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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

SOPS 27th Jun 2012 13:42

Agree Andu, thats sounds like a sure fire plan. Lets wait and see how many boats "sink" in the future. Perhaps a warning could be sent out..Australia has a finite number of rescue vessels, if too many boats start "sinking", we may not be able to find them all.

Andu 27th Jun 2012 22:04

Lets wait and see how many boats "sink" in the future.
(Yet) another one "in distress" this morning. They've discovered an excuse for arriving without documentation. "Lost my passport when the boat sank." (But I'll bet the money belt survives.)

Gillard is still playing politics. If she really wants to fix the problem (as she says she does) she'd have come up wit a plan acceptable to both major parties so they can bypass the crazy Watermelons in the Senate.

I'd be interested to see if Liberal backbencher Mal Washer survives pre-selection for his seat when the election is eventually called.

Buster Hyman 27th Jun 2012 23:43

So...let me get this straight...

When a new Govt. is formed, all the bad stuff gets blamed on the previous Govt. In the case of illegal immigrants, the policy was working until the current Govt. stuffed it all up. So, instead of being able to blame the Opposition for their past policy, she's blaming the Opposition for not fixing HER current problem.

Is that about right? Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?

Ovation 28th Jun 2012 00:05

There's another big player in this current fiasco, and that's the Indonesian authorities and government.

There is corruption in the military, police and immigration control that allows the illegal immigrants to pay the "unofficial tax" and they are waved through - and why should they care? They know full well these people are headed for Australia and if they can make a quid out of it, why not?

As well, the Gillard government is sh!t scared of the Indonesians and will not stand up to them on this issue.

Andu 28th Jun 2012 00:08

My only source for this is the Andrew Bolt bl*g, submitted by an anti Andrew Bolt/Liberal poster (pointing out the failures of the Howard/Abbott policies. If it's true, is it any wonder people get on boats to come here uninvited? The inmates really have taken over the asylum.

Eleven-year-old Iranian refugee boy, Shayan Badraie, who suffered psychological injuries during his time spent inside Australia’s immigration detention centres, will receive a Federal Government payout of AU$400,000 in compensation. The government will also pay his family’s legal bill of more than $1 million.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 00:20

Is that about right? Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?
I think so. Good, eh. :(
They refused to listen to their own departments on this. Senior staff from Immigration and Customs both warned them this would happen but they were ignored (and called 'turkeys' by Bob Brown at a later date; that's how much the respect The Greens have for border protection).

This is not a government that likes to listen to facts, bad news or anything that contradicts their happy-clappy world view. When it all goes wrong, their only MO seems to be to blame the opposition who never agreed with the policy in the first place. :ugh:

david1300 28th Jun 2012 00:35

Boat may have been sabotaged: Indonesia
An asylum-seeker boat which sunk en route to Australia was sabotaged by those aboard the vessel, a senior official with Indonesia's search and rescue agency says.
MORE than 120 asylum seekers have been rescued from the boat which capsized and then sank on Wednesday morning about 107 nautical miles north of Christmas Island.
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has confirmed that 123 people had been rescued.
The boat, which was believed to be carrying more than 130 asylum seekers, was in Indonesian waters when it sank.
But the head of operational control with Basarnas, the Indonesian search and rescue authority, told AAP that it was believed the boat had been sabotaged by those on board.
"As they're getting closer to Christmas Island, they made their boat look like they're about to sink," Agolo, who has only one name, said on Wednesday.

Rescue authorities had been told by those aboard the vessel that its generator had stopped working and that the boat had started taking on water.

"They probably feared that if the boat is still in good condition, they would be rejected and must sail back," Agolo said.
Two Australian naval vessels were assisting the rescue effort.
Three merchant vessels were also at the scene while an airforce P3 Orion plane was assisting the rescuers.
Indonesia had deployed a Hercules aircraft to help with the search and rescue operation.
The latest incident comes a week after an overcrowded boat capsized en route to Australia, leaving about 90 people dead.

Source: Boat may have been sabotaged: Indonesia | The Courier-Mail

david1300 28th Jun 2012 00:37

Too many police diverted to disasters: WA
Too many West Australian police officers are being diverted to assist with asylum-seeker boat disasters, the state government has complained.
POLICE Minister Rob Johnson told reporters in Perth on Wednesday border protection was a federal matter, and he would raise the issue with Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare when they meet on Thursday.
"It's a federal government issue, but we're seeing I think it's 26 police officers being diverted from their normal duties in WA to be able to deal with the problem, which is a federal government problem," Mr Johnson said.
"I'll be stressing that to Jason Clare tomorrow."
Police on Tuesday told AAP 26 officers had been deployed to Christmas Island, 1600km northwest of WA, including 12 detectives and eight forensics officers, as part of a disaster victim identification team.

Too many police diverted to disasters: WA | The Courier-Mail

allan907 28th Jun 2012 02:01

Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?
I think that they may well have learnt the old adage "when you're in a hole the best thing to do is to stop digging"

Ovation 28th Jun 2012 05:16

It may have escaped the attention of most observers, but the ALP have used Oakshott for their dirty work to table a "private members bill".

Remember when the High Court ruled the Malaysian Solution invalid? Gillard drew up the legislation to circumvent the court's decision but refused to table it in parliament because she knew the Greens would not support it. Her refusal allowed her then to disingenuously blame Abbott for it's failure, which has backfired in her face big time.

The primary reason for the government's failure on border protection is Gillard's pride and vanity. She dismantled a working model and created the monster that's so far killed some eight hundred people.

This debacle can be fixed overnight. Easily.

I know it, you know it, and I would guess most sensible and decent Australians know what has to happen.

Gillard knows it too, but would rather see innocent people drown than have to admit she's made a mistake.

Makes me ashamed to call myself an Australian.

Captain Sand Dune 28th Jun 2012 07:05

Perhaps a true believer could come back & set me straight?
The silence is deafening, isn't it?:E

Andu 28th Jun 2012 07:47

Here's a prediction: the solitary asylum seeker who was flown from Christmas Island to Perth in the chartered 737 will receive hundreds of thousands of dollars in compensation, paid by the Australian taxpayer, for the loss of his fingers as he escaped the "suddenly sinking" boat - and for the psychological damage he will sure as God made little apples be told by Julian Burnside and his ambulance-chasing lawyers that he suffered during his detention.

Is there anyone out there who believes this won't come to pass?

Secondly, does anyone know what's become of Capt Imad's wife and daughters? You know, the ones who lied in the applications for asylum?

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 08:15

SHY's cwying :{:}. Because The Greens' constant blocking of Labor's solution (which isn't much of a solution but at least it's something) is adding to the number of sinkings and resulting fatalities?

No, it's because of some fluffly story re a fifteen year old refugee who she doesn't appear to have even met. I wonder if she cries whenever there's an RSPCA ad on the telly; of course it wouldn't be a cheap political stunt designed to gain sympathy, at a time when increasing numbers of Australians are blaming The Greens for this stalemate...'don't blame me, I'm just a girl!' (Malibu Stacey) :hmm:

Sky News: Hanson-young reduced to tears on debate
Mind you, if I were a Greens MP I'd probably cry too...:}

Solid Rust Twotter 28th Jun 2012 08:57

Mmmm... Sounds like the current Oz immigration policy is actually quite a good thing for those of us who will probably end up washed ashore on Cottesloe beach in leaky boats when Zuma finally succeeds in dragging this place through his arsehole. Looking forward to all those lovely benefits and payouts.

One is being cynical BTW. Oz immigration policy has the appearance of not applying to those who will probably turn out not to be True Believers.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 09:20

One is being cynical BTW. Oz immigration policy has the appearance of not applying to those who will probably turn out not to be True Believers.
Possibly. However, we have had a large number of immigrants from South Africa and Zimbabwe in recent years. They're largely very welcome and more or less integrating, notwithstanding the weird looking curly snags and bags of dessicated beef. :}

Of course they all had to complete great wads of paperwork, move over with no guarantee of permanent residency and often engage immigration lawyers (at vast expense) to spend years securing a place.

This is what annoys people, particularly with respect to 'boat' people from countries like Pakistan that aren't on the refugee list. These are economic refugees rather than political refugees, but that fact gets lost in the tears and tantrums from our alleged leaders. Additionally, many of them swallow their documents and then claim to be from countries that are on the list, which is both deceptive and time consuming for the department to prove wrong. Often it's a bit like proving someone is from Saint George rather than Goondiwindi; you have to know who's running the servo this week and whether the pub still does dodgy rissoles on Fridays before you can ask the suspect person which town they're from and know the answer.

Back in Howard's day there were a number of alleged Afghan refugees (actually Pakistanis) who were initially accepted, only to be dropped in to Immigration by annoyed Afghans who were already in Australia. The legitimate Afghans were angry that people were claiming to be Afghan when they weren't, particularly when they were pulling all stops to get their own families out of a war zone and losing places to the fake refs.

What has become obvious is that our alleged leaders are incapable of having a rational, sensible discussion about the issue. For all the tears and tantrums we haven't heard much that's sensible or acknowledges the complex issues that surround immigration (in whatever form). They will have had briefings from Immigration, Customs and DFAT; they'll be aware of the problems but they don't want to deal with them. Why? It's not popular, doesn't win votes. The community's concerns are surprisingly bi-partisan, which doesn't help either party when it comes to the scrounge for votes.

What we are left with is more committees and undoubtedly more boats run by people who are out for a buck. Like the importation and distribution of narcotics, the pollies have shown they're incapable of sensible debate. It doesn't suit their goals. :ugh:

Solid Rust Twotter 28th Jun 2012 09:49

Ah, perhaps one should have clarified the issue by calling it Oz's more informal immigration policy. All that legal expense and paperwork doesn't appear to be necessary if one arrives in a leaky boat.

SOPS 28th Jun 2012 10:02

This really, really getting out of hand. The huggy fluff watermelons just want to open the doors and let them all in, Labor is too stubborn or stupid or both to admit they are wrong, the Libs want Naru (fair enough it worked).

So we end up with noone to doing anything and the leaky boats seem to be forming a queue from Jakarta to Christmas Island.:ugh::ugh:

david1300 28th Jun 2012 10:15

And this is probably reasonably reprsentative of what the public thinks of the current (now defeated in the Senate) legislation passed by the Lower House. Almost 3:1 disapproval:

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jun 2012 10:18

Correct. And 10 MPs from an extremist party who were elected by a small minority of voters (1 from the lower house and 9 from the upper house) can hold the process to ransom despite 149 MPs from the lower house and 67 from the upper house not agreeing with them, because those 149 and 67 can't get together, GTFU and work out a solution. Meanwhile, more drownings and more money in the pockets of the leaky boat owners. Guess SHYs not crying about that. :ugh:

I saw a smattering of soundbites from our 'leaders' on the various news reports; they're largely not worth feeding. Seriously, would anyone here either 1. employ any of 'em or 2. want to work with any of 'em? :hmm:

allan907 28th Jun 2012 11:57

Having watched the 7.30 Report the one thing that truly amazed me was the lack of people in the Senate while the 'debate' was taking place.

I suppose that it just goes to show that, despite the tears and posturing for the cameras most of the bastards don't give a fat rat's clacker for the problem - they've obviously got better things to do like clearing out the office shredder or sticking pins in effigies of old people and ex service people.

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