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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 9th Jan 2015 20:20

ramble on, I think if you were able to check the place of birth of the 10,000 young men you saw marching in Melbourne, you'd find that a significant number of them were born in Australia.

That is quite possibly our ('our' being non-Muslim Australians) biggest problem. Unlike earlier waves of immigrants, who have all followed the 'three generation rule', where the third generation end up as much Australian as of their grandparents' culture, too many of the second generation of Muslim immigrants have become more alienated from mainstream, secular Australian society than their parents, many of whom were content to live the quiet life here, knowing how lucky they were to escape the troubles plaguing the countries they came from.

The mistake many of that first generation made was to idealise and embellish how wonderful life had been in their home countries to their children in a perhaps misguided attempt to stop their children straying too far into Australian secular life. Whereas the earlier waves of immigrants eventually melded into mainstream Australian society (to be fair and honest, sometimes not without difficulty), too many of the Muslims who have come here are going out of their way to prevent this melding taking place - unless the 'meld' involves mainstream Australia accepting - and adopting - the way of life of the Muslim immigrants.

What's utterly amazing is that there are some 'mainstream, secular Australians', almost entirely on the Left side of Australian politics (and even more incredibly, within the inner core of the feminist movement), who are advocating that mainstream Australia should accept and even welcome this. Almost every 'talking head' on our national broadcaster, (who seem to see their mission in life to be to enlighten the redneck bogans - us - who make up mainstream Australia), could be included in this group.

SOPS 10th Jan 2015 19:19

Here we go, they are well and truely amongst us now.


I'm getting a little bit worried. If I thought Tony would take some strong action, I would not be, but based upon recent events, and his last PC nonsense letter to me, I fear that these whackos will be allowed to run free and create death and destruction.

MTOW 11th Jan 2015 00:18

ABC announcing that a permanent memorial will be erected in Martin Place to commemorate the Lindt attack. This shows a total lack of understanding of the mindset of the people who are attacking us. THEY will turn the memorial into a place of celebration where they can remember and praise a 'martyr' to their cause.

We really have to get the message across to Tony Abbott that we are at war with an enemy who is very much within our gates - and that that enemy is fighting his war using a very different set of rules to the ridiculously restrictive self-imposed rules we are (not!) fighting by. To borrow a phrase from Mao Tze Deng (sp?), the guerrilla army survives only when it can swim like fish in the sea - i.e., when it has a support base that will protect it and in which it can remain undetected. Far too many of the so-called moderate muslims within our society are providing that 'sea' in which the radical 'fish' can survive and prosper.

But first, we have to convince Tony Abbott that we are in a state of war. Something he doesn't seem to have accepted yet.

Fliegenmong 11th Jan 2015 08:07

They be trying to denigrate her...
....and I can undertstand why...never taking the time to understand or appreciate someone who is less well off than themselves, or apprantly from a lower social standing than themselves...and given, she has portrayed herself very poorly in the past, a true Bogan in fact (To be expected of Oz Army I suppose :rolleyes:) I personally think the Senator is correct!

Jacqui Lambie questions why treason charges havent been laid against Junaid Thorne | Daily Mail Online

I really do...why not lay treason charges?

I don't know what Tony Abbott has been hiding in those budgie smugglers....clearly not balls.....:suspect:

Takan Inchovit 11th Jan 2015 08:14

Perhaps the ALP sympathisers would block any attempt do do so.

Fliegenmong 11th Jan 2015 08:15

'These savages hate our democratic way of life, which attempts to accommodate difference of political opinion, thought, freedom of speech and religion, while trying to respect basic human rights,' she said.

'So the time has come for ordinary Australians to wake up. The time has come for the Abbott Government to act swiftly and deal decisively with these traitorous individuals.'

So come on Tony!!!, stand up Son, be counted, make a difference, call him on it, make International News not for being bumbling idiot who'd 'shirt front' a leader of a super power, only to embarrass yourself and a nation....stand up....make a difference.....

Oh sorry forgot....it's all about you doing what you can for you.......I suppose yout take tea with krudd and dullard huh? There sure ain't much between you!!!

Fliegenmong 11th Jan 2015 08:17

Perhaps the ALP sympathisers would block any attempt do do so.

Maybe they would....maybe they would not.....maybe allow them the chance to do so Takan!

SOPS 11th Jan 2015 08:25

I have to say, I agree with her on this one. So, come on Tony, how about it?

Fliegenmong 11th Jan 2015 08:35

I'm not so caught up in this being PC to turn a blind eye to this sort of BS, he's a traitor, not just to us here in Oz, but to all our western brethern.....

Ball well and truly in your court Tony.....stand up for us, or forever hold your peace.....oh hang on.....freedom of speach is not something you care to defend anyway is it??

Crikey: Je ne suis pas Charlie | Plane Talking

I kinda like Ben, he calls out people like Joyce and Clifford on their failures, whereas the likes of Abbott like to receive money from Joyce and Clifford....:ugh:

:= Disgraceful Mr Budgie Smuggler!!!....your chance of some redemption has been handed you upon a platter by someone who you would ordinarily scorn....let us see what you are made of.....:hmm:

rh200 11th Jan 2015 09:31

Oh my, a lot of armchair lawyers here!. If there is anything realistic they could do to him they would.

Even if they could it would be a practical waste of time, laws in theory work for a reason. For this type of thing unless you can get draconian it achieves nothing. These people don't respect our laws, and people they care about don't respect our laws.

The only thing that would make a difference to extremists is if they started mysteriously ending up in ditches at the hands of our local moderate Muslims.

BabyBear 11th Jan 2015 09:44

Originally Posted by rh200
Even if they could it would be a practical waste of time

I'm not so sure?

Let's hope his name is never included in an official statement along with the words 'the perpetrator was know to the authorities'.

There are far too many of such statements for my liking.

Clare Prop 11th Jan 2015 10:19

Thorne is aboriginal so would scream racism. Blimey, even Saudi Arabia didn't want him!

I understand that elections are won or lost in Western Sydney. That would of course be far more important than silly little things like national security. Mustn't upset these people must we.

SOPS 11th Jan 2015 10:42

And that's the point Clare. A small group, some members of which, would like to see us all dead, holds an enormous amount of electoral power. So much so, that none of our political leaders have the balls to call a spade a spade.

So we have the PM, sending me PC rubbish emails, while we have killers that have come back from Syria wandering happily around Sydney.

Something is very very wrong.

Andu 11th Jan 2015 10:45

The only thing that would make a difference to extremists is if they started mysteriously ending up in ditches at the hands of our local moderate Muslims.
Careful what you wish for. I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the real movers and shakers behind an Islamic takeover of the West aren't horrified at the antics of the crazies who by their attacks are removing the blinkers of the useful idiots in the West and also making it almost impossible for Western politicians to continue to ignore that takeover.

Why? Because steady as she goes, both by vastly higher birth rates along with immigration, both legal and illegal, are proving to be wildly successful in achieving their aims without waking the populations of the slumbering, politically correct to a fault host.

Even after these attacks, the vast majority of the Western political leadership along with the 'free' (but actually self-censoring) media refuse to see, no matter how blatant the evidence to the contrary, that there is anything that needs to be addressed. But if the attacks continue, maybe the cosy status quo might be threatened.

So maybe the bodies of a few of the crazy muzzies might start appearing in ditches. And for us - those whose blinkers have already been removed - that might be the very worst thing that could happen, for the pollies and the Leftie media could then, as they have steadfastly done to date, continue to ignore the invasion. For that's what it is.

bosnich71 11th Jan 2015 21:48

Andu .... problem with " the bodies of a few crazy muzzies appearing in ditches" is that the Crazy Far Right Nutters" would soon be blamed for the deaths. Which is probably why your words will eventually come true.

chuboy 11th Jan 2015 22:31

Frankly any "Moderate Muslim" is as likely to end up in a ditch at the hands of a jihadist as your archetypical WASP, not the other way around.

Denouncing their actions is as good as being an infidel. If push ever comes to shove, the Muslims who just want to live out full and wholesome lives like almost everyone else will find themselves lumped together with the evil West.

Was there any remorse shown when it came to light that, in tragic irony, the cop they killed in Paris turned out to be a Muslim himself?

Unrelated to Australia as such, but saddest of all I think is the statistic that public perception of atheists in the USA is about the same as that of Muslims. What has that place come to? :(

MTOW 12th Jan 2015 08:39

Long, but worth the read, and after reading it, you might ask yourself if there’s another country that comes to mind that this situation applies to almost to a ‘t’?

Susan MacAllen is a contributing editor for (FamilySecurityMatters.org) Salute the Danish Flag - it's a Symbol of Western Freedom By Susan MacAllen

In 1978-9 I was living and studying in Denmark . But in 1978 - even in Copenhagen, one didn't see Muslim immigrants.

The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the exotic, went out of its way to protect each of its citizens. It was proud of its new brand of socialist liberalism one in development since the conservatives had lost power in 1929 - a system where no worker had to struggle to survive, where one ultimately could count upon the state as in, perhaps, no other western nation at the time.

The rest of Europe saw the Scandinavians as free-thinking, progressive and infinitely generous in their welfare policies. Denmark boasted low crime rates, devotion to the environment, a superior educational system and a history of humanitarianism.

Denmark was also most generous in its immigration policies - it offered the best welcome in Europe to the new immigrant: generous welfare payments from first arrival plus additional perks in transportation, housing and education. It was determined to set a world example for inclusiveness and multiculturalism. How could it have predicted that one day in 2005 a series of political cartoons in a newspaper would spark violence that would leave dozens dead in the streets -all because its commitment to multiculturalism would come back to bite?

By the 1990's the growing urban Muslim population was obvious - and its unwillingness to integrate into Danish society was obvious. Years of immigrants had settled into Muslim-exclusive enclaves. As the Muslim leadership became more vocal about what they considered the decadence of Denmark 's liberal way of life, the Danes - once so welcoming - began to feel slighted. Many Danes had begun to see Islam as incompatible with their long-standing values: belief in personal liberty and free speech, in equality for women, in tolerance for other ethnic groups, and a deep pride in Danish heritage and history.

An article by Daniel Pipes and Lars Hedegaard, in which they forecasted, accurately, that the growing immigrant problem in Denmark would explode. In the article they reported:

'Muslim immigrants constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.'
'Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes.'

'Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane'

'Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem'

'Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect.. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.'

It is easy to understand why a growing number of Danes would feel that Muslim immigrants show little respect for Danish values and laws. An example is the phenomenon common to other European countries and Canada: some Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the Muslim faith have been murdered in the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives. Jews are also threatened and harassed openly by Muslim leaders in Denmark, a country where once Christian citizens worked to smuggle out nearly all of their 7,000 Jews by night to Sweden - before the Nazis could invade. I think of my Danish friend Elsa - who. as a teenager. had dreaded crossing the street to the bakery every morning under the eyes of occupying Nazi soldiers - and I wonder what she would say today.

In 2001, Denmark elected the most conservative government in some 70 years - one that had some decidedly non-generous ideas about liberal unfettered immigration. Today Denmark has the strictest immigration policies in Europe . ( Its effort to protect itself has been met with accusations of 'racism' by liberal media across Europe - even as other governments struggle to right the social problems wrought by years of too-lax immigration.)

If you wish to become Danish, you must attend three years of language classes.

You must pass a test on Denmark 's history, culture, and a Danish language test .

You must live in Denmark for 7 years before applying for citizenship.

You must demonstrate an intent to work, and have a job waiting.

If you wish to bring a spouse into Denmark , you must both be over 24 years of age, and you won't find it so easy anymore to move your friends and family to Denmark with you.

You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen Although your children have a choice of some 30 Arabic culture and language schools in Denmark, they will be strongly encouraged to assimilate to Danish society in ways that past immigrants weren't

In 2006, the Danish minister for employment, Claus Hjort Frederiksen, spoke publicly of the burden of Muslim immigrants on the Danish welfare system, and it was horrifying: the government's welfare committee had calculated that if immigration from Third World countries were blocked, 75 percent of the cuts needed to sustain the huge welfare system in coming decades would be unnecessary In other words, the welfare system, as it existed, was being exploited by immigrants to the point of eventually bankrupting the government. 'We are simply forced to adopt a new policy on immigration'.

'The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now,' he said.

A large thorn in the side of Denmark 's imams is the Minister of
Immigration and Integration, Rikke Hvilshoj.. She makes no bones about the new policy toward immigration, 'The number of foreigners coming to the country makes a difference,' Hvilshoj says, 'There is an inverse correlation between how many come here and how well we can receive the foreigners that come.' And on Muslim immigrants needing to demonstrate a willingness to blend in, 'In my view, Denmark should be a country with room for different cultures and religions. Some values, however, are more important than others. We refuse to question democracy, equal rights, < I>and freedom of speech.'

Hvilshoj has paid a price for her show of backbone.. Perhaps to test her resolve, the leading radical imam in Denmark, Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu Laban, demanded that the government pay blood money to the family of a Muslim who was murdered in a suburb of Copenhagen, stating that the family's thirst for revenge could be thwarted for money. When Hvilshoj dismissed his demand, he argued that in Muslim culture the payment of retribution money was common, to which Hvilshoj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done in Denmark.

The Muslim reply came soon after: her house was torched while she, her husband and children slept. All managed to escape unharmed, but she and her family were moved to a secret location and she and other ministers were assigned bodyguards for the first time - in a country where such murderous violence was once so scarce.

Her government has slid to the right, and her borders have tightened.

Many believe that what happens in the next decade will determine whether Denmark survives as a bastion of good living, humane thinking and social responsibility, or whether it becomes a nation at civil war with supporters of Sharia law.

And meanwhile, Canadians clamor for stricter immigration policies, and demand an end to state welfare programs that allow many immigrants to live on the public dole. As we in Canada look at the enclaves of Muslims amongst us, and see those who enter our shores too easily, dare live on our taxes, yet refuse to embrace our culture, respect our traditions, participate in our legal system, obey our laws, speak our language, appreciate our history ... we would do well to look to Denmark , and say a prayer for her future and for our own.

Takan Inchovit 12th Jan 2015 09:35

I'm just wondering why Singapore doesn't have the same islamic problem that the rest of the world is having, it is next to a couple of large islamic run countries ...... I think I know the answer.

Andu 12th Jan 2015 10:59

...could that be that they don't take merde from anyone?

Some might not be aware that in the original agreement where the British gave independence to the Malay States towards the end of the quaintly named 12 year long "Malayan Emergency", Singapore was originally part of the newly minted Malaysia. The Chinese, no dummies, quite quickly saw what would become of them in a Muslim State, so, much to the consternation of the British, they opted out. (The British, to buy the loyalty of the Malays in the bitter fight to defeat the mainly Chinese Communist terrorists (or "C.T.'s", as they were called), drew up a constitution for the new Malaysian state that was, to put it in today's terms, unbelievably racist, giving the Muslim Malays, or Bumi Putras ("Sons of the Soil"), unbelievable rights over the Chinese and Indians, who made up approximately 60% of the population of Malaya/Malaysia. (Both the Indians and the Chinese had been imported or allowed to settle in Malaya during the years of British rule.)

This situation where Malays - (or, to be more accurate, "Bumis", Malays and non-Malays who converted to Islam for the few short years when conversion gave those non-Malays "Bumi" rights; that was withdrawn a few years after Malaysia was established) - enjoy rights in every facet of their lives that the Chinese and Indians do not exists to this day, which makes anyone familiar with now retired Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohamad repeatedly accuse Australia of being racist.

Those complaining today about immigrants to the West in current times of a certain religious persuasion bludging on the system on a wholesale basis and who are also familiar with the long-standing relationship between the Malays and the Chinese in Malaysia might find a few parallels that those whose lives and opinions are ruled by Political Correctness would studiously ignore and refuse to see.

chuboy 12th Jan 2015 10:59

None of those Islamic countries are filled with disenfranchised Arabs, that's why. Islamic violence all over the world originates in the Middle East not too far along the line. You lot are not worried about a growing Malaysian terror threat after all. IMO Malaysia is a prime example of multiculturalism involving Islamism that has worked quite well. Even Indonesia is peaceful relative to comparably Muslim countries like say Pakistan.

There is some geopolitics mixed in as well. Islamic extremism is not the black and white issue that zealots make it out to be.

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