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Saltie 12th Jan 2015 11:37

Have you ever lived in Malaysia, Chuboy? Multiculturalism works a treat there - the Indians do the hard yakka, the Chinese make the money and the Malays reap most of the benefit. It would be the most unfair system I have ever seen, with the possible exception to the old South Africa.

Stanwell 12th Jan 2015 12:34

chuboy,
Short memory, my friend.
The Bali Bombing ring a bell?

chuboy 12th Jan 2015 21:56


Originally Posted by Saltie (Post 8821767)
Have you ever lived in Malaysia, Chuboy? Multiculturalism works a treat there - the Indians do the hard yakka, the Chinese make the money and the Malays reap most of the benefit. It would be the most unfair system I have ever seen, with the possible exception to the old South Africa.

My point was that despite the mix of religions in that country, life goes on for everyone. The inequality is a different matter and exists in some form or another in every country regardless of racial diversity.

RE the bali bombing, who could forget that. The perpetrators did have Arabic roots though, and the attack was financed by al-Qaeda. And there has been nothing like it since. Contrast with countries closer to Mecca, explosions there happen so often you don't read about them until page 24... :suspect:

Andu 12th Jan 2015 22:33

So chuboy, re Malaysia and its "inequalities" you're basically saying that, so long as it works, it's fine and beaut for one section of society to have more rights than others so long as the others are happy to cop it sweet and provide those rights - at their expense - to the lucky ones?

Do you mean things like:

- everyone pays a little extra for their food so that it can have a stamp on it saying its suitable for consumption by the self-elected special people?

- public swimming pools are blocked off on certain days so that the women of the self-elected special people can have a swim without any non-special people (whose rates pay for the pool) can catch a glimpse of them?

- public streets blocked every Friday while the special people pray in the streets?

- the women of the special people are allowed special privileges, like keeping their faces covered in banks and airports, where any non-special people attempting to do so would be denied access and probably arrested as a security risk?

I won't even get started on the perks of being a Bumi Putra in Malaysia, like lower interest rates, preferred housing, education and scholarships, Bumi-only jobs to name just a few, that are not available to non-Malay citizens whose families have lived in Malaya/Malaysia for many generations.

megan 13th Jan 2015 13:47

Andu, you forgot to mention to chuboy that in Malaysia the Muslim Sharia court has supremacy over and above the civil court that the rest of the plebs are subject to.

chuboy 13th Jan 2015 20:38

Andu, never said inequality was fine. But inequality is not unique to countries inhabited by muslims. Something which you seem to have overlooked.

How many countries allow a select portion of citizens to get married but not others? The justification for such a rule is the appeal to tradition, one which fundamentally imposes religious views on everyone.

Hell, forget marriage. How many (Christian) countries still outright ban homosexuality?

There are parts of the USA where it is technically illegal for atheists to hold public office.

Western countries are far from eligible to hold a moral high ground as far as discrimination is concerned. The problem exists independent of Muslims.

By the way I'm not sure which of your rather petty complaints supports your contention that Muslims have greater rights than others. Are Hindu women banned from swimming pools on ladies day, or is it simply a male-free zone on certain days (similar to spas on Germany)? What types of food in Malaysia cost more because of halal certification? I haven't tried wearing a burqa to circumvent the requirement to identify myself before passing through immigration at KLIA, nor have I used a bank branch in years, so I can't comment on that.

Your comment about bumi puteras is irrelevant because it does not afford greater rights to Muslim people exclusively. Whether it is a fair policy is not the topic of discussion.

Interesting that Malaysians must identify as Muslim or non-Muslim on their ID cards, in order to establish the applicability of sharia law. Based on the hysteria in the thread you would think sharia law would apply to everyone considering how many muzzers live in the country.

MTOW 13th Jan 2015 23:35

chuboy, I think you'll find that in his comments about closed off public swimming pools for 'special people' on certain days and being allowed into banks and airports with the face covered Andu was not referring to Malaysia, but Australia.

Isn't there a local council in Melbourne that has spent $40,000 on a curtain over the windows in their local swimming pool to give the muslim women privacy from passing males on their muslim women only swimming mornings?

Oh, and could you define 'petty' please?

chuboy 14th Jan 2015 01:04


Originally Posted by MTOW (Post 8824080)
chuboy, I think you'll find that in his comments about closed off public swimming pools for 'special people' on certain days and being allowed into banks and airports with the face covered Andu was not referring to Malaysia, but Australia.

I understood him to be talking about Malaysia. Either way my response is the same.


Isn't there a local council in Melbourne that has spent $40,000 on a curtain over the windows in their local swimming pool to give the muslim women privacy from passing males on their muslim women only swimming mornings?
I wouldn't know. Who really cares if the swimming pool made a free decision to spend the money? Let me guess, it also bothers you that shops pay contractors put up and take down Christmas decorations even though you don't personally believe in Jesus?


Oh, and could you define 'petty' please?
I mean petty as in surely if the Islamic invasion is as bad as they say worse things would be happening to Malaysian people?

As an aside, I was in Kuala Lumpur late last year and found the Christmas decorations in the shopping centres there to be more extensive and magnificent than in any Christian country I have had the pleasure of visiting :confused:

Ethel the Aardvark 14th Jan 2015 11:39

Didn't take long for Tony Dum Dum to bring out the sick tax.
Is there any chance that he will bring out something that may get voted through.
Meanwhile Peter Dumber has been voted by the medical fraternity the worst health minister in living memory, even exceeding Dum Dums effort.

rh200 14th Jan 2015 12:20

Ethel!

Perhaps you might have a solution to the black hole that is Medicare, and only growing. Its all well and good to criticize, but a solution would be good.

porch monkey 14th Jan 2015 13:45

Rh, are you drunk? Surely you know they don't do solutions. They proved that last time they were in charge.:mad:

Andu 14th Jan 2015 19:49

I honestly don't think Ethel is old enough to vote yet. At least, I hope so.

Ethel, as I've said before, your comments might be considered cutting-edge wit in the lunch room at YoungGetUp, but for most people over 18 years of age, they come across as puerile.

How would you fix the bottomless pit that is Medicare? Borrow more?

RJM 14th Jan 2015 19:52

Ethel, if Prime Minister Abbott and Minister for Health Dutton are Dum Dum and Dumber, what were Gillard and Roxon? (Not their questionable personal characteristics, but their performance as PM and minister.)

Andu 14th Jan 2015 20:07

chuboy, re the earlier exchange of posts: I was referring to Australia, not Malaysia.


-----

Re Malaysia: when I lived there the first time (early 70s), our neighbours had a amah (more or less a child minder), a young, incredibly competent, well-spoken - (her English was excellent; not the almost pigeon English many employed) - and very intelligent young woman, who, at a guess, would have been around 19. She was Chinese, a Christian, and much loved by all in the Australian family she worked for. I spoke to her one day when we were visiting the neighbours and asked her why she was working as an amah and not going on to university, as she was quite obviously capable of much more.

Her short answer, as if she was speaking to an idiot, explained her situation (in her mind) completely. "University? I'm Chinese."

I was quite new to the country at the time and asked the neighbour later to explain. I wasn't that Chinese Malaysians stopped their daughters going to university. Quite the opposite - they encouraged it, and those who could afford to send their children to higher education paid for them to do so. But poor Malaysian Chinese, (as Mary's family was), had no access to university or higher education. All government assistance for that went to Bumis.

I had a Malaysian friend who was married to an Australian woman. His parents, (Chinese/Indian ethnically) took advantage of the offer to convert and become Bumi Putras when it was offered at the time of federation. they did so purely to give him access to higher education. This decision had paid off handsomely. He was sent to Australia to complete his education, where he met his wife.

chuboy 15th Jan 2015 03:59

andu, my mistake.

It's always interesting to hear the experiences of others. I can't deny that the policy of bumi puteras is inconsistent with what we consider acceptable in the west. Nevertheless, you'll have to forgive my cynicism for your sudden championing for social equality. Take Muslims out of the picture and I doubt anyone here would care all that much. Unless the WASPs still happened to be the oppressed ones ;)

Domestically, yet another phail from Abbott and Co. After the outgoing health minister hospital-passed a ticking bomb to Sussan Ley in the form of a "Medicare cut", we have been treated to a spectacle the populace should be used to seeing by now - that is, outrage in the news media for about 24-48 hours followed by a spectacular reversal from the instigator of some controversial policy or statement. :E

I'll preempt Ethel's image spamming with one from my own collection. See if you can get the symbolism :ok:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...leLarge-v5.jpg

Granted, it's a bit subtle if you only speak Australian English...

How about these if the above went over your head?
http://i.imgur.com/bsmULja.jpghttp://i1.trekearth.com/photos/25075/backflip.jpg


In all seriousness though, how is anyone supposed to take this government seriously if they have the bark of a guard dog but the bite of a wet lettuce leaf and the tenacity of a startled rabbit? All-in-all they come off about as rock-solid as a sea cucumber, not good when stability was one of the key images the Coalition wanted to project.

Even when back-flipping on undesirable decisions and policies (and there has been plenty of backflipping on promises which the people did want too), the government remains as unpopular as ever - only now they lack credibility as well.

Tony was overwhelmingly voted in off the back of Labor's squabbling and a well-funded media campaign - not because people everywhere liked him or his team - and it's starting to show. The LNP has lost one state election so far and QLD MPs can take nothing for granted. It's not the end of the road yet, but the proof is in the pudding. "One-term Tony" sounds less and less like the enthusiastic chants of Labor supporters every day.

RJM 15th Jan 2015 06:15

I have to agree, chuboy.

I'm a conservative voter and was very relieved when the LNP won the last election, but I'm becoming disillusioned and frustrated with their performance - at least with the perception of their performance given by the media.

At present, I think the media (with the exception of the ABC/Fairfax axis) is reasonably well-disposed to the LNP.

Those in the know say the LNP government is doing much good work that's not reported. If that's the case, why isn't it getting better press? It seems that the government is not selling what good work it's doing, to the press particularly.

While the government is disappointing its supporters (back flipping on changing S 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act, for example) it isn't doing much, if any, damage control to counter the disappointment.

Abbott seems to trust that people will 'do the math' for themselves, and realise what a good outfit he is leading without him having to sell himself or his crew. And if Abbott's failing to convince traditional LNP supporters, how is he going to convince the swinging voters whose votes he needs to stay in government?

I think Abbott's wrong, or at least, poorly advised. Rudd managed to sell a terrible product (himself) by convincing people he had the answers. Gillard simply attacked any opposition.

Abbott is neither selling nor attacking. As a result, a union puppet and sly operator like Shorten is looking like an alternative, when Labor should be in the doghouse for at least the next decade.

Abbott is starting to look spineless - a fatal fault in Australian politics. He needs a kick in the arse. The problem is, he'd probably just turn the other cheek.

Pinky the pilot 15th Jan 2015 06:21

chuboy; I really have to agree as well. And I have never voted Labor.

Never will either but?????

The alternatives are slim to non existant and the informal vote is a cop-out.

So what do you do?:confused::confused:


RJM: Thank you.:ok: You said what I was thinking but could not put into words.

RJM 15th Jan 2015 06:31

Glad to oblige, Pinky. :(

parabellum 15th Jan 2015 06:45

Sorry but I think you people are being just a tad too impatient.


The bad news and hard budget had to come in the first half of the LNP tenure, the opposition are deliberately dragging it out as long as possible. They, (the opposition), have no interest in the Australian people, only position, power, perks and pensions for themselves and will go to great lengths to achieve this, stuff the country and stuff the people.


I agree it is a shame that the LNP don't do a better PR job for themselves at the moment, but people have short memories and what will count is refreshing the minds of the electorate just before the next election with what they have achieved and what a complete stuff up the ALP made the last time they were in. If they don't do that then I too will be very disappointed in them.

Ethel the Aardvark 15th Jan 2015 06:56

What they are backing down, no way!!!
who would of thought it. Knock me over with a feather..
Awaiting the next well thought out plan!


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