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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

rh200 25th Jun 2015 11:32

So most here are either mentally or physically disabled, or drunk.
Or a combination of the above:p

Worrals in the wilds 25th Jun 2015 12:35

Of course 'disabled' is a pejorative word; the better phrase is 'differently abled'. :cool:;)
And thanks, I'll have a large tofu latte with kale sprinkles. :}

MTOW 25th Jun 2015 23:11

I know it's ancient history now , but it's a policy that has always made me cross. It was shortsighted, hide-bound prejudice touted by a bunch of so-called educational 'experts' that has had a serious impact.
Worrals, I have a far less Christian view of it. It was pure and outright empire building by the academics in those heady Whitlam years. Techs - that were doing an excellent job doing what they were designed to do - were turned into universities, and all too soon, (not a surprise to many of us, who said so at the time), it was recognised that this left a void that had to be filled, so they came up with TAFE to attempt to replace the technical colleges.

All we've achieved is the creation of another level of "education". RMIT and Swinburne, for two examples, were centres of excellence - but they weren't universities. They offered excellent, high-quality training and turned out a damned fine product (if I say so myself :) ) Now they're universities and are quite probably still turning out a fine product, but not (or not nearly enough) of the skilled technical graduates they once did. That's now done by TAFEs, and I really hope someone can tell me I'm wrong, but I don't think many of them provide the standards the old techs did.

410 25th Jun 2015 23:42

10% of Australian voters - and 41% of ABC journalists - vote for this party
This is an aviation forum, so I thought some here might be interested in this, (which you could not make up).


Green Scan Plan

Bret Harte

After reports that screenings failed to detect mock explosives and weapons in 95% of tests carried out by undercover agents, US homeland security secretary, Jeh Johnson, has ordered improved security at airports. (Guardian)

So, yet again government agencies manage to be aggressive, unpleasant, expensive, uneconomic time wasters, while failing to perform their basic function, and failing to an absolutely stunning degree.

The Greens have an answer.

Adam Bandt, the lone representative of the Green Party in the House of Representatives has outlined the Green’s policy on airline security. “Let the passengers check themselves for weapons and explosives.”

“We have to acknowledge that security agents are insufficiently trained. We must recognise that detection devices obviously don’t work anyway. So the way forward is to have airline passengers just check themselves for security and pat themselves down before boarding.

The average man or woman is amazingly sensitive to when checking their pockets and handbags. Climate science has confirmed that. Anything that should not be there – like IED’s or 44’s- are readily noticed and can be removed.

When you realise that the average person can detect a pebble in the shoe, or even a hair out of place, it is easy to conclude that they are more sensitive and have greater tactile senses than any machine or X-ray.

Greens are not stupid – we understand that that there will be those who are so anti-social that they will lie, but the patdown selfie is only the first step.”

Bandt continued, “Who has the most interest in having a no-bomb policy strictly enforced? The passengers themselves. So, as a fail-safe measure the Greens propose that each passenger will pat down the other. To respect sexual and religious sensitivity males will pat-down males, women will pat-down women, gays will pat-down gays, and Muslims will pat-down Muslims.

There may be passengers who feel uncomfortable patting down themselves in the initial search. There will be those who are reluctant to do a body cavity search on themselves and others, but in such a case, I have spoken to a number of people in my immediate circle, and I believe a call for volunteers be supported by many.

If you can’t check your own bra for an aerosol dispenser of toxic chemicals, you’ll find many willing to lend you a hand.”

Senator Milne. leader of Greens in the Senate, applauded Bandt’s exposition of Green policy, “Adam always shows he can think outside box, and even what we like to call common sense. If this is not accepted Adam has an even simpler version. Everyone will travel nude. Ladies here, men there, those with unusual sexual preferences somewhere in special cubicles.”

“It makes sense to Greens,” she said.
i'm hoping this turns out to be a joke. However, given that it is the Greens, maybe it's not.

rh200 25th Jun 2015 23:49

That's now done by TAFEs, and I really hope someone can tell me I'm wrong, but I don't think many of them provide the standards the old techs did.
Well thats a point that could be debated, but frankely the whole system from grade one though to the fork in the road and both branches (trade, degrees) are suffereing from standards.

The technical sides of Uni's have been sqarwking for a while now at the standard of maths etc coming from Y12, and the standard of grad at the end of Uni isn't much better.

Then we have the whole cert 4 type of thing etc, and RPL trade training. I can say for a fact the whole RPL thing statistically is a rort. the shortage of trades in at least the mechanical side, created a large side business for RPL qualifications for a lot of people who could pick up a spanner, but didn't know the difference between a a ringy and combination spanner.

The actual proper trade training has change a lot too, supposedly better but frankely seems worse.

In theory the whole thing is a systems approach to the problem that should streamline things. So maybe as a whole it is better.

SOPS 25th Jun 2015 23:52

The Q and A thing just gets better and better.

Mallah met with ABC producers before Q&A appearance - 9news.com.au

chuboy 26th Jun 2015 01:02

Originally Posted by 410 (Post 9024642)
i'm hoping this turns out to be a joke. However, given that it is the Greens, maybe it's not.

The average man or woman is amazingly sensitive to when checking their pockets and handbags. Climate science has confirmed that. Anything that should not be there Ė like IEDís or 44ís- are readily noticed and can be removed.
It's a joke, but I can understand your confusion - it's not funny like a typical joke.

I wonder who would really think Adam Bandt would comment on what the US Secretary of Homeland Security has to say about a domestic issue?

Maybe it is good satire. A badly-composed fake news report, clearly designed to make the frothing-at-the-mouth right wing nutjobs who write such things (and those who subsequently believe them) look a little bit silly.

Actually the more I think about it, the more I disagree with my first comment. Maybe it is clever and funny after all :p

Worrals in the wilds 26th Jun 2015 08:27

MTOW, you may well be correct.

The technical sides of Unis have been sqarwking for a while now at the standard of maths etc coming from Y12, and the standard of grad at the end of Uni isn't much better.
Also true, and often the standard of English isn't too good either. Part of the problem is that unis don't like failing students any more (they used to revel in it:ouch:). People who work in higher educucation point to a number of reasons for this, including the commercialisation of the unis, more competition for students between vastly more institutions than there used to be, and more demanding students who will appeal a fail, unlike the old-school students who would suck it up and repeat.

porch monkey 26th Jun 2015 08:52

It's all part of the "Every kid is a winner, there are no losers" mentality that we have infected schools and sport and many other aspects of life these days.

RJM 26th Jun 2015 11:38

Part of the problem must be the poor skills of teachers. I don't mean to sound pompous, but I learned Latin from an old school Latin teacher (who had come from Trinity College, Dublin). Latin vocab and grammar were drummed into me until I could conjugate verbs in my sleep. I now teach Latin to students, and I'm amazed at how little basic grammar they know. So are they, and they are invariably thankful for gaining a proper understanding of English grammar as a result.

Grammar is not hard to teach or learn. I think the teachers today simply don't know much about it.

Now I sound like an old fart. :(

Pinky the pilot 26th Jun 2015 12:08

RJM; Should I ever have the pleasure of meeting you; Over a glass or three of red I would apreciate a bit of a lesson in Latin from you!:ok:

It has been discussed here in JB before but as I remember, it was generally agreed by those who had to study Latin at school, found that they had a far better grasp of the English Language re grammar etc than those who did not.

In the Boarding School I attended in Adelaide SA, Latin was only available to those who intended to go on to the Lutheran Seminary and become Pastors in the Lutheran Church.

And indeed, in the years that have gone by I have realised that it would have been an advantage if Latin was more generally available as a subject.

MTOW 26th Jun 2015 12:14

I loathed every hour I spent studying Latin - and thank God now that I was forced to do so. It gives an incredible advantage in working out the root meaning of many English words, and I can still to this day recite "amo, amas, amat" etc.

Pinky the pilot 26th Jun 2015 12:25

and I can still to this day recite "amo, amas, amat" etc.
MTOW; I will never forget the screams of mirth that came from all of us at the table in the Dining Hall of my College one evening when one of the future Pastors of the Lutheran Church recited the verb for, I believe, `to do or make.`

He put the stress on the incorrect part of one word, and actually got away with sounding like he had used a swear word in front of one of the biggest, most obnoxious, self righteous, arrogant prig of a Prefect I ever had the misfortune to have met!:*:}:mad:

Funny how things like that stick in ones mind!:D:E

Clare Prop 26th Jun 2015 15:50

My Dad taught Latin and Greek most of his life and used to mark Latin O levels in the summer holidays. He was often to be found helpless with laughter at the "people called Romanes they go the house" type translations.

As Molesworth once said "Caesar adsum jam forte" is Latin for "Ceasar had some jam for tea".

As any fule kno

RJM 26th Jun 2015 21:39

Pinky - 'fecit'?

It's the third person singular perfect indicative active of the verb 'facere', to make or do. See my problem? I knew that! Imagine the hard drive space that sort of thing takes up.

Speaking of Latin, here's a useful bit of Latin translation which will be an advantage to anyone interested.

One of the myriad everyday uses of Latin is reading inscriptions on old Roman buildings. Here's the inscription above the Pantheon in Rome. It gives you some idea of the brevity possible in Latin, and possibly what a pain in the arse it was to carve letters into marble:


It means 'Marcus Agrippa, son of Lucius, consul for the third time, made it (made this)'

Marcus Agrippa was made consul for the third time in 35BC (as any fule kno).

But Agrippa did not make the Pantheon which has his name on it. Hadrian did, in about 120AD. Agrippa's effort, built in 25BC, burned down, and Hadrian generously attributed his much improved version to Agrippa.

I'd happily go into further detail over a red sometime, Pinky.

MTOW 26th Jun 2015 22:56

Time zones being what they are, the Poms are all safe abed for a few hours yet. What in the world are those who frequent this thread going to think when they awaken and find those rough, unschooled antipodean colonials are conversing about...

Latin conjunctions??!!!! :)

The world has trembled, nay, shifted on its axis.

Now, back to Oz politics. Julia Gillard has just racked (or should that be wracked?) up a bill of $454,000 for a refurb. of just one of the offices (with staff) that the taxpayer provides for her in her retirement. I think we've reached the situation where some journalist should set him or herself the task of compiling the total expenses borne by the taxpayer for each individual retired politician. It might just shame one or two of them into reining some of their more extravagant claims back.

Waaaait a minute. Did I just put 'shame' and 'retired politician' into the same sentence? Cancel that last sentence in the paragraph above.

chuboy 26th Jun 2015 23:08

Careful now MTOW. Now that the government has made blowing the whistle on child abuse in detention centres punishable by imprisonment, it won't be long before the same applies on the mainland generally, and you will have to think twice before you speak of such things as dubious and/or profligate government spending in the public forum.

When are we going to have our emperor's new clothes moment?

MTOW 26th Jun 2015 23:11

Can you provide a link to that news, chuboy?

bosnich71 26th Jun 2015 23:40

"Can you provide a link"? .......I wait with bated breath.
( Hopefully my grammar is correct as I didn't do Latin. It was a choice of that or Biology and as the girls did the latter it was an easy choice to make, not that it did me any good).

RJM 27th Jun 2015 00:31

Yeah, me too, chubby.

Good choice, bosnich. :ok:

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