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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

SOPS 29th Jun 2012 15:54

Hey Andu mate!! Guess what?? At 00.10 am EST reports of another "leaky boat" in trouble.

Im willing to start a "book" with you. Each week, whover guesses nearest to the number of arrivals and leaks, wins a carton and a jar of jelly beans:p

For the week starting July 1, Im going for 5 arrivals including 3 "leaks":ok:

RJM 29th Jun 2012 23:17

Gillard's taken a hell of a chance. 6 weeks, no Parliament and every boat arrival will be discussed in the media and around the water cooler, not in Parliament. From what's been said, she didn't use every opportunity to try to get agreement on some change in strategy at least. Now she'll be a lightning rod for criticism every time another boat turns up. Gillard seems to stumble at every hurdle.

Wiley 29th Jun 2012 23:41

Isn't there an old (possibly THE oldest) saying in politics that "you don't hold a Royal Commission unless you already know the answer"?

With that in mind, what's the feeling here regarding Angus Houston's committee and the recommendations it will make to this government? Will Angus put his name to anything even remotely controversial? (For let's face facts: it's going to take the implementation of measures that will be more than a little controversial to undo, let alone fix the current mess that Rudd and Gillard introduced for no other reason than to make themselves look good to an international audience that, as far as I can see, didn't - and doesn't - care one whit either way.)

I know Angus - (or perhaps, to be more accurate, I should say I knew him well many years ago when we were boggies). There's no doubt he's a very able man, but he's always been part politician - you don't make it to the very top in the ADF if you're not. I don't think I'm the only one who thought that he bypassed one or two more able (and more senior) men to achieve the CAF position because he was a better politician than they were. And before anyone gets offended by that comment, perhaps I should add that maybe the job demanded someone who was part politician.

Which brings me back to my question: with my first paragraph in mind, is there anyone out there who thinks Angus will deliver a recommendation or recommendations that will in any way clash with Julia Gillard's current (for want of a better word) "policies"?

If he does, I don't think I'm alone in believing his committee's recommendations will be roundly ignored, so I fear that in accepting this task, he's putting himself firmly between the proverbial rock and a hard place and in a classic no win situation, for anything that works is going to cause some (of the "SHY" variety, for example), to be outraged.

I wish you well in this latest endeavour, Goose, and hope you can come up with an answer that will work.

Andu 29th Jun 2012 23:58

Another boat...

Four vessels arrive in 48 hours as the political impasse on asylum seeker crisis continues

AS the political impasse on the asylum seeker crisis continued yesterday, so did the refugee parade - with a fourth boat in just 48 hours picked up in Australian waters.

The latest boat, carrying 41 people, was intercepted north east of Ashmore Islands last night, bringing to 1641 the number of asylum seekers to arrive this month alone.
It will be very interesting to see what the total number of new arrivals will be between now and six weeks later, when parliament resumes. At the current rate of arrivals, they might need that MCG we were assured we'd never fill to house them all.

Here's one opinion. From the Tim Blair blo_g:

The Lowy Institute’s Dr Khalid Koser reviews this week’s asylum seeker debacle and concludes:

Smugglers in Tehran, Kabul, and Colombo will be calling their middlemen in Indonesia and giving them the go-ahead. The message will be that this is the time to swamp the system; the Government is in paralysis and Australia’s borders are effectively open.

To keep track of any increases, note that 4662 asylum seekers arrived during the year until June 27. At that rate – 26 per day – we can expect another 1196 by the time Parliament resumes in August, or a total of 5858.

allan907 30th Jun 2012 01:17

is there anyone out there who thinks Angus will deliver a recommendation or recommendations that will in any way clash with Julia Gillard's current (for want of a better word) "policies"?
Given Flying Binghi's post (below) I would think that the chances of that would be extremely remote.

Kicking off what she called “the festival of Angus” with a farewell dinner at the Australian War Memorial, Ms Gillard declared: “.. Liz, I wanted to say to you tonight some words you might find quite hard to hear. And that is every woman I know is a little bit in love with your husband.

“I know that might be difficult news, but I’ve tested this proposition with the Governor-General, Quentin Bryce, who’s a little bit in love with your husband; I’m a little bit in love with your husband and Kate Harrison, who works in my office and was John Faulkner’s former chief of staff, is in love with your husband in almost an unseemly way!

“So every woman is a little bit in love with Angus. And we’re a little bit in love with Angus because of his qualities, and they just shine through.”
....unless Angus Houston has actually got some balls and reports what is good for the country as opposed to short term political favour.

The man isn't stupid and he must know that Gillard's time is very limited and that by siding with her in this matter would not only do the country harm it may also do him personal harm.

It's possible that, being air-minded the big bloke actually visits this site and, if he does, at least takes note of the comments and feelings.

Andu 30th Jun 2012 02:44

If Julia is sticking true to form, (the Timor 'solution' etc.) it's quite possible she hasn't asked Angus Houston if he'll take on the job yet. Personally, I think it's a poisoned chalice from whatever angle to look at it. There'll be no easy answer to this problem, (not even Tony Abbott's solution). If there was, (or, perhaps more accurately, if someone in the current government wanted to find a solution), someone would have acted on it long ago.

The only answer that may work will involve a huge amount of political willpower, and standing firm against a torrent of criticism from the MSM, the Watermelons and the Latte Left, something this government has displayed so far in just one direction, their "I promise that under a government I lead there will not be a" carbon tax.

When you consider how much the capabilities of the ADF were reduced* under Houston's watch, (*'gutted' was the first word that came to mind), if he was as good a leader as some here say he was, Julia Gillard, rather than be "a little bit in love with him", should have hated to see him come in her door, because if he was the good leader he was said to be, he should have been in her face daily complaining and complaining non stop about her (and her predecessors') policies that were gutting 'his' ADF.

criticalmass 30th Jun 2012 07:29

What would be the effect if the government were to remove all the naval patrol vessels, the surveillance aircraft and the other surface and air assets from the northwest and leave the area devoid of rescuers, welcoming committees etc?

My guess is after several boats of illegals simply vanished, or fetched up as wrecks on the Cocos or Christmas Island with great loss of life (and no entry to Australia, merely prompt repatriation to their port of departure as befitting shipwrecked mariners for any survivors), the flood would slow to a trickle. It might even stop altogether.

Australia is acting like a victim and going out of its way to find and "rescue" these people. If none of the rescuers were there in the first place, the problem might solve itself - and the relatives of the deceased might decide to wreak vengeance on the people-smugglers and their agents, middle-men etc.

Looking at the current situation it is hard not to come to conclude Federal Labor is receiving a financial kickback from the people-smugglers. I wonder if their accounts would withstand a forensic audit?

Flying Binghi 30th Jun 2012 07:59


Heh, poor ol Angus is gettin 'romanced' there.

Beware of sweet talkin red headed women with buttons for eyes...


Andu 30th Jun 2012 08:11

Had to laugh yesterday listening to the ABC's "Thank God It's Friday"... Oz comedian telling a story about entertaining Yank troops in Afghanistan and having to introduce a very good looking Australian female who followed his act. He told the Yanks that they should come on down to Australia "because all Australian women as as good looking as XXX," (whatever the name of the Aussie girl coming onstage).

A big Yank at the back of the audience yelled out "Oh no they're not. I've met your Prime Minister."

Even on the ABC, that got a politically incorrect laugh.

Lex Talionis 30th Jun 2012 10:36

Thought this might get a laugh from some here.


It is a slow day in a little Greek Village. The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.

On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a €100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.

The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the €100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the €100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the €100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmers' Co-op takes the €100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna. The publican slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him 'services' on credit. The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the €100 note.

The hotel proprietor then places the €100 note back on the counter so the rich German traveller will not suspect anything.

At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the €100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.

No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

And that is how the bailout package works.

RJM 30th Jun 2012 11:51

Isn't there a flaw in that - an initial theft of the money? Doesn't the supplier of the bailout money receive some interest or value for providing it?

criticalmass 30th Jun 2012 20:15

Getting back to the issue of what Angus Houston might put in his report, it really doesn't matter if he writes the truth or what the government wants him to write. A government lacking any sense of morality will simply re-write the conclusion before the report is released anyway - or not release it under various blanket security classifications which governments keep up their sleeves precisely for such events.

Under the present Labor federal shambles, any enquiry is already doomed to be a waste of time, taxpayers money, and intellectual effort.

RJM 30th Jun 2012 22:12

Hear, hear.

Worrals in the wilds 1st Jul 2012 00:53

Which brings me back to my question: with my first paragraph in mind, is there anyone out there who thinks Angus will deliver a recommendation or recommendations that will in any way clash with Julia Gillard's current (for want of a better word) "policies"?
Nope. On the rare chance it does, I think criticalmass is on the money.

We won't hear anything they don't want us to hear, because Gillard and friends are incapable of admitting that they cocked the whole thing up. Meanwhile there'll be more arrivals, more capsizing boats, more risk to our own Navy and Customs personnel and more deaths at sea.

Hope the pollies all enjoy their six week holiday. :mad:

Clare Prop 1st Jul 2012 00:59

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Day one, here we go.

90 million taxpayers bucks to save 3000 jobs.

"Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry economics director Greg Evans said the carbon tax had already disrupted the investment plans of many companies, "particularly energy-reliant processors and manufacturers ... We are going to continue to see more compensation arrangements put in place as the carbon tax impact is realised and it becomes clearer which jobs are at greater risk.

"We now have a ridiculous situation where the government is compensating businesses for the deliberate handicapping of their competitiveness," he added.

Captain Sand Dune 1st Jul 2012 01:35

Earlier on there was a debate about the impact of the Carbon tax. In true ABC style it featured one person speaking on behalf of NSW mining, and two from the Conservation Council. And guess who got the last word?

Julia is oft quoted as saying that there would be no Carbon tax under a government she leads. Well she was right wasn’t she – she doesn’t lead the government.

Captain Sand Dune 1st Jul 2012 01:41

Just watching that muppet Swan outside a shopping centre in Brisbane holding up various food items saying that it's all good coz the prices have not increased overnight.
Let's see what he has to say on the subject in six months time.
Going for a walk because if I stay I may throw my telly out the window.

Worrals in the wilds 1st Jul 2012 02:38

Just watching that muppet Swan outside a shopping centre in Brisbane holding up various food items saying that it's all good coz the prices have not increased overnight.
Well, they wouldn't, would they. :hmm:
It's Sunday and there aren't many deliveries, so that would be all the stuff that was already in the store.

Swanny should save the gloating until the transport and logistics companies start copping increased costs, passing them on to Wesfarmers/Woolies who'll pass them on to us.
He knows that as well as we do.

What do pollies earn again? What would he know about grocery price pressure anyway...:rolleyes:

eagle 86 1st Jul 2012 02:50

Popped into my favourite coffee shop this morning for a cuppa with the wife - lo and behold the price of a cup has gone up .50c. Now one of our few extravagances is a cup of coffee for each of us most days of the week. Pleasant to enjoy and discuss the day's events. By my mathematics .50c x 2 x 7 = $7.00 ie $2.00 short of the $9.00 the lobster promised my cost of living would go up per week as a result of the co2 tax. Labor has hooked most of the apathetic voters of Oz and is now reeling them in. You poor sods!!

eagle 86 1st Jul 2012 03:33

Whoops, I could be wrong - it has just started to sleet in my part of the world!! Heil to HRH the Lobster, Queen of Oz!!

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