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Stanwell 13th Apr 2015 11:38

And so are RACE and CULTURE.
Professional (and amateur) stirrers seem to find it convenient to 'confuse' the two.

A case in point here would be the Lebanese, where cultural (religious) distinctions within that ethnic group
make a big difference to their assimilation prospects here.

Worrals in the wilds 13th Apr 2015 12:05

A case in point here would be the Lebanese, where cultural (religious) distinctions within that ethnic group make a big difference to their assimilation prospects here.
Of course. When a particular culture arises that is anathematic to the prevailing culture, there's a problem. When some Australians of Lebanese descent decide that they hate their country of birth (i.e. Australia) there's a problem. The problem is both theirs and ours, and could be easily solved if they :mad:ed off back to Lebanon, leaving the many Aussie-Lebs who like living here free to do so. Unfortunately, some of them don't seem to want to do that. They'd rather stick around whinging, rabble rousing and causing trouble, because it's so much easier. :rolleyes:
For them, there's the criminal law. Maybe (eventually) the various state governments will recognise the problem, stop playing party politics wrt local votes/ policitally correct BS and start performing their duty to protect law and order.

parabellum 13th Apr 2015 18:31

Chuboy - you said;

where immigrants can become marginalised
With much of the more recent Muslim immigrants this is a state they try to achieve, they see it as a way to eventually set up their own enclaves, remote from the mainstream society and where they can practice their own primitive behaviour as well as ferment terrorist cells. We don't impose marginalisation upon them, they relish it.

MTOW 13th Apr 2015 22:03

and could be easily solved if they ***ed off back to Lebanon,
Worrals, if what I've been told by Lebanese I worked with is true, (and if it's not, I'm sure someone will correct me), quite a few of the Oz-born Lebs who have gone "home" to the land that has been idealised by their parents find they don't fit in there either.

Their Arabic is dated and marks them as different the moment they open their mouths. (The same thing happened to a close Swedish friend who went back to Sweden after thirty years - the kids laughed at his 'old fashioned' Swedish language, and I understand something similar happened after the Berlin Wall fell - the language used by those who came from the East had more or less stayed in the 40s, while the language used by people in the West had developed and changed.)

Back to the OzhyphenLebanese. They quickly realise that the 'old country' has moved on and is VERY different to the overly idealised land of milk and honey their parents fondly (mis)remembered. I think the locals call them 'kangaroos' - (the very same name Italians labelled Oz/Italians with who went back to Italy) - and it's a term of derision.

So they end up as fish out of water in both societies. The one group who will accept them and welcome them into their ranks (because they can use them) is the Islamic radicals. They tell them what they want to hear, and all too many of them fall for the radicals' line.

This feeling of not belonging in either society is not helped by the fact that a great proportion of the AustralianhyphenLebanese who came here in the 1970s and 80s (totally unlike most Lebanese who came here earlier), came from parts of Lebanese society that were already on the very margins of that society. In short, the Syrian Army - (the body that the Fraser and later the Hawke/Keating governments put in charge of selecting who would come to Australia) - quite openly got rid of the troublemakers and criminals by sending them to Australia.

Before someone says that that's exactly what the Brits did with the first European settlers sent to Australia, while I accept that that is true, they were the criminals and troublemakers of the same society and culture that settled here. The Lebanese troublemakers brought with them a widely different culture. The Brit criminals who came here were (a) brought out here as criminals and treated as such and (b) did not have a bunch of White-Guilt-ridden huggy fluffs waiting to tell them that every imagined and manufactured grievance they came up with would be accepted and that they should hold on to those grievances and milk them for all they are worth while demanding the host culture pays them every benefit the huggy fluffs can foist upon them.

The LebanesehyphenAustralian parents who have encouraged they children to remain separate and overly proud of their heritage and openly disdaining Australian culture have done them no favours. But try telling that to any university educated white middle class Australian apostle of the MultiCulturi 'god'.

Fubaar 14th Apr 2015 08:49

Does this sound like any place we know? And note the date - 1982!


The following tactics and techniques are among the many recommendations made in The Project:

1. Networking and coordinating actions between likeminded Islamist organizations;

2. Avoiding open alliances with known terrorist organizations and individuals to maintain the appearance of “moderation”;

3. Infiltrating and taking over existing Muslim organizations to realign them towards the
Muslim Brotherhood’s collective goals;

4. Using deception to mask the intended goals of Islamist actions, as long as it doesn’t conflict with shari’a law;

5. Avoiding social conflicts with Westerners locally, nationally or globally, that might damage the long-term ability to expand the Islamist powerbase in the West or provoke a lash back against Muslims;

6. Establishing financial networks to fund the work of conversion of the West, including the support of full-time administrators and workers;

7. Conducting surveillance, obtaining data, and establishing collection and data storage capabilities;

8. Putting into place a watchdog system for monitoring Western media to warn Muslims of “international plots fomented against them”;

9. Cultivating an Islamist intellectual community, including the establishment of think-tanks and advocacy groups, and publishing “academic” studies, to legitimize Islamist positions and to chronicle the history of Islamist movements;

10. Developing a comprehensive 100-year plan to advance Islamist ideology throughout the world;

11. Balancing international objectives with local flexibility;

12. Building extensive social networks of schools, hospitals and charitable organizations dedicated to Islamist ideals so that contact with the movement for Muslims in the West is constant;

13. Involving ideologically committed Muslims in democratically-elected institutions on all levels in the West, including government, NGOs, private organizations and labour unions;

14. Instrumentally using existing Western institutions until they can be converted and put into service of Islam;

15. Drafting Islamic constitutions, laws and policies for eventual implementation;

16. Avoiding conflict within the Islamist movements on all levels, including the development of processes for conflict resolution;

17. Instituting alliances with Western “progressive” organizations that share similar goals;

18. Creating autonomous “security forces” to protect Muslims in the West;

19. Inflaming violence and keeping Muslims living in the West “in a Jihad frame of mind”;

20. Supporting Jihad movements across the Muslim world through preaching, propaganda, personnel, funding, and technical and operational support;

21. Making the Palestinian cause a global wedge issue for Muslims;

22. Adopting the total liberation of Palestine from Israel and the creation of an Islamic state as a keystone in the plan for global Islamic domination;

23. Instigating a constant campaign to incite hatred by Muslims against Jews and rejecting any discussions of conciliation or coexistence with them;

24. Actively creating Jihad terror cells within Palestine;

25. Linking the terrorist activities in Palestine with the global terror movement;

26. Collecting sufficient funds to indefinitely perpetuate and support Jihad around the world;

Islams plan is well and truly under way when you think about the above, time to pull them up.

Worrals in the wilds 14th Apr 2015 12:41

MTOW, yep. I've heard that too.
Neither fish nor fowl. Of course this is not new with respect to immigrants. To a certain extent probably all immigrants feel this way from time to time, and plenty of people migrate to Australia only to migrate back because it doesn't suit them. I've known Brits, New Zealanders and Europeans who came here, found it didn't suit them and went away again, which is of course their prerogative.

Unfortunately, a minority within the Australian-Lebanese have taken it to a violent extreme. The solution for dealing with violent offenders is pretty simple and can be found within the criminal law. I think Mark Latham's recent article wrt disaffected youths in Western Sydney was well worth reading, although it didn't endear him to Greens types.

I don't see any mainstream leftie commentators who disagree that violence is illegal and should be punished accordingly. I don't see any mainstream leftie commentators suggesting that we tolerate violence or religiou extremism. However, that doesn't make the entire group guilty by association; that would be both unfair and untrue. It also alienates moderate people and makes them less inclined to speak out against extremists.

The same accusation was levelled at the Irish during the IRA's violent terrorist campaign, and it was equally unfair and untrue back then. It encouraged an 'us and them' style of thinking that only aided the criminal cause and gave it a legitimacy that it did not deserve. Many law abiding, decent Australians of Irish descent sent money and support to a collection of violent, criminal thugs, in the misguided belief that they were furthering a legitimate cause. Of course by the end there was little legitimacy in the IRA's manifesto, but constant harping about how the Irish couldn't be trusted gave their message a respectability it never deserved. I see similarities in the current 'Australia First' style commentaries, with their 'if you're not one of us you're one of them' manifesto. It's neither tolerant nor inclusive, and I find the violent overtones that often accompany it disturbing. Fighting fire with fire just results in a bigger fire. You fight a fire by methodically starving it of fuel and air, not by adding more kindling.

In short, the Syrian Army - (the body that the Fraser and later the Hawke/Keating governments put in charge of selecting who would come to Australia) - quite openly got rid of the troublemakers and criminals by sending them to Australia.
Cf (some of) the Romanians who arrived in the 1980s after Ceausescu opened the prisons.

bosnich71 15th Apr 2015 03:23

Wow, thankyou Mr. Andrews. A cool $420,000,000 for S.F.A.

Ethel the Aardvark 15th Apr 2015 08:47

Tony's back flipping on business tax, too gutless to get involved in the state GST debacle .
All back to normal I see

Takan Inchovit 15th Apr 2015 09:51

That must make you happy, we are effectively still running on the labour/green policies of yesteryear. It is no wonder we are still going down the gurgler.

Hempy 15th Apr 2015 10:05

^^ ..and with a Liberal government in power, too. Must be somewhat disenfranchising to the old school ties..

SOPS 18th Apr 2015 03:17

I see where those arrested this morning on suspicion of planning a terrorist attack on Anzac Day, attended the same islamic study Center as the chocolate shop crazy. Surely it's time the place was shut down and burnt to the ground.

MTOW 18th Apr 2015 08:38

The usual suspect lawyers (Burnside and Co) will be racing to represent them and to tell us all that it's our fault that they feel alienated (except every second Thursday when they pick up their dole payment or their disability pension - that's if these particular clowns are old enough to have started those scams yet) and that because of this, a wet lettuce lightly applied across the back of the wrist will suffice as punishment.

That's as long as we agree to pay them huge compensation for all that unremitting alienation we inflicted upon them.

RJM 18th Apr 2015 16:21

That idiot Rintoul is already warning people 'not to lash out at the immigrant community (by which he means Islamic) community generally', by which he means to hit about three birds: to once again display his soft Left credentials and keep up his public image; imply criticism of the Right; and build a false narrative around his best clients that once more, the despised white Anglos are just dying to punch out the next Muslim they see.

(I am dying to punch a few out, but not the average, lawn-mowing type.)

Fantome 18th Apr 2015 17:03

speaking of good apples and bad apples -


MTOW 18th Apr 2015 21:24

Hmmmm... having once been a frequent visitor to Iran, I can safely say that Julie Bishop has managed to offend both camps in her wearing of a veil during her visit to that country.

From comments I've read on other sites she's offended those who thought she should not wear a veil.

However, by showing so much hair with the veil only covering the back half of her head (what the fashionistas might call 'the demi veil look'), she will have totally offended the extremists among the Iranians. (And among the Iranian government, is there anyone who is not?) While on the subject of offence being taken by the Professionally Eternally Offended, anyone who thinks the Iranians aren't highly offended in having to deal with a woman in these talks has never dealt with Iranian officialdom. At the lowest end of officialdom, I've seen Customs officers in Tehran damn near choke when asked to show their ID cards by a female flight attendant as they came aboard the aircraft. I can assure you, that attitude goes right to the top.

Poor Jules is managing to do very much the same here with telling the conservative heartland that she's good mates with Kevin Rudd and Malcolm Turnbull - she'll never win the hearts of the true Lefties, but, in attempting to be all things to all men (shades of her parliamentary leader), she's alienating the conservative heartland.

Fubaar 19th Apr 2015 00:56

Anyone with an even passing familiarity with Islam, particularly as practised by the Iranians, who thinks that they could be seen to give one inch to a woman on the question of returning Iranian asylum seekers is in cloud cuckoo land. And any promise they did make could be ignored because it was a promise made to a woman, which doesn't count. It might not be palatable, but if she was seeking a result on the returning of asylum seekers rather than a photo op., she'd have been far better to have sent her assistant - male - minister.

Oh my God! I've just seen on Bolta that she wore as silly Matador's hat as well as the veil. Cringeworthy.

capt.cynical 19th Apr 2015 03:57

I was wondering where she parked her BROOM.

MTOW 19th Apr 2015 21:16

The ABC could hardly hide their excitement this morning announcing that the Iranians had (gasp!) agreed to share "intelligence" with Australia in our shared battle against ISIS.

Why do I expect that sifting the disinformation from the information - the chaff from the wheat - will be a full time job for the Australians.

And what, I wonder, undisclosed by Ms Bishop, did we offer them in return?

Re the poor diddums complaining about police brutality: isn't it amazing how quick they are to use the freedoms to complain and the legal system here - the very things they want to replace - when it's to their advantage.

He says he and his family were scared. Good. I hope he retains that memory very, very clearly for the next forty years.

mickjoebill 19th Apr 2015 23:30

Our foot in mouth PM has done it again,
"We had some arrests over the weekend of people who were planning a terrorist event on anzac day"

5 people were detained only one charged so far.
Why bother with a trial if the PM asserts they are guilty!


rh200 20th Apr 2015 00:10

"We had some arrests over the weekend of people who were planning a terrorist event on anzac day"

Why bother with a trial if the PM asserts they are guilty!
My bit nit picky arnt we. What was he supposed to put in, where accused of or something like that?

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