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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 8th Jul 2014 15:36

oicur

Re "article 31"

Australia excised territory from our immigration zone so Article 31 doesn't apply to the Islands.
And they will never set foot in Australia because a boat won't be allowed to get here.

In any case, Eff the UN, UNHRC, waste of space.

The best thing Abbott ever did was ignore the UN and UNHRC. They hate it
but they can't do a damn thing about it.

I do do research and note just media, or RW media.

500N 8th Jul 2014 15:48

oicur

I suppose you prefer letting the boats come (like Labor did) and have thousands of drownings ???

1500 deaths doesn't appall you ?
(It doesn't me but I don't have a huge amount of empathy).

Clare Prop 8th Jul 2014 16:22

Do you count the ten pound poms and all the displaced people who came after Ww2 as "boat peope"? To most people boat people refers to asylum seekers rather than people who arrived here with visas and it's a bit odd trying to lump them all in together.

Solid Rust Twotter 8th Jul 2014 16:32


.... not as if Timor was anywhere dangerous except for maybe a few Infantry blokes. As for the rest it was a jolly somewhere exotic and a medal and a badge at the end.
There were girlfriends/boyfriends/partners etc. waving their loved ones off from RAAF Richmond who were in tears about the dangers they were about to face in Timor. F.F.S. the biggest danger was driving from Sydney to Richmond !

Well, the hangovers in the Dengue Bar and the Monkey Bar were pretty ugly. No idea how I survived...:}

SOPS 8th Jul 2014 16:40

Ok now we have some trumped up POM, telling us how to run our country. They have made a total mess of theirs..complete with ' immigrants ' beheading a soldier on the street. For goodness sake...where does this crap stop.

Carbon tax repeal: UK politician Lord Deben attacks Tony Abbott's 'reckless' plan to scrap carbon tax - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

oicur12.again 8th Jul 2014 16:48

“Australia excised territory from our immigration zone so Article 31 doesn't apply to the Islands.”

The conduct of the Australian Government in these islands is appalling and illegal in many ways but Article 31 has much greater scope than simply an immigration zone.

Again, please do some study and come to the debate a little better prepared.

“The best thing Abbott ever did was ignore the UN and UNHRC.”

And now we get to the meat and potatoes of the argument. And that is the ball game. End of argument because we don’t like the rules so we are just going to ignore them. By doing so you are morally waving any right to seek protection from similar international law in the future. I hope you never need such protection.

“like Labor did”

Ahhhh, my apologies, I didn’t realize you were arguing as a partisan. You will notice I have not mentioned a single political party. My comments refer to the Australian Government whose actions have been illegal under both parties.

Anyone who thinks that the asylum seeker issue is anything other than wedge politics deserves to become a victim of the pathetic state that Australian politics has become.

500N 8th Jul 2014 17:17


other than wedge politics deserves to become a victim of the pathetic state that Australian politics has become.
Coming from someone in the US who doesn't have a funtioning Congress and where the President has to resort to Executive order, the above comment is a joke.

"because we don’t like the rules so we are just going to ignore them."

Obama does the same, as has the US in the past. In fact the US is one of the
worst countries for ignoring the rules.


I know Article 31 is more than that.

SOPS 8th Jul 2014 17:17

Wait a minute..we have a ' new joiner here' in oicuir.

Here as some facts. I have a disabled son.His pension from the Government is less than half of what a country shopper gets. He can't get a house, I am in the very fortunate position that I can support him, set him up in his own flat on our property at home...and when we get older make other arrangements.

But what I should have done, is taken him to Jakarta, put him in a stinking leaking boat, and given him Two Dads number on his sat phone

I pay huge taxes. They support my country. But I a m not paying huge taxes to support people arriving illegally from another country, when I can't get the support I need for myself.

Rant ove

500N 8th Jul 2014 17:44

oicur12.again

So are you saying we are not allowed to police our borders like the US polices the Mexico border ? Hardline ?

The US returns people to Mexico on a regular basis.

Oh, they are not refugees you say, but "illegal entrants".

Funny you should say that, they are the same as our one's,
trying to get entry to Australia via illegal means.

If Australia was the US, the response would be the same,
if not harder as it would be just like the Mexico border.

500N 8th Jul 2014 17:49

You seem to have the same problem and view Mexico differently
to other countries.

"U.S. judges have traditionally been tougher on Mexican asylum applicants than those from other countries.

Last year, only 49 of the Mexican applicants — or 2 percent of the total — were granted asylum. In contrast, judges gave asylum to 3,795 of China’s 10,087 applicants — nearly 38 percent. Judges also granted asylum to the majority of applicants from Armenia — 206 out of 232 applications."


We don't want to get like this.
"There are already 12 million Mexican nationals living in the United States
about half without papers, according to the Pew Hispanic Center."

500N 8th Jul 2014 17:56

oicur

We view our borders like the US General views the Mexican border.

Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now ‘Existential’ Threat to U.S.

Top General Says Mexico Border Security Now ?Existential? Threat to U.S. - Defense One

500N 8th Jul 2014 18:40

Even more reason not to land them anywhere but return them. This is crazy.

A wave of attempted suicides has swept Christmas Island as 12 mothers tried to kill themselves in the belief their then-orphaned children would have to be settled in Australia.


Fairfax Media has spoken with three independent sources who confirmed the women tried to end their lives after being told they would be taken to Nauru or Manus Island, believing their children would have a better chance of living in Australia if they were dead.



oicur12.again 8th Jul 2014 20:54

“Coming from someone in the US”

A resident of the US, yes. But I am as ozzie as the Kingswood my Grandpa used to drive.

“I have a disabled son.His pension from the Government is less than half of what a country shopper gets”.

Plain and simply incorrect. Very incorrect. I would be very interested to hear where exactly you are getting your numbers from particularly in light of the fact that the Government does not pay asylum seekers a pension.

“But I a m not paying huge taxes to support people arriving illegally from another country”

I don’t want to pay huge taxes to provide funding for the industrial military complex either but I don’t get to choose and neither do you.

Further more, an asylum seeker is NOT arriving illegally.

“So are you saying we are not allowed to police our borders”

Wow, you nearly tripped me up there with your complex web of words. No, I am not suggesting this at all. Australia has a right to police its borders with nuclear tipped rubber band guns if it chooses to. But its legal obligation towards the processing of asylum seekers has nothing to do with border control.

CoodaShooda 8th Jul 2014 20:55

Oicur

A question (or several), if I may.

This 'white Aussies are boat people line' seems to be trotted out regularly by those supporting the opening of our borders to economic 'refugees'.

At what point does a family become indigenous to their native land?

In my case, other than having a maternal grandfather who, admittedly, came by ship from Ireland, I am 7th generation Australian born. Am I Irish, English or, as I describe myself and pay taxes to, Australian?

My children, however, have a mother who was born in Finland - although she and her parents arrived here legally by air. Are they Finnish or Australian?

I have Aboriginal friends. The archeological record suggests their ancestors arrived in Australia following a sea voyage from Indonesia 40,000 years ago and displaced a different race of people already living here. Are my friends indigenous Australian or Indonesian?

500N 8th Jul 2014 21:00

1st source

while the payment for a single asylum seeker made by the Red Cross is around $442 per fortnight, or about 55% of the payments made to pensioners.

2nd source
Services provided include:
  • ongoing and intensive case work support
  • arrangement of healthcare appointments
  • financial allowance to help cover basic living expenses (equivalent to 89 per cent of DHS Special Benefit, that is, $438.41) and, where applicable, rent assistance (89 per cent of DHS Rent Assistance, that is, $71.79)
  • financial assistance for general and emergency health care as well as pharmaceuticals
  • referrals to counselling, material aid such as clothing and furniture, education, social activities and legal services.[42]"


3rd source as a cross check
"According to today’s Newstart Payment Rates, that means an eligible single asylum seeker with no child receives $439 per fortnight and $474 for an adult with a single dependent child. The Parliamentary Library study summary continues,"




500N 8th Jul 2014 21:04

Funnily enough, it is NOT just "White" as in Aussies, Ex pat poms,
Greeks, Italians, Maltese etc al, who came here legally through the
normal migration channels feel the same way.

If they didn't, Abbott would mot have been elected.

I can't speak for other nationalities !

owen meaney 8th Jul 2014 21:21

Oh, i cu are12. Again
Very valid points brought to the discussion.
You will note that the Australian High Court also has doubts about the legality of what is occurring with offshore refugee status.

The issue with asylum seekers/country seekers will be an ongoing problem, to which I do not have an answer.

Coodashooda,
the replacement theory in paleolithic australia is no longer prominent, as the latest Denisovan geneotype shows.

$474 for an adult with a single dependent child.
Far too generous,500N, all that extra money($40) to feed and clothe just one child

Edit: Pedigree :German, Anglo, Irish, and 1/16th Warlpiri of Tennant Creek

7x7 8th Jul 2014 22:15

Careful, gents. One of the Usual Suspects is back, quite possibly with the same intention in mind as he and his mates had the last time(s) - getting this thread binned by the moderators.

As for mothers attempting to commit suicide "because they feared for the future for the children" - the operative word there is "attempted". Or, to put it another way: attempted suicide; my arse. Attempted attention-getting; yes.

I would expect that currently, there are a couple of those "expensive" life boats being taken up to the Triton. Just in case they're needed.

500N 8th Jul 2014 22:18


Careful, gents. One of the Usual Suspects is back, quite possibly with the same intention in mind as he and his mates had the last time(s) - getting this thread binned by the moderators.
Agree, which is why I kept it robust but clean.

I might temper the robustness. :O

bosnich71 8th Jul 2014 22:27

I'm not a "boat person". I came by aeroplane at the invitation of the Australian Government.


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