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megan 5th Oct 2014 14:44

no wonder you lot can't keep it in perspective
And what perspective should I have regarding the above photo? An expression of religious freedom and its OK for example? After all, it's a practice sections of the religion are putting into practice. Seriously, I'm interested in your view Ethel.

Saltie 5th Oct 2014 20:19

Ethel, like all politicians, has turned avoiding answering hard questions into an art form. Remember the other question we never got an answer to? "What has the Rudd government done to warrant your support?"

While the Muslims, since arriving here in large numbers, have made an art form of the old phrase "the squeaky hinge gets the oil".

Ethel the Aardvark 6th Oct 2014 08:17

what more can I say, a person fully covered in their clothing of choice does not worry me at all. I have employed Muslim staff and apart from the daily prayer practises they are believe it or not just like you or me.
you should try to engage one sometime, I promise you the chance of one blowing up during conversation is very slim indeed.

just for Saltie again my view of Labor policies are that they would of been slightly better than the current Lib fiasco.
as you know labor gets in for a while, then Libs get in for a while unfortunately the current crop of Libs is beyond belief.
Tony Abbott?s foreign affairs disasters pass 40.
some are boll#cks but some certainly stick

rh200 6th Oct 2014 09:21


hey are believe it or not just like you or me
In what regards is that, they are human beings?
You remind me of that person from yester year, Peter Garret. him and his band undermining the cold war and giving aid and comfort to the enemy. What was that song, the Russians love their children to.

You could substitute Muslims for Russians, and that would be true, just before honor killing their insert "what female relative here". There is no doubt the majority of them are decent law abiding citizens who deserve peace and respect, but there is also no doubt there is a significant percentage who are extremists.

Pinky the pilot 6th Oct 2014 09:39

my view of Labor policies are that they would of been slightly better than the current Lib fiasco.
'Would of been...':confused:

Would have or would've :mad: and no I'm not being pedantic. Just using correct English.

And I have changed my mind in one respect with you Ethel.:ooh:
I am no longer of the opinion that you are a Labor staffer.

A greens one, more likely.

rh200; Well put.:ok:

MTOW 6th Oct 2014 19:13

This link arrived in my morning emails from a friend in Canberra.

Shorten trying to force multiculturalism and Islam down our throats

The article gives Bill Shorten a bit of a serve, but then has the letter below:

Recently, Dr Ghena Krayem, a Muslim academic agitator released her book titled, ”Islamic Family Law In Australia – To Recognise Or Not To Recognise”. This book promotes the concept of a dangerously divided pluralistic Australia. In other words it promotes the introduction of Sharia Law. Not only does it promote Sharia Law but, it has been given a green light by the Chief Justice of the Family Court in Australia, Justice Diana Bryant AO.

Diana Bryant’s support of this book caused a great deal of concern for a group of senior Australians who wrote to her in very courteous terms. They received a reply, treated with the greatest of courtesy, did their homework, and then wrote a second letter to Bryant laying out their qualified concerns.

23 August 2014
Ms Diana Bryant, AO,
Chief Justice,
Family Court of Australia,
305 William Street.,

Dear Ms Bryant,
Many thanks for your courteous reply to our letter re the book launch “Islamic Family Law in Australia”.

We have purchased and reviewed the subject book, in a joint discussion at our meeting of 40 senior Australians, (5 Jewish persons included), and we would like to make the following submission in contradiction of Dr.Krayem’s representations.

Firstly, when foreign migrants (minorities) choose Australia (a non-Islamic country) to be their home, then surely along with this decision comes the understanding that they and all subsequent children, do inherit and must abide by the legal systems/cultures of their new host country?

Unfortunately, unless one has read the Quran, Hadiths, Sura’s, (also read and reviewed by our group), most Australians innocently, are unaware of the true underlying nature of this doctrine and how “Sharia” forms (along with Halal) the start of Islamic people’s desire to disassociate from these responsibilities and to request concessions for changes in line with their doctrine/faith, as no other race or religious peoples have sought to do! To consider “Pluralism” (surely another word for parallel?) as Dr. Krayem suggests, must surely create chaos and a logistical nightmare, if as suggested ‘minorities’ such as Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism are allowed to run additional but disparate systems alongside Australian Law?

The important question here is, do any of these other ‘faiths’ require this concession or is it only Islam??

Dr. Krayem references a number of Academics and Philosophers to support her Sharia argument, however there are any number of reputable rebuttal scholars available, able to provide damning evidence to contradict her theories. We believe it is imperative that before any consideration could possibly be made, a must read is, “Reliance of the Traveller” a Classic Manual of Islamic Sacred Law, and comprehensive guide to Sharia. Extremely informative for non-Muslims! Additional reference books that provide greater insight into Sharia and Islam, are by Australian Dr. Mark Durie.

On reviewing Dr. Krayem’s book, the following observations are made!

• This book only talks about the “rights of minorities”, although we cannot recall hearing any complaints in the last 50 years from other religious minorities who have settled in Australia! i.e. Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, all living within our existing State liberal legal system. Is this because these ‘faiths’ are just that?? They are purely religions, whereas Islam is a totalitarian doctrine, i.e. Legal, political and plus religion?

• Unfortunately globally it appears that the Western World is allowing this one doctrine to alter the rights and freedoms (speech to name just one) of the majority host peoples, in favour of this one minority in the name of “Multiculturalism”! How do the majority indigenous peoples get to defend the loss of these rights when well meaning policies are decided for them, generally without consultation to the general public??

• Using Canada and UK to support Dr. Krayem’s cause, Canada it appears less accommodating than UK, but UK now experiencing huge Muslim/Islamic problems, and an undercover video demonstrates Sharia Councils administering exactly the model that this book is espousing, it clearly shows definite discrimination against women and children as compared to men! (link provided in my first letter)

• This is contrary to Dr. Krayem’s argument that the “public accommodation” of Sharia Family Law once granted, then “human rights values will be upheld because liberal democratic states are subject to many rights-protecting mechanisms, that would make it legally impossible to establish illiberal rule. Protection coming from civic education to develop a strong human rights culture”, and would be forced by threat of exposure and public opinion!!

However, this is debatable! This is a very closed secretive society, with (NSW Minister The Hon. Pru Goward, and social workers) publicly acknowledging that abuses against muslim women are occurring now on a daily basis, sadly seldom appearing in the media (FGM, forced marriages), and almost never penalised!!

• Krayem espouses, not seeking ‘full sharia’ compliance, (acknowledges from Canada/UK’s experience that public as a whole, too frightened by this concept????), but selective, i.e. family law/financial transactions?

• Why, if Sharia is so integral to the Muslim people’s “identity and cultural uniqueness” are they seeking only the implementation of a small part of it???? Is it because their belief is to start simply, then easier to slowly demand more, once established in our society? (Maybe as their percentage of population grows) to introduce the remaining “frightening” parts? As is occurring now in Iraq/Syria where IS is declaring “full sharia” compliance, with horrifying barbaric consequences to both Muslim and non-muslim alike???

Surely to acquaint oneself with a true knowledge of Islam, and all that this Doctrine embodies, is a fundamental responsibility? Making the time in no doubt a very busy schedule, is important to achieve a greater understanding of the values in the Islamic belief system, and can only assist in preventing, well-meaning Australians ‘in positions of power’ from innocently accommodating a 14th century supremacist doctrine to the detriment of the majority’s rights and best interests!

Yours Sincerely,


cc. The Hon. Senator Brandis. The Hon. Warren Truss.

Breathlessly awaiting your reply, Ethel.

BenThere 6th Oct 2014 19:28

Nothing like a bit of brainwashing
As yours has been washed, I lend you some credibility on this topic from an experience standpoint. But as your brain seems to have been washed, your recent postings are extremely suspect, as they can generally be discredited on their face by anyone with any sense of logic.

Also, does your defense of religious freedom extend to honor killings?

7x7 6th Oct 2014 20:39

Two more interesting articles from the same website that MTOW linked in his post.

Men Bernardi Australian defence ? News

Moral equivalence Andrew Leigh ? News

Lone_Ranger 6th Oct 2014 20:43

apart from the daily prayer practises they are believe it or not just like you or me
They most certainly are not.
Ethel are you Muslim yourself, or just effing stupid?

John Hill 6th Oct 2014 20:48

Ben There

Also, does your defense of religious freedom extend to honor killings?
Do you have a problem with killing folks generally or just killing in defence of what you believe in?

BenThere 6th Oct 2014 20:58

Do you have a problem with killing folks generally or just killing in defence of what you believe in?
A fair question. I have a huge problem with killing folks generally. And, as general killing seems to be the proclivity of a significant segment of the followers of Mohammed, I have a problem with that.

Also, general killing is a trait of socialism in the 20th century. Do you have a problem with general killing, John?

I would kill to defend my right to believe in what I choose, if that is your question.

John Hill 6th Oct 2014 21:03

I would kill to defend my right to believe in what I choose, if that is your question.
Obviously then if you were born into a culture that promotes honour killings you would be right there along with the other zealots.

Lone_Ranger 6th Oct 2014 21:09

I think Ben just made a poor choice of words, the meaning I got was he would defend to the death, freedom of speech against those that would try to quell it....which isnt the same as killing people who believe something different to your beliefs

BenThere 6th Oct 2014 21:14

Nor exactly, John. I would kill to defend, not assert. I'd like to think that if I had been born into a culture that justified honor killing, I would have the cerebral cognizance to recognize the wrongness of it and reject it.

I always am grateful that I was born where I was, when I was. I can't imagine the stark emptiness of one who would cheer on a stoning, beheading, or the murder of a sister or daughter.

Lone Ranger, appreciate the defense, but I stand by defending my right to my beliefs (thoughts), even to the point of violence to defend. I have no problem with others' beliefs so long as they don't impact my beliefs, or my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Andu 6th Oct 2014 21:32

apart from the daily prayer practises they are believe it or not just like you or me
If you believe that, (as you obviously do), do yourself an enormous favour and watch the link below.

Video: Islam in Britanistan: Undercover Mosque | The Muslim Issue

If all you do, watch/listen to the few moments following 11min 25sec into the video. It's a pretty clear-cut opinion of a senior British Islamist cleric on the status of women. I wish there was some way I could sit Sarah Hanson-Young (and all the other feministas who champion Islam) down to watch and listen to the 60 seconds that follow 11:25 into that tape.

Andu 6th Oct 2014 22:01

On the link above, 36:15 to 41:30 is also interesting.

John Hill 6th Oct 2014 23:30

BenThere, when you say you would kill to defend your right to believe in what you choose you are saying that your beliefs are more important to you than the lives of others.

rh200 6th Oct 2014 23:41

BenThere, when you say you would kill to defend your right to believe in what you choose you are saying that your beliefs are more important to you than the lives of others.
How important the lives of others are, is just a belief as well! As such chnages across cultures and situation.

bosnich71 7th Oct 2014 06:53

The R.C. into "Trade Unions being naughty" has announced that the commission will continue into next year.In part it stated the following..........
" the inquiry thus far has revealed evidence of criminal conduct which includes widespread instances of physical and verbal violence, cartel conduct, secondary boycotts, contempt of court and other institutional orders and the encouragement of others to commit these contempts. Some officials appear to regard their unions as having immunity not only from the norms and sanctions of the Australian legal system, but also from any social or community standard shared by other Australians".

Attorney General Brandis later went on to say .....
"it is very plain that the problem of criminality and the associations between certain unions and certain union officials is a much more widespread problem than appeared to be the case".
No doubt Ethel will be along later to pour scorn on this non event.

7x7 7th Oct 2014 09:30

The female (Lisa Zanetta?) who admitted to perjury under oath. How long will she wait before the police come knocking on her door?

Quite a while, I suspect, if the speed VicPol have displayed before moving on Julia Gillard's role in the slush fund and the disappeared Kalgoorlie miners' widows' and orphans' funds is anything to go by.

Ms Zanetta at least looks like she could pull the young and nave defence with a bit more credibility than JEG.

Not a lot though.

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