago and no one disputed it then. I think it was on the Paul Murray show on Sky, where there's usually at least a token Leftie.

Stanwell 13th Jul 2015 00:37

Why would any thinking and informed person waste their breath disputing it?
'Risible' is a word that springs to mind.

p.s. Research has shown that nine out of ten Telegraph readers are gullible far-kwits.

TWT 13th Jul 2015 01:45

A friend passed this on.Provides a bit more analysis of the sweeping,headline grabbing claims :

FactCheck: do eight out of 10 taxpayers work every day to pay our $150b welfare bill?

SOPS 13th Jul 2015 02:37

More insanity from the courts....can't upset the little lovies can we, even though they want to kill us.

Junaid Thorne's bail amended to attend Ramadan prayers as he waits to appeal sentence for travelling under false name - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

chuboy 13th Jul 2015 02:56


Originally Posted by TWT (Post 9044115)
if the claim that 80% of tax collected is funding welfare is true,then it's very disturbing.

It seems that the 80% number is approximately correct.

Of that welfare bill, 29% of it given to senior citizens, with another 13% going out the door as Family Tax Benefits.

Only 7% of welfare actually goes to the sick/unemployed.

Disturbing indeed! :=

alisoncc 13th Jul 2015 03:07


Of that welfare bill, 29% of it given to senior citizens, with another 13% going out the door as Family Tax Benefits.

Only 7% of welfare actually goes to the sick/unemployed.

Disturbing indeed! :=
I would suggest that the vast bulk of the senior citizens receiving "welfare" paid income tax all their lives, and successive govts have failed to put any aside to fund their pensions. There has always been this stupid expectation in govt that future revenue will pay future outgoings, and when future revenue declines the brown stuff hits the fan. But don't blame those who invariably did the right thing all their lives.

For many who were working before superannuation became the norm -
Age pensions are not welfare.


It's not new. Want an example from todays Australian:
http://users.on.net/~alisoncc/super.jpg
And when they are due their pensions, what then ?

alisoncc 13th Jul 2015 03:28


U. S. Army considering using Dum-dums
Dum Dums what? :p


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